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FW: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

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  • Anthony Austin
    I declare an interest: as a resident of Millennium Quay I fully approve of these proposed chicanes on the Thames Path to deter motor cyclists and will say so
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 11, 2011
    Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

    I declare an interest: as a resident of Millennium Quay I fully approve of these proposed chicanes on the Thames Path to deter motor cyclists and will say so as an individual.

    I’ll be glad to hear of any other views on the issue to report back to the Council before Sept 2, i.e. before our next regular meeting.

    Anthony

     


    From: Liliana Guzman [mailto:Liliana.Guzman@...]
    Sent: 11 August 2011 13:43
    To: Austin970@...
    Subject: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

     

    Dear Mr Austin

    Please find attached consultation letter and plan for a proposed chicane on the Thames Path.

    <<Consultation Mr Austin.pdf>> <<General Arrangement Plan.pdf>>

    Regards
    Liliana Guzman
    Traffic Engineer
    Traffic Directorate of Regeneration, Enterprise & Skills
    48 Woolwich New Road
    London SE18 6HQ
    Tel: 020 8921 6114
    Fax: 020 8921 5282

     


    This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Greenwich Council reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks, in accordance with legislation.

    Greenwich Council has scanned this e-mail for viruses but does not accept any responsibility once this e-mail has been transmitted. You should scan attachments (if any) for viruses.

    Greenwich Council can be contacted by telephone on +44 (0) 20 8854 8888


    Destination Greenwich - Host borough for 2012

  • Mark PHC
    I don t live at Millennium Quay but I do use the Thames Path and I don t support any type of barrier anywhere on a cycle route. If there is a problem with
    Message 2 of 8 , Aug 11, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      I don't live at Millennium Quay but I do use the Thames Path and I don't support any type of barrier anywhere on a cycle route. If there is a problem with motorbikes, that is a matter for the police. You cannot design them out - it doesn't work. In my experience, the police are incredibly lazy when it comes to anti-social behaviour, wrongly thinking it is a matter for the council to resolve. It's not - illegal activity absolutely has to be dealt with by the police and if that means getting out from behind a desk to apprehend those responsible then that's what they have to do. Traditionally, motorbikes on cycle paths are ridden by local people. Someone will know who they are - it won't be as hard as finding Lord Lucan. Even the Met should be able to deal with it.

      I fully expect to be able to use the Thames Path on my trike, towing a trailer or a tag-a-long, riding a tandem, pushing a double child buggy or heaven forbid, in a mobility scooter. All of those won't be possible with a chicane without a supreme effort to get past. Any barrier, even a chicane, will reduce footfall because even joggers don't like dancing through them and all the above mentioned contraptions will struggle to get through. Decreased footfall increases anti-social behaviour. That's a fact.

      By all means support this as a resident if you honestly think that is the right thing to do but please don't support barriering a cycle route on behalf of a cycle organisation. Sustrans have reports on why this idea is completely wrong.

      Mark


      On 11 August 2011 20:18, Anthony Austin <austin970@...> wrote:
       
      [Attachment(s) from Anthony Austin included below]

      I declare an interest: as a resident of Millennium Quay I fully approve of these proposed chicanes on the Thames Path to deter motor cyclists and will say so as an individual.

      I’ll be glad to hear of any other views on the issue to report back to the Council before Sept 2, i.e. before our next regular meeting.

      Anthony

       


      From: Liliana Guzman [mailto:Liliana.Guzman@...]
      Sent: 11 August 2011 13:43
      To: Austin970@...
      Subject: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

       

      Dear Mr Austin

      Please find attached consultation letter and plan for a proposed chicane on the Thames Path.

      <<Consultation Mr Austin.pdf>> <<General Arrangement Plan.pdf>>

      Regards
      Liliana Guzman
      Traffic Engineer
      Traffic Directorate of Regeneration, Enterprise & Skills
      48 Woolwich New Road
      London SE18 6HQ
      Tel: 020 8921 6114
      Fax: 020 8921 5282

       


      This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Greenwich Council reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks, in accordance with legislation.

      Greenwich Council has scanned this e-mail for viruses but does not accept any responsibility once this e-mail has been transmitted. You should scan attachments (if any) for viruses.

      Greenwich Council can be contacted by telephone on +44 (0) 20 8854 8888


      Destination Greenwich - Host borough for 2012


    • Francis Sedgemore
      I object, for the same reasons as does Mark of Pollards Hill Cyclists. Chicanes will not solve the problem, and will only make life more difficult for
      Message 3 of 8 , Aug 11, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I object, for the same reasons as does Mark of Pollards Hill Cyclists. Chicanes will not solve the problem, and will only make life more difficult for legitimate users of the Thames Path. Likewise, the proliferation of speed humps on roads is not changing the behaviour of drivers, other than to encourage many to brake hard before and speed up sharply after encountering the obstructions.

        As behavioural engineering the approach is somewhat lacking. And unimaginative.

        Instead I propose robot snipers operating out of Millennium Quay. You know it makes sense.

        Francis

        -- 
        Dr Francis Sedgemore
        journalist and science writer

        On 11 Aug 2011, at 20:18, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

         

        I declare an interest: as a resident of Millennium Quay I fully approve of these proposed chicanes on the Thames Path to deter motor cyclists and will say so as an individual.

        I’ll be glad to hear of any other views on the issue to report back to the Council before Sept 2, i.e. before our next regular meeting.

        Anthony

         


        From: Liliana Guzman [mailto:Liliana.Guzman@...]
        Sent: 11 August 2011 13:43
        To: Austin970@...
        Subject: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

         

        Dear Mr Austin

        Please find attached consultation letter and plan for a proposed chicane on the Thames Path.

        <<Consultation Mr Austin.pdf>> <<General Arrangement Plan.pdf>>

        Regards
        Liliana Guzman
        Traffic Engineer
        Traffic Directorate of Regeneration, Enterprise & Skills
        48 Woolwich New Road
        London SE18 6HQ
        Tel: 020 8921 6114
        Fax: 020 8921 5282

         


        This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Greenwich Council reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks, in accordance with legislation.

        Greenwich Council has scanned this e-mail for viruses but does not accept any responsibility once this e-mail has been transmitted. You should scan attachments (if any) for viruses.

        Greenwich Council can be contacted by telephone on +44 (0) 20 8854 8888


        Destination Greenwich - Host borough for 2012

      • Roger Stocker
        Well this will use up Greenwich’s cycling budget for the year – new tactiles (which must be wrong as this you nee corduroy to indicate shared use which is
        Message 4 of 8 , Aug 11, 2011
        • 0 Attachment

          Well this will use up Greenwich’s cycling budget for the year – new tactiles (which must be wrong as this you nee corduroy to indicate shared use which is what the part by the barriers is), green antiskid (WHY WHY WHY) and expensive barriers – all on a off road section of an established cycle route which for most of its length is shared use anyway. Gaps of only 1.2 m and it doesn’t show the gap between barriers – certainly not enough room for a bike with trailer or mobility vehicle (forget about trikes). No tto mention at least £500 to design such rubbish. Most likely full cost will be around £5k. Recession, what recession? All should object and ask if this is a high priority for the authority and what cost benefits the scheme delivery will bring.

           

          I am still amazed that boroughs are continuing to design such rubbish.

           

          I don’t like it.

           

          Roger

           


          From: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Austin
          Sent: 11 August 2011 20:18
          To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [greenwichcyclists] FW: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation [2 Attachments]

           

           

          I declare an interest: as a resident of Millennium Quay I fully approve of these proposed chicanes on the Thames Path to deter motor cyclists and will say so as an individual.

          I’ll be glad to hear of any other views on the issue to report back to the Council before Sept 2, i.e. before our next regular meeting.

          Anthony

           


          From: Liliana Guzman [mailto:Liliana.Guzman@...]
          Sent: 11 August 2011 13:43
          To: Austin970@...
          Subject: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

           

          Dear Mr Austin

          Please find attached consultation letter and plan for a proposed chicane on the Thames Path.

          <<Consultation Mr Austin.pdf>> <<General Arrangement Plan.pdf>>

          Regards
          Liliana Guzman
          Traffic Engineer
          Traffic Directorate of Regeneration, Enterprise & Skills
          48 Woolwich New Road
          London SE18 6HQ
          Tel: 020 8921 6114
          Fax: 020 8921 5282

           


          This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Greenwich Council reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks, in accordance with legislation.

          Greenwich Council has scanned this e-mail for viruses but does not accept any responsibility once this e-mail has been transmitted. You should scan attachments (if any) for viruses.

          Greenwich Council can be contacted by telephone on +44 (0) 20 8854 8888


          Destination Greenwich - Host borough for 2012

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        • Anthony Austin
          Thanks to All, I will represent all your views verbatim on behalf of Greenwich Cyclists, and any others which land before Sept 2. Anthony _____ From:
          Message 5 of 8 , Aug 12, 2011
          • 0 Attachment

            Thanks to All,

            I will represent all your views verbatim on behalf of Greenwich Cyclists, and any others which land before Sept 2.

            Anthony

             


            From: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Francis Sedgemore
            Sent: 11 August 2011 21:23
            To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] FW: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

             

             

            I object, for the same reasons as does Mark of Pollards Hill Cyclists. Chicanes will not solve the problem, and will only make life more difficult for legitimate users of the Thames Path. Likewise, the proliferation of speed humps on roads is not changing the behaviour of drivers, other than to encourage many to brake hard before and speed up sharply after encountering the obstructions.

             

            As behavioural engineering the approach is somewhat lacking. And unimaginative.

             

            Instead I propose robot snipers operating out of Millennium Quay. You know it makes sense.

             

            Francis


            -- 

            Dr Francis Sedgemore

            journalist and science writer


            On 11 Aug 2011, at 20:18, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

             

            I declare an interest: as a resident of Millennium Quay I fully approve of these proposed chicanes on the Thames Path to deter motor cyclists and will say so as an individual.

            I’ll be glad to hear of any other views on the issue to report back to the Council before Sept 2, i.e. before our next regular meeting.

            Anthony

             


            From: Liliana Guzman [mailto:Liliana.Guzman@...]
            Sent: 11 August 2011 13:43
            To: Austin970@...
            Subject: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

             

            Dear Mr Austin

            Please find attached consultation letter and plan for a proposed chicane on the Thames Path.

            <<Consultation Mr Austin.pdf>> <<General Arrangement Plan.pdf>>

            Regards
            Liliana Guzman
            Traffic Engineer
            Traffic Directorate of Regeneration, Enterprise & Skills
            48 Woolwich New Road
            London SE18 6HQ
            Tel: 020 8921 6114
            Fax: 020 8921 5282

             


            This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Greenwich Council reserves the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks, in accordance with legislation.

            Greenwich Council has scanned this e-mail for viruses but does not accept any responsibility once this e-mail has been transmitted. You should scan attachments (if any) for viruses.

            Greenwich Council can be contacted by telephone on +44 (0) 20 8854 8888


            Destination Greenwich - Host borough for 2012

          • Stephen Craven
            Anthony I don t get attachments via the Yahoo group for some reason. Could you e-mail me the attachments directly please. Stephen ... From: Anthony Austin
            Message 6 of 8 , Aug 12, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Anthony

              I don't get attachments via the Yahoo group for some reason. Could you
              e-mail me the attachments directly please.

              Stephen

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...>
              To: <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:18 PM
              Subject: [greenwichcyclists] FW: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation
              [2 Attachments]


              I declare an interest: as a resident of Millennium Quay I fully approve of
              these proposed chicanes on the Thames Path to deter motor cyclists and will
              say so as an individual.

              I'll be glad to hear of any other views on the issue to report back to the
              Council before Sept 2, i.e. before our next regular meeting.

              Anthony



              _____

              From: Liliana Guzman [mailto:Liliana.Guzman@...]
              Sent: 11 August 2011 13:43
              To: Austin970@...
              Subject: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation



              Dear Mr Austin

              Please find attached consultation letter and plan for a proposed chicane on
              the Thames Path.

              <<Consultation Mr Austin.pdf>> <<General Arrangement Plan.pdf>>

              Regards
              Liliana Guzman
              Traffic Engineer
              Traffic Directorate of Regeneration, Enterprise & Skills
              48 Woolwich New Road
              London SE18 6HQ
              Tel: 020 8921 6114
              Fax: 020 8921 5282



              _____

              This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
              confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
              confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If
              you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
              copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
              sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,
              print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended
              recipient. Greenwich Council reserves the right to monitor all e-mail
              communications through its networks, in accordance with legislation.

              Greenwich Council has scanned this e-mail for viruses but does not accept
              any responsibility once this e-mail has been transmitted. You should scan
              attachments (if any) for viruses.

              Greenwich Council can be contacted by telephone on +44 (0) 20 8854 8888

              _____

              Destination Greenwich - Host borough for 2012
            • Danny Gazzi
              FAO Anthony Austin, Anthony, Further to you request of 11th August for any further views on these proposed chicanes in the Thames Path, I just wish to say that
              Message 7 of 8 , Aug 29, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Greenwich UK London cyclists

                FAO Anthony Austin,

                 

                Anthony,

                 

                Further to you request of 11th August for any further views on these proposed chicanes in the Thames Path, I just wish to say that I am also totally opposed to this type of barrier.  I agree with every word that Mark PHC wrote, below.

                 

                I am able bodied, and have a normal touring bike, but I often struggle at barriers, sometimes because my panniers foul them, and sometimes because of other design faults.  For cyclists with mobility problems, cyclists with trailers, tricycle users, or families with children out cycling, they would be even worse.

                 

                Thanks for presenting our views.

                 

                Danny

                 

                From: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com]
                Sent: 12 August 2011 09:37
                To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Digest Number 3060[2 Attachments]

                 

                Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)

                Messages

                1a.

                FW: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

                Posted by: "Anthony Austin" austin970@...   anthony63158

                Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:19 pm (PDT)

                [Attachment(s) from Anthony Austin included below]

                I declare an interest: as a resident of Millennium Quay I fully approve of
                these proposed chicanes on the Thames Path to deter motor cyclists and will
                say so as an individual.

                I'll be glad to hear of any other views on the issue to report back to the
                Council before Sept 2, i.e. before our next regular meeting.

                Anthony


                1b.



                I don't live at Millennium Quay but I do use the Thames Path and I don't
                support any type of barrier anywhere on a cycle route. If there is a problem
                with motorbikes, that is a matter for the police. You cannot design them out
                - it doesn't work. In my experience, the police are incredibly lazy when it
                comes to anti-social behaviour, wrongly thinking it is a matter for the
                council to resolve. It's not - illegal activity absolutely has to be dealt
                with by the police and if that means getting out from behind a desk to
                apprehend those responsible then that's what they have to do. Traditionally,
                motorbikes on cycle paths are ridden by local people. Someone will know who
                they are - it won't be as hard as finding Lord Lucan. Even the Met should be
                able to deal with it.

                I fully expect to be able to use the Thames Path on my trike, towing a
                trailer or a tag-a-long, riding a tandem, pushing a double child buggy or
                heaven forbid, in a mobility scooter. All of those won't be possible with a
                chicane without a supreme effort to get past. Any barrier, even a chicane,
                will reduce footfall because even joggers don't like dancing through them
                and all the above mentioned contraptions will struggle to get through.
                Decreased footfall increases anti-social behaviour. That's a fact.

                By all means support this as a resident if you honestly think that is the
                right thing to do but please don't support barriering a cycle route on
                behalf of a cycle organisation. Sustrans have reports on why this idea is
                completely wrong.

                Mark

                1c.

                Re: FW: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation [2 Attachments]

                Posted by: "Francis Sedgemore" francis@...   francissedgemore

                Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:22 pm (PDT)



                I object, for the same reasons as does Mark of Pollards Hill Cyclists. Chicanes will not solve the problem, and will only make life more difficult for legitimate users of the Thames Path. Likewise, the proliferation of speed humps on roads is not changing the behaviour of drivers, other than to encourage many to brake hard before and speed up sharply after encountering the obstructions.

                As behavioural engineering the approach is somewhat lacking. And unimaginative.

                Instead I propose robot snipers operating out of Millennium Quay. You know it makes sense.

                Francis

                --
                Dr Francis Sedgemore
                journalist and science writer
                www.sedgemore.com


                (5)

                1d.

                Re: FW: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation [2 Attachments]

                Posted by: "Roger Stocker" rgstocker@...   rgstocker

                Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:39 pm (PDT)



                Well this will use up Greenwich’s cycling budget for the year – new tactiles
                (which must be wrong as this you nee corduroy to indicate shared use which
                is what the part by the barriers is), green antiskid (WHY WHY WHY) and
                expensive barriers – all on a off road section of an established cycle route
                which for most of its length is shared use anyway. Gaps of only 1.2 m and it
                doesn’t show the gap between barriers – certainly not enough room for a bike
                with trailer or mobility vehicle (forget about trikes). No tto mention at
                least £500 to design such rubbish. Most likely full cost will be around £5k.
                Recession, what recession? All should object and ask if this is a high
                priority for the authority and what cost benefits the scheme delivery will
                bring.

                I am still amazed that boroughs are continuing to design such rubbish.

                I don’t like it.

                Roger


                (5)

                1e.

                Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

                Posted by: "Anthony Austin" austin970@...   anthony63158

                Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:35 am (PDT)



                Thanks to All,

                I will represent all your views verbatim on behalf of Greenwich Cyclists,
                and any others which land before Sept 2.

                Anthony


              • Anthony Austin
                Liliana, Greenwich Cyclists in general oppose the proposed chicane at Millennium Quay, and make the following points: The Thames Path should be accessible to
                Message 8 of 8 , Aug 30, 2011
                • 0 Attachment

                   

                  Liliana,

                  Greenwich Cyclists in general oppose the proposed chicane at Millennium Quay, and make the following points:

                   

                  The Thames Path should be accessible to people on a trike, towing a trailer or a tag-a-long, riding a tandem, pushing a double child buggy or a mobility scooter. All of those won't be possible with a chicane without a supreme effort to get past. Any barrier, even a chicane, will reduce footfall because even joggers don't like dancing through them.

                   

                  If there is a problem with motorbikes, that is a matter for the police.

                   

                  Chicanes will not solve the problem, and will only make life more difficult for legitimate users of the Thames Path. As behavioural engineering the approach is somewhat lacking and unimaginative.

                   

                  This will use up Greenwich's cycling budget for the year - new tactiles (which must be wrong as you need corduroy to indicate shared use which is what the part by the barriers is), green antiskid and expensive barriers - all on a off-road section of an established cycle route which for most of its length is shared use anyway. The proposal has gaps of only 1.2 m and it doesn't show the gap between barriers - certainly not enough room for a bike with trailer or mobility vehicle (forget about trikes).

                   

                  Any chicane should be designed so it can be used by a bike with a baby trailer reasonably easily, a bike with a luggage trailer, a tandem, a recumbent bike, and a mobility scooter. I also wonder if it can be designed so that a tricycle can get through.

                   

                  Siting the barrier on a blind bend is more likely to lead to conflict. Why not at the very start of the path or along the straight section? This design is difficult for tandems, tagalongs etc - why not the sort that sorts pedal cycles from motborbikes by restricting width at the axle?.

                   

                  Cyclists often struggle at barriers, sometimes because their panniers foul them, and sometimes because of other design faults.  For cyclists with mobility problems, cyclists with trailers, tricycle users, or families with children out cycling, they would be even worse."

                   

                  Kind regards

                   

                  Anthony Austin

                   

                   

                   

                    _____

                   

                  From: Liliana Guzman [mailto:Liliana.Guzman@...]

                  Sent: 11 August 2011 13:43

                  To: Austin970@...

                  Subject: Thames Path Proposed Chicane - Consultation

                   

                   

                   

                  Dear Mr Austin

                   

                  Please find attached consultation letter and plan for a proposed chicane on

                  the Thames Path.

                   

                  <<Consultation Mr Austin.pdf>> <<General Arrangement Plan.pdf>>

                   

                  Regards

                  Liliana Guzman

                  Traffic Engineer

                  Traffic Directorate of Regeneration, Enterprise & Skills

                  48 Woolwich New Road

                  London SE18 6HQ

                  Tel: 020 8921 6114

                  Fax: 020 8921 5282

                   

                   

                   

                    _____

                   

                  This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain

                  confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information.  No

                  confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.  If

                  you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all

                  copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the

                  sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,

                  print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended

                  recipient. Greenwich Council reserves the right to monitor all e-mail

                  communications through its networks, in accordance with legislation.

                   

                  Greenwich Council has scanned this e-mail for viruses but does not accept

                  any responsibility once this e-mail has been transmitted. You should scan

                  attachments (if any) for viruses.

                   

                  Greenwich Council can be contacted by telephone on +44 (0) 20 8854 8888

                   

                    _____

                   

                  Destination Greenwich - Host borough for 2012

                   

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