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Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

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  • Anthony Austin
    Hurrah, this is what we ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course. Please reply individually with your views, as below. From: Jade
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013

    Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

    Please reply individually with your views, as below.

     

    From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
    Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
    To: Anthony Austin
    Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

     

    Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

    Our Ref:  1000001337

     

    Dear Anthony

     

    On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

     

    I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

     

    Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

     

    If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

     

     

    Kind Regards

     

    Jade Berman

    Senior Traffic Order Maker

     

    t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
    f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

     

    Project Centre

    Level 4 Westgate House

    Westgate, London

    W5 1YY

     

    NEW PCL logo_landscape_email 2_CMYK

    www.projectcentre.co.uk

     

     



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  • Mark Etherington
    This is the best scheme for people on bikes I ve seen come out of RBG. Hurrah for the Greenwich road engineers who have come up with something better than the
    Message 2 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
      This is the best scheme for people on bikes I've seen come out of RBG. Hurrah for the Greenwich road engineers who have come up with something better than the usual tat we've seen in the past.

      Some initial observations:

      Can I celebrate the 2.0m cycle lanes, that don't disappear at pedestrian crossings, roundabouts and junctions? 1.5m is the minimum width, but it's great to see the council engineers go wider where space allows.

      The solid white lines indicating mandatory cycle lanes are again a sign of cyclists getting better status as road users, but it's a shame in a location such as this where this so much space that the designers haven't gone for a fully segregated lane with a kerb between the cycle lane and motor traffic. This is the sort of place where full segregation is most beneficial, with high traffic volumes and high traffic speeds.

      If not a full kerb, why not armadillos?


      This is relatively light segregation (and cheap!), but would discourage drivers from driving or parking in the cycle lane (as so often happens, even in mandatory cycle lanes).

      Now for a real bête noire: cycle lanes that stop at bus stops. If you stuck behind a bus on a bike you have two options: to sit behind the bus breathing in its fumes until it's ready to go (no fun), or pulling out into the general traffic to get past the bus, ideally before the bus starts moving (no fun either).

      We know that better options exist:


      On a very wide road such as this, floating bus stops that allow cyclists to pass behind the bus stop unimpeded by stationary buses would seem to be a no-brainer. True, this is relatively avant garde road infrastructure for Britain, but it is being installed elsewhere: Royal College Street (albeit not very well) and CS2X between Bow and Stratford. If Camden and Newham can have this kind of infrastructure, why not Greenwich?

      Of course we may get floating bus stops down this section when CS4 comes through, but it seems a shame to have to re-do the work at additional public expense late when we could simply do it now.

      A couple of other things:

      How wide is the existing cycle lane going west down Woolwich Road? I see the proposed scheme leaves much of it untouched, and I was wondering if it was 2.0m or 1.5m. The cycle lane also turns into bus lane on the approach to the junction with Charlton Church Street, which is not ideal. There's loads of road width here, so it's a shame none of it is being allocated towards a westbound cycle lane.

      The proposed ASL on Anchor and Hope Lane approaching Woolwich Road has no cycle lane feeder. This is another bête noire of mine, as shuffling in between motor vehicles to try to reach the bike box is another no-fun activity and is also potentially dangerous. Anchor and Hope Lane is super-wide at this point, so is it really impossible to come up with a bit of cycle lane here?

      Overall score: C+. Not bad, but with a little extra effort could do much better.


      Mark


      On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

       

      Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

      Please reply individually with your views, as below.

       

      From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@projectcentre.co.uk]
      Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
      To: Anthony Austin
      Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

       

      Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

      Our Ref:  1000001337

       

      Dear Anthony

       

      On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

       

      I attach, for your informatio n, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

       

      Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

       

      If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

       

       

      Kind Regards

       

      Jade Berman

      Senior Traffic Order Maker

       

      t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
      f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

       

      Project Centre

      Level 4 Westgate House

      Westgate, London

      W5 1YY

       

      <image001.jpg>

      www.projectcentre.co.uk

       

       



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    • Bob Walkden
      What is a mandatory cycle lane? B ... What is a mandatory cycle lane? B On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, Anthony Austin wrote: Hurrah,
      Message 3 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
        What is a mandatory cycle lane?

        B

        On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

         

        Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

        Please reply individually with your views, as below.

         

        From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
        Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
        To: Anthony Austin
        Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

         

        Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

        Our Ref:  1000001337

         

        Dear Anthony

         

        On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

         

        I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

         

        Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

         

        If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

         

         

        Kind Regards

         

        Jade Berman

        Senior Traffic Order Maker

         

        t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
        f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

         

        Project Centre

        Level 4 Westgate House

        Westgate, London

        W5 1YY

         

        <image001.jpg>

        < span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:black;">www.projectcentre.co.uk

         

         



        Follow ProjectCentreUK on TwitterView Project Centre's
profile on LinkedIn


        PROJECT  CENTRE  LTD.  DISCLAIMER

        This e-mail, and any attachments hereto, are intended for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged material and confidential information that is exempt from disclosure by law.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited and you must not read, use or take any action in reliance on it.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the Sender by telephone
        0844 870 7070
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        Project Centre Limited registered office -
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        Registered in England and Wales.
        Registered Number - 2625312.

      • Nick Williams
        Good question. I am happy to support segregated provision where that s useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy
        Message 4 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013

          Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 

           

          If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 

           

          Have I misunderstood?

           

          N


           

          To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
          From: bobwalkden@...
          Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
          Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

           
          What is a mandatory cycle lane?

          B

          On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

           


          Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

          Please reply individually with your views, as below.

           

          From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
          Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
          To: Anthony Austin
          Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

           

          Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

          Our Ref:  1000001337

           

          Dear Anthony

           

          On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

           

          I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

           

          Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

           

          If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

           

           

          Kind Regards

           

          Jade Berman

          Senior Traffic Order Maker

           

          t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
          f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

           

          Project Centre

          Level 4 Westgate House

          Westgate, London

          W5 1YY

           

          <image001.jpg>

          < span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:black;">www.projectcentre.co.uk

           

           



          Follow ProjectCentreUK on TwitterView Project Centre's   profile on LinkedIn


          PROJECT  CENTRE  LTD.  DISCLAIMER

          This e-mail, and any attachments hereto, are intended for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged material and confidential information that is exempt from disclosure by law.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited and you must not read, use or take any action in reliance on it.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the Sender by telephone
          0844 870 7070
          and permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and destroy any print-out hereto.
          Project Centre Limited registered office -
          4th Floor, Westgate House, Westgate, London W5 1YY.
          Registered in England and Wales.
          Registered Number - 2625312.


        • Roger Stocker
          Yes you have misunderstood. A mandatory cycle lane is for pedal cycles only and motor are not allowed to cross the solid line , (can be time limited though).
          Message 5 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013

            Yes you have misunderstood. A mandatory cycle lane is for pedal cycles only and motor are not allowed to cross the solid line , (can be time limited though). This includes parking and doesn't need yellow lines either. I bet most drivers wouldn't know that. Cyclists do NOT have to use it so its not that sort of mandatory. It would be better if segregated as motor traffic speeds feel high (and no doubt are). Ideal trial of armadillo type objects. These facilities are not often enforced.
            Roger

            On Aug 29, 2013 7:46 PM, "Nick Williams" <bikepest@...> wrote:
             

            Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 

             

            If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 

             

            Have I misunderstood?

             

            N


             

            To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
            From: bobwalkden@...
            Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
            Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

             
            What is a mandatory cycle lane?

            B

            On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

             


            Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

            Please reply individually with your views, as below.

             

            From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
            Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
            To: Anthony Austin
            Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

             

            Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

            Our Ref:  1000001337

             

            Dear Anthony

             

            On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

             

            I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

             

            Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

             

            If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

             

             

            Kind Regards

             

            Jade Berman

            Senior Traffic Order Maker

             

            t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
            f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

             

            Project Centre

            Level 4 Westgate House

            Westgate, London

            W5 1YY

             

            <image001.jpg>

            < span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:black;">www.projectcentre.co.uk

             

             



            Follow ProjectCentreUK on TwitterView Project Centre's   profile on LinkedIn


            PROJECT  CENTRE  LTD.  DISCLAIMER

            This e-mail, and any attachments hereto, are intended for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged material and confidential information that is exempt from disclosure by law.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited and you must not read, use or take any action in reliance on it.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the Sender by telephone
            0844 870 7070
            and permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and destroy any print-out hereto.
            Project Centre Limited registered office -
            4th Floor, Westgate House, Westgate, London W5 1YY.
            Registered in England and Wales.
            Registered Number - 2625312.


          • Mark Etherington
            The significance of mandatory versus advisory cycle lanes (solid versus dashed lines) is purely to the motorist, not the cyclist. It is (generally speaking) an
            Message 6 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
              The significance of mandatory versus advisory cycle lanes (solid versus dashed lines) is purely to the motorist, not the cyclist. It is (generally speaking) an offence for a motorist to cross the solid line of a mandatory lane, whereas an advisory lane has less legal force.

              It's up to the cyclist whether to use the cycle lane or not.


              On 29 Aug 2013, at 19:45, Nick Williams <bikepest@...> wrote:

               

              Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 

               

              If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 

               

              Have I misunderstood?

               

              N


               

              To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
              From: bobwalkden@...
              Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
              Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

               
              What is a mandatory cycle lane?

              B

              On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

               


              Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

              Please reply individually with your views, as below.

               

              From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
              Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
              To: Anthony Austin
              Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

               

              Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

              Our Ref:  1000001337

               

              Dear Anthony

               

              On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

               

              I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

               

              Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

               

              If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

               

               

              Kind Regards

               

              Jade Berman

              Senior Traffic Order Maker

               

              t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
              f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

               

              Project Centre

              Level 4 Westgate House

              Westgate, London

              W5 1YY

               

              <image001.jpg>

              < span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:black;">www.projectcentre.co.uk

               

               



              Follow ProjectCentreUK on TwitterView Project Centre's   profile on LinkedIn


              PROJECT  CENTRE  LTD.  DISCLAIMER

              This e-mail, and any attachments hereto, are intended for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged material and confidential information that is exempt from disclosure by law.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited and you must not read, use or take any action in reliance on it.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the Sender by telephone
              0844 870 7070
              and permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and destroy any print-out hereto.
              Project Centre Limited registered office -
              4th Floor, Westgate House, Westgate, London W5 1YY.
              Registered in England and Wales.
              Registered Number - 2625312.


            • Bob Walkden
              That s fine, thanks for letting us know. I wouldn t support anything compulsory for cyclists, and I wouldn t support segregated cycle lanes. What are
              Message 7 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                That's fine, thanks for letting us know. I wouldn't support anything compulsory for cyclists, and I wouldn't support segregated cycle lanes.

                What are 'armadillo type objects'?

                B

                On 29 Aug 2013, at 20:22, Roger Stocker <rgstocker@...> wrote:

                 

                Yes you have misunderstood. A mandatory cycle lane is for pedal cycles only and motor are not allowed to cross the solid line , (can be time limited though). This includes parking and doesn't need yellow lines either. I bet most drivers wouldn't know that. Cyclists do NOT have to use it so its not that sort of mandatory. It would be better if segregated as motor traffic speeds feel high (and no doubt are). Ideal trial of armadillo type objects. These facilities are not often enforced.
                Roger

                On Aug 29, 2013 7:46 PM, "Nick Williams" <bikepest@...> wrote:
                 

                Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 

                 

                If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 

                 

                Have I misunderstood?

                 

                N


                 

                To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                From: bobwalkden@...
                Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
                Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                 
                What is a mandatory cycle lane?

                B

                On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

                 


                Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

                Please reply individually with your views, as below.

                 

                From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
                Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
                To: Anthony Austin
                Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

                 

                Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

                Our Ref:  1000001337

                 

                Dear Anthony

                 

                On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

                 

                I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

                 

                Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

                 

                If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

                 

                 

                Kind Regards

                 

                Jade Berman

                Senior Traffic Order Maker

                 

                t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
                f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

                 

                Project Centre

                Level 4 Westgate House

                Westgate, London

                W5 1YY

                 

                <image001.jpg>

                < span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:black;">www.projectcentre.co.uk

                 

                 



                Follow ProjectCentreUK on TwitterView Project Centre's   profile on LinkedIn


                PROJECT  CENTRE  LTD.  DISCLAIMER

                This e-mail, and any attachments hereto, are intended for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged material and confidential information that is exempt from disclosure by law.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited and you must not read, use or take any action in reliance on it.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the Sender by telephone
                0844 870 7070
                and permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and destroy any print-out hereto.
                Project Centre Limited registered office -
                4th Floor, Westgate House, Westgate, London W5 1YY.
                Registered in England and Wales.
                Registered Number - 2625312.


              • scarlgar
                The general meaning of mandatory cycle lane (in this country at least) seems to be a lane for the exclusive use of cyclists, which motorists should not
                Message 8 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                  The general meaning of 'mandatory cycle lane' (in this country at least) seems to be a lane for the exclusive use of cyclists, which motorists should not encroach upon:

                  See also:

                  Hence the word 'mandatory' really refers to motor vehicles not cyclists. 

                  However elsewhere such as in the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany it is often mandatory for cyclists to use a bike lane rather than the road - see http://bicycledriving.org/bikeways/bike-lanes (the paragraph with the heading "Mandatory Bicycle Lane Use"). 

                  Indeed it is an irony that in this country cyclists retain the right to cycle on virtually any road except motorways whereas in countries with far superior cycling infrastructure and high modal share there are many roads from which they are banned - for some of the historical reasons for this state of affairs see http://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2009/dec/14/cycling-ethical-living and http://www.voleospeed.co.uk/2011/07/1934-moment-it-all-went-wrong-for.html.



                  From: Nick Williams <bikepest@...>
                  To: Greenwich Cyclists <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2013, 19:45
                  Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road



                  Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 
                   
                  If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 
                   
                  Have I misunderstood?
                   
                  N

                   

                  To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                  From: bobwalkden@...
                  Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
                  Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                   
                  What is a mandatory cycle lane?

                  B

                  On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

                   

                  Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.
                  Please reply individually with your views, as below.
                   
                  From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
                  Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
                  To: Anthony Austin
                  Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation
                   
                  Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road
                  Our Ref:  1000001337
                   
                  Dear Anthony
                   
                  On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.
                   
                  I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 
                   
                  Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.
                   
                  If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.
                   
                   
                  Kind Regards
                   
                  Jade Berman
                  Senior Traffic Order Maker
                   
                  t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
                  f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199
                   
                  Project Centre
                  Level 4 Westgate House
                  Westgate, London
                  W5 1YY
                   
                  <image001.jpg>
                   
                   


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                • Francis Sedgemore
                  ... Cyclists are not obliged to use non-segregated mandatory cycle lanes, but with segregated lanes there will be pressure on cyclists to use them, and
                  Message 9 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                    On 29 Aug 13, at 19:45, Nick Williams <bikepest@...> wrote:

                    > If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent. We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably.

                    Cyclists are not obliged to use non-segregated mandatory cycle lanes, but with segregated lanes there will be pressure on cyclists to use them, and possibly a legal imperative. In my view that could be a good thing.

                    In Copenhagen, where I used to live, fully segregated cycle lanes are concentrated on busy urban thoroughfares, and on these streets it makes sense to fully separate cyclists and motorists. Other cycle lanes are semi-segregated, with physical barriers only in place on certain stretches. Laws mandating the use if cycle lanes or no, cyclists are rarely seen riding outside the cycle lanes in inner city Copenhagen and Frederiksberg.

                    Personally, I'm not too concerned about being slowed down a little on busy inner city roads. We cyclists will most likely still be the fastest moving objects on such roads. I would rather that everyone slow down a bit, and pay more attention to their surroundings and other road users.

                    Returning to the topic of the Woolwich road, I would be very pleased to see a mandatory cycle lane here. Significant sections of the A206 – along Plumstead Road, Woolwich Church Street and Woolwich Road – are very fast moving (certainly much faster than the 30mph legal limit), and there are a number of bends in the road with poor visibility. Riding along these I often fear being rear-ended by an inattentive driver.

                    I would very much appreciate a mandatory cycle lane along the Woolwich Road.

                    Francis

                    --
                    Dr Francis Sedgemore
                    journalist, writer and physicist
                    telephone: +44 7840 191336
                    website: sedgemore.com
                  • Mark Etherington
                    For information on cycle lane armadillos see: http://en.zicla.com/products/65/zebra and
                    Message 10 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                      For information on cycle lane armadillos see:


                      and

                      Mark

                      On 29 Aug 2013, at 20:26, Bob Walkden <bobwalkden@...> wrote:

                       

                      That's fine, thanks for letting us know. I wouldn't support anything compulsory for cyclists, and I wouldn't support segregated cycle lanes.

                      What are 'armadillo type objects'?

                      B

                      On 29 Aug 2013, at 20:22, Roger Stocker <rgstocker@...> wrote:

                       

                      Yes you have misunderstood. A mandatory cycle lane is for pedal cycles only and motor are not allowed to cross the solid line , (can be time limited though). This includes parking and doesn't need yellow lines either. I bet most drivers wouldn't know that. Cyclists do NOT have to use it so its not that sort of mandatory. It would be better if segregated as motor traffic speeds feel high (and no doubt are). Ideal trial of armadillo type objects. These facilities are not often enforced.
                      Roger

                      On Aug 29, 2013 7:46 PM, "Nick Williams" <bikepest@...> wrote:
                       

                      Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 

                       

                      If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 

                       

                      Have I misunderstood?

                       

                      N


                       

                      To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                      From: bobwalkden@...
                      Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
                      Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                       
                      What is a mandatory cycle lane?

                      B

                      On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

                       


                      Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

                      Please reply individually with your views, as below.

                       

                      From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
                      Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
                      To: Anthony Austin
                      Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

                       

                      Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

                      Our Ref:  1000001337

                       

                      Dear Anthony

                       

                      On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

                       

                      I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

                       

                      Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

                       

                      If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

                       

                       

                      Kind Regards

                       

                      Jade Berman

                      Senior Traffic Order Maker

                       

                      t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
                      f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

                       

                      Project Centre

                      Level 4 Westgate House

                      Westgate, London

                      W5 1YY

                       

                      <image001.jpg>

                      < span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:black;">www.projectcentre.co.uk

                       

                       



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                      0844 870 7070
                      and permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and destroy any print-out hereto.
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                      Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)
                      .
                    • scarlgar
                      Yes, the proposals under consideration seem only to involve the resurfacing of existing cycle lanes and possible widening (though it is not clear where any
                      Message 11 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                        Yes, the proposals under consideration seem only to involve the resurfacing of existing cycle lanes and possible widening (though it is not clear where any extra width is coming from). This in itself is to be welcomed, but we should not forget that all the way from Warspite Road to Burrage Road there is no cycle lane at all on the A206 east or westbound. I hope there are plans to remedy this - as Francis says, cycling along this stretch can be a scary experience. They will surely be needed if CSH4 ever comes into being.


                        From: Francis Sedgemore <francis@...>
                        To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2013, 20:52
                        Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road


                        On 29 Aug 13, at 19:45, Nick Williams <bikepest@...> wrote:

                        > If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably.

                        Cyclists are not obliged to use non-segregated mandatory cycle lanes, but with segregated lanes there will be pressure on cyclists to use them, and possibly a legal imperative. In my view that could be a good thing.

                        In Copenhagen, where I used to live, fully segregated cycle lanes are concentrated on busy urban thoroughfares, and on these streets it makes sense to fully separate cyclists and motorists. Other cycle lanes are semi-segregated, with physical barriers only in place on certain stretches. Laws mandating the use if cycle lanes or no, cyclists are rarely seen riding outside the cycle lanes in inner city Copenhagen and Frederiksberg.

                        Personally, I'm not too concerned about being slowed down a little on busy inner city roads. We cyclists will most likely still be the fastest moving objects on such roads. I would rather that everyone slow down a bit, and pay more attention to their surroundings and other road users.

                        Returning to the topic of the Woolwich road, I would be very pleased to see a mandatory cycle lane here. Significant sections of the A206 – along Plumstead Road, Woolwich Church Street and Woolwich Road – are very fast moving (certainly much faster than the 30mph legal limit), and there are a number of bends in the road with poor visibility. Riding along these I often fear being rear-ended by an inattentive driver.

                        I would very much appreciate a mandatory cycle lane along the Woolwich Road.

                        Francis

                        --
                        Dr Francis Sedgemore
                        journalist, writer and physicist
                        telephone: +44 7840 191336
                        website: sedgemore.com



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                      • Bob Walkden
                        Thanks. B ... Thanks. B On 29 Aug 2013, at 21:10, Mark Etherington wrote: For information on cycle lane armadillos see:
                        Message 12 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                          Thanks.

                          B

                          On 29 Aug 2013, at 21:10, Mark Etherington <marke@...> wrote:

                           

                          For information on cycle lane armadillos see:


                          and

                          Mark

                          On 29 Aug 2013, at 20:26, Bob Walkden <bobwalkden@...> wrote:

                           

                          That's fine, thanks for letting us know. I wouldn't support anything compulsory for cyclists, and I wouldn't support segregated cycle lanes.

                          What are 'armadillo type objects'?

                          B

                          On 29 Aug 2013, at 20:22, Roger Stocker <rgstocker@...> wrote:

                           

                          Yes you have misunderstood. A mandatory cycle lane is for pedal cycles only and motor are not allowed to cross the solid line , (can be time limited though). This includes parking and doesn't need yellow lines either. I bet most drivers wouldn't know that. Cyclists do NOT have to use it so its not that sort of mandatory. It would be better if segregated as motor traffic speeds feel high (and no doubt are). Ideal trial of armadillo type objects. These facilities are not often enforced.
                          Roger

                          On Aug 29, 2013 7:46 PM, "Nick Williams" <bikepest@...> wrote:
                           

                          Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 

                           

                          If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 

                           

                          Have I misunderstood?

                           

                          N


                           

                          To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                          From: bobwalkden@...
                          Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
                          Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                           
                          What is a mandatory cycle lane?

                          B

                          On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

                           


                          Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

                          Please reply individually with your views, as below.

                           

                          From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
                          Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
                          To: Anthony Austin
                          Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

                           

                          Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

                          Our Ref:  1000001337

                           

                          Dear Anthony

                           

                          On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

                           

                          I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

                           

                          Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

                           

                          If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

                           

                           

                          Kind Regards

                           

                          Jade Berman

                          Senior Traffic Order Maker

                           

                          t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
                          f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

                           

                          Project Centre

                          Level 4 Westgate House

                          Westgate, London

                          W5 1YY

                           

                          <image001.jpg>

                          < span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:black;">www.projectcentre.co.uk

                           

                           



                          Follow ProjectCentreUK on TwitterView Project Centre's   profile on LinkedIn


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                          This e-mail, and any attachments hereto, are intended for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged material and confidential information that is exempt from disclosure by law.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited and you must not read, use or take any action in reliance on it.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the Sender by telephone
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                          Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)
                          .

                        • Liz Delap
                          Is a mandatory cycle lane one with a solid line separating it from the rest of the road, meaning that vehicles are not supposed to cross into it at any time.
                          Message 13 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                            Is a mandatory cycle lane one with a solid line separating it from the rest of the road, meaning that vehicles are not supposed to cross into it at any time. If the line is broken then they are allowed to use it too.

                            If I'm right I don't suppose there are many road users who know about it!

                            Kind regards.

                            Liz

                            On 29 Aug 2013, at 19:46, "Nick Williams" <bikepest@...> wrote:

                             

                            Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 

                             

                            If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 

                             

                            Have I misunderstood?

                             

                            N


                             

                            To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                            From: bobwalkden@...
                            Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
                            Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                             
                            What is a mandatory cycle lane?

                            B

                            On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

                             


                            Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

                            Please reply individually with your views, as below.

                             

                            From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
                            Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
                            To: Anthony Austin
                            Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

                             

                            Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

                            Our Ref:  1000001337

                             

                            Dear Anthony

                             

                            On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

                             

                            I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

                             

                            Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

                             

                            If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

                             

                             

                            Kind Regards

                             

                            Jade Berman

                            Senior Traffic Order Maker

                             

                            t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
                            f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

                             

                            Project Centre

                            Level 4 Westgate House

                            Westgate, London

                            W5 1YY

                             

                            <image001.jpg>

                            < span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"AvantGarde Bk BT";color:black;">www.projectcentre.co.uk

                             

                             



                            Follow ProjectCentreUK on TwitterView Project Centre's   profile on LinkedIn


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                            This e-mail, and any attachments hereto, are intended for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged material and confidential information that is exempt from disclosure by law.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited and you must not read, use or take any action in reliance on it.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the Sender by telephone
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                            Registered Number - 2625312.


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                            disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, do not duplicate or redistribute it

                            by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received

                            it in error.

                             

                            Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent

                            those of TESLA, Inc. or TESLA (Europe) Ltd.

                             

                            TESLA, Inc. is a company incorporated in the Commonwealth of Virginia, with its registered office

                            at 9201 Arboretum Parkway, Suite 120, Richmond, VA 23236-5403, USA.

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                          • scarlgar
                            Yes I believe that is correct - solid line for a mandatory cycle lane and broken line for an advisory one. ________________________________ From: Liz Delap
                            Message 14 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                              Yes I believe that is correct - solid line for a mandatory cycle lane and broken line for an advisory one.



                              From: Liz Delap <liz.delap@...>
                              To: "greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com" <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                              Cc: Greenwich Cyclists <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2013, 21:46
                              Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road



                              Is a mandatory cycle lane one with a solid line separating it from the rest of the road, meaning that vehicles are not supposed to cross into it at any time. If the line is broken then they are allowed to use it too.

                              If I'm right I don't suppose there are many road users who know about it!

                              Kind regards.

                              Liz

                              On 29 Aug 2013, at 19:46, "Nick Williams" <bikepest@...> wrote:

                               
                              Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 
                               
                              If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 
                               
                              Have I misunderstood?
                               
                              N

                               

                              To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                              From: bobwalkden@...
                              Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
                              Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                               
                              What is a mandatory cycle lane?

                              B

                              On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

                               

                              Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.
                              Please reply individually with your views, as below.
                               
                              From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
                              Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
                              To: Anthony Austin
                              Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation
                               
                              Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road
                              Our Ref:  1000001337
                               
                              Dear Anthony
                               
                              On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.
                               
                              I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 
                               
                              Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.
                               
                              If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.
                               
                               
                              Kind Regards
                               
                              Jade Berman
                              Senior Traffic Order Maker
                               
                              t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
                              f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199
                               
                              Project Centre
                              Level 4 Westgate House
                              Westgate, London
                              W5 1YY
                               
                              <image001.jpg>
                               
                               


                              Follow ProjectCentreUK on TwitterView Project Centre's   profile on LinkedIn

                              PROJECT  CENTRE  LTD.  DISCLAIMER
                              This e-mail, and any attachments hereto, are intended for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged material and confidential information that is exempt from disclosure by law.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited and you must not read, use or take any action in reliance on it.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the Sender by telephone
                              0844 870 7070
                              and permanently delete the original and all copies of this e-mail and destroy any print-out hereto.
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                              Registered Number - 2625312.


                              Page Title
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                              disclosure. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, do not duplicate or redistribute it
                              by any means. Please delete it and any attachments and notify the sender that you have received
                              it in error.
                               
                              Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent
                              those of TESLA, Inc. or TESLA (Europe) Ltd.
                               
                              TESLA, Inc. is a company incorporated in the Commonwealth of Virginia, with its registered office
                              at 9201 Arboretum Parkway, Suite 120, Richmond, VA 23236-5403, USA.
                              TESLA (Europe) Ltd. is a company registered in England (Registered No. 2777311), with its
                              registered office at 42-43 Lower Marsh, London, SE1 7RG, UK.
                               
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                            • Anthony Austin
                              That’s how I understand it too. And we cyclists are allowed to cycle outside such lanes if we choose. And no parking will be allowed, unlike the useless
                              Message 15 of 17 , Aug 29, 2013
                                Page Title

                                That’s how I understand it too. And we cyclists are allowed to cycle outside such lanes if we choose. And no parking will be allowed, unlike the useless cycle lane west from Plumstead Station which is always blocked with vehicles.

                                 

                                From: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scarlgar
                                Sent: 29 August 2013 22:07
                                To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                                 

                                 

                                Yes I believe that is correct - solid line for a mandatory cycle lane and broken line for an advisory one.

                                 

                                 


                                From: Liz Delap <liz.delap@...>
                                To: "greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com" <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                                Cc: Greenwich Cyclists <greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2013, 21:46
                                Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                                 

                                 

                                Is a mandatory cycle lane one with a solid line separating it from the rest of the road, meaning that vehicles are not supposed to cross into it at any time. If the line is broken then they are allowed to use it too.

                                 

                                If I'm right I don't suppose there are many road users who know about it!

                                Kind regards.

                                 

                                Liz


                                On 29 Aug 2013, at 19:46, "Nick Williams" <bikepest@...> wrote:

                                 

                                Good question.  I am happy to support segregated provision where that's useful (particularly for less confident cyclists, for example) but I am not not happy to be forced to use it. 

                                 

                                If it means compulsory it could set a really bad precedent.  We'll end up having to stick to badly designed and poorly maintained cycle lanes that slow us down considerably. 

                                 

                                Have I misunderstood?

                                 

                                N


                                 


                                To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                                From: bobwalkden@...
                                Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:22:42 +0100
                                Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Mandatory cycle lanes on Woolwich Road

                                 

                                What is a mandatory cycle lane?

                                 

                                B


                                On 29 Aug 2013, at 09:31, "Anthony Austin" <austin970@...> wrote:

                                 

                                 

                                Hurrah, this is what we’ve campaigned for, pending a solution to The Missing Link, of course.

                                Please reply individually with your views, as below.

                                 

                                From: Jade Berman [mailto:Jade.Berman@...]
                                Sent: 29 August 2013 08:23
                                To: Anthony Austin
                                Subject: Royal Borough of Greenwich - Woolwich Road Cycle Lane Consultation

                                 

                                Royal Borough of Greenwich - Consultation on Proposal for Mandatory Cycle Lanes in Woolwich Road

                                Our Ref:  1000001337

                                 

                                Dear Anthony

                                 

                                On behalf of the Council of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, and in accordance with the usual consultation procedures on traffic and parking schemes, I wish to draw your attention to the Council’s intention to implement the above proposals.

                                 

                                I attach, for your information, a copy of the public Notice of Proposals, the Statement of Reasons and indicative plan. 

                                 

                                Please could you send any comments or observations in writing, specifying the grounds on which any objection (where relevant) is made, to me at the postal address below or my email address quoting the reference stated above, to arrive by 17th September 2013.

                                 

                                If you have any enquiries or wish to discuss the proposals, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, you may contact the Royal Borough of Greenwich, on telephone number 020 8921 2284.

                                 

                                 

                                Kind Regards

                                 

                                Jade Berman

                                Senior Traffic Order Maker

                                 

                                t:+44 (0)20 7430 6908
                                f:+44 (0)20 7421 8199

                                 

                                Project Centre

                                Level 4 Westgate House

                                Westgate, London

                                W5 1YY

                                 

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                              • tim.collingridge@btinternet.com
                                I think the armadillos, as shown in the left hand picture in Camden, would be a welcome addition to the solid line on the mandatory cycle lane and would deter
                                Message 16 of 17 , Aug 30, 2013
                                  I think the armadillos, as shown in the left hand picture in Camden, would be a welcome addition to the solid line on the mandatory cycle lane and would deter vehicles from straying into the lane. It would certainly make me feel a lot safer riding along what is a very intimidating stretch of road.
                                   
                                   
                                  TfL are talking about using these on a lot more routes and hopefully they could become the norm.
                                   
                                  C​
                                  heers, Tim​
                                • Bob Walkden
                                  They look like a bad idea to me. Like rumblestrips they may well remind drivers if they stray onto the cycle lane, but they look as though they would easily
                                  Message 17 of 17 , Aug 30, 2013
                                    They look like a bad idea to me. 

                                    Like rumblestrips they may well remind drivers if they stray onto the cycle lane, but they look as though they would easily cause cyclists to lose control of their bike if they stray onto one. And when cyclists have to leave the lane they give them one more thing to have to think about and concentrate on avoiding, distracting them from the important parts of the manoeuvre.

                                    Is there any evidence that these things improve anything for cyclists?

                                    B

                                    On 30 Aug 2013, at 11:18, tim.collingridge@... wrote:

                                     

                                    I think the armadillos, as shown in the left hand picture in Camden, would be a welcome addition to the solid line on the mandatory cycle lane and would deter vehicles from straying into the lane. It would certainly make me feel a lot safer riding along what is a very intimidating stretch of road.
                                     
                                     
                                    TfL are talking about using these on a lot more routes and hopefully they could become the norm.
                                     
                                    C​
                                    heers, Tim​

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