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RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement

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  • Charles January
    Thinking about it this morning, I realised that I have NEVER seen any enforcement of bus lanes in the 16:00 - 19:00 operational hours. However, there is one
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 30, 2001
      Thinking about it this morning, I realised that I have NEVER seen any enforcement of bus lanes in the 16:00 - 19:00 operational hours.  However, there is one section where abuse along the OKR has been very plain in recent weeks.  Unfortunately, I can not recall the section, but as I am on my bike tonight, no doubt I will encounter it again and his time I will make a stronger mental note of the location.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: xina.gooding [mailto:xina.gooding@...]
      Sent: 29 November 2001 09:52
      To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement

      I commute via OKR, which part of it do you mean?
       
      Xina
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Charles January [mailto:CharlesJ@...]
      Sent: 29 November 2001 15:00
      To: 'greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com'
      Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement

      Thank you to all (especially Joyce & David) for clearing-up my little dilemma.
       
      I share your views Roger, but as Securicor vans are much bigger than me, I think I will treat them with a little more respect next time (even if I can't see inside to confirm whether they are carrying 8 or more persons!!!).
       
      When commuting home in the evening, there is a part of the Old Kent Road that is a designated bus lane, BUT every car/van user knows that there is no enforcement, so every night, & I exaggerate not, it is violated continuously.  What is one to do?
       
      Charles.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Roger Stocker [mailto:roger.stocker@...]
      Sent: 29 November 2001 02:15
      To: 'greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com'
      Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement

      I tend to think that its any vehicle who wants too, they know that it is
      very unlikely that they will ever get caught, but just in case travel twice
      as fast as all the other traffic. We are now in a time when restrictions on
      driers are at a all time high (bus/cycle lanes, left/right filter lanes,
      restricted access roads, red routes) and policing of aforementioned is at a
      all time low (check most red routes...NO parking in rush hours....ever seen
      any traffic wardens at 18.30 in the evening..even the Co-op have a regular
      delivery pre 1900 hrs at there Camberwell Road site..)

      Roger

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Joyce Simmonds [mailto:joyce.simmonds@...]
      Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:07 PM
      To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement


      It's my understanding that passenger carrying vehicles including taxis
      and school buses are allowed to use bus lanes.  If the Securicor van is
      used to transport prisoners, it would probably come into the category of
      a PCV.

      Charles January wrote:

      >  RichardThank you for the clarity of the legal situation regarding
      > bike parking (puts a bit of a dampener on the whatshouldiputonthefence
      > fun, but legal knowledge is necessary!!).I was wondering, therefore,
      > if you knew the legal situation regarding bus lanes.  I tried to
      > obtain same following a dispute I had with a driver of a Securicor
      > prison van who insisted that he had a legal right to use a bus lane
      > within its operational time period.  I have, to date, been
      > unsuccessful in hearing from anyone (even the LCC) as to who was
      > right.  Any thoughts?ThanksCharles
      >
      >      -----Original Message-----
      >      From: Richard Marston [mailto:richard.marston@...]
      >
      >      Sent: 23 November 2001 11:43
      >      To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
      >      Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement
      >
      >      --- In greenwichcyclists@y..., AndrewBMH@a... wrote:
      >      > Dear All,
      >      >
      >      > If you want some amusement do look this unusual and
      >      humorous site up
      >      > concerning one cyclists battle with corporate power!
      >      >
      >      > Andrew
      >      >
      >      > Address is: http://www.whatshouldiputonthefence.com/
      >
      >
      >      Funny, but:-
      >
      >      Cyclists are subject to special parking controls: it is
      >      illegal to
      >      leave a bike in a potentially dangerous position on the
      >      road;
      >      anywhere on a public footpath; or on a driveway access to a
      >      property without the permission of the property owner. In
      >      other
      >      words, parking a bike on the pavement by chaining it to the
      >      railings of a house is breaking the law.
      >
      >      However, cyclists are allowed to park their machines on a
      >      double yellow line, provided it is not on the pavement
      >      itself and is
      >      not in a potentially dangerous position.
      >
      >
      >      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >      greenwichcyclists-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      >      Service.
      >
      >
      >                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                              ADVERTISEMENT


      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > greenwichcyclists-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >
      >
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    • Greg Englefield
      Just to remind everyone that bus lanes are generally marked as bus AND cycle lanes (blue signs have a picture of both a bus and a cycle). In correspondence
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 2, 2001
        Just to remind everyone that bus lanes are generally marked as bus AND
        cycle lanes (blue signs have a picture of both a bus and a cycle). In
        correspondence with various officials this often seems to be forgotten
        by transport designers. This may explain the general lack of
        continuation cycle lanes when a two lane road (one bus lane and one
        other motor vehicle lane) narrows to a wide single lane for all
        vehicles. Even though there may be lots of room for a continuation
        cycle lane, this is not generally marked, and cyclists who are attracted
        to the bus/cycle lane have to continue their journey trying to avoid
        traffic in the wide single lane. The route between Greenwich and London
        along Evelyn St and Lower Rd is a classic example. It would be good if
        those responsible for implementing bus/cycle lanes and cycle lanes and
        the LCN considered this issue.

        Greg

        In message <411BF7C676BBD511B6CC0000E226908E0F47A2@server2>, Charles
        January <CharlesJ@...> writes
        >Thinking about it this morning, I realised that I have NEVER seen any
        >enforcement of bus lanes in the 16:00 - 19:00 operational hours. However,
        >there is one section where abuse along the OKR has been very plain in recent
        >weeks. Unfortunately, I can not recall the section, but as I am on my bike
        >tonight, no doubt I will encounter it again and his time I will make a
        >stronger mental note of the location.
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: xina.gooding [mailto:xina.gooding@...]
        >Sent: 29 November 2001 09:52
        >To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement
        >
        >
        >I commute via OKR, which part of it do you mean?
        >
        >Xina
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Charles January [mailto:CharlesJ@...]
        >Sent: 29 November 2001 15:00
        >To: 'greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com'
        >Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement
        >
        >
        >Thank you to all (especially Joyce & David) for clearing-up my little
        >dilemma.
        >
        >I share your views Roger, but as Securicor vans are much bigger than me, I
        >think I will treat them with a little more respect next time (even if I
        >can't see inside to confirm whether they are carrying 8 or more persons!!!).
        >
        >When commuting home in the evening, there is a part of the Old Kent Road
        >that is a designated bus lane, BUT every car/van user knows that there is no
        >enforcement, so every night, & I exaggerate not, it is violated
        >continuously. What is one to do?
        >
        >Charles.
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Roger Stocker [mailto:roger.stocker@...]
        >Sent: 29 November 2001 02:15
        >To: 'greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com'
        >Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement
        >
        >
        >I tend to think that its any vehicle who wants too, they know that it is
        >very unlikely that they will ever get caught, but just in case travel twice
        >as fast as all the other traffic. We are now in a time when restrictions on
        >driers are at a all time high (bus/cycle lanes, left/right filter lanes,
        >restricted access roads, red routes) and policing of aforementioned is at a
        >all time low (check most red routes...NO parking in rush hours....ever seen
        >any traffic wardens at 18.30 in the evening..even the Co-op have a regular
        >delivery pre 1900 hrs at there Camberwell Road site..)
        >
        >Roger
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Joyce Simmonds [mailto:joyce.simmonds@...]
        >Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:07 PM
        >To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement
        >
        >
        >It's my understanding that passenger carrying vehicles including taxis
        >and school buses are allowed to use bus lanes. If the Securicor van is
        >used to transport prisoners, it would probably come into the category of
        >a PCV.
        >
        >Charles January wrote:
        >
        >> RichardThank you for the clarity of the legal situation regarding
        >> bike parking (puts a bit of a dampener on the whatshouldiputonthefence
        >> fun, but legal knowledge is necessary!!).I was wondering, therefore,
        >> if you knew the legal situation regarding bus lanes. I tried to
        >> obtain same following a dispute I had with a driver of a Securicor
        >> prison van who insisted that he had a legal right to use a bus lane
        >> within its operational time period. I have, to date, been
        >> unsuccessful in hearing from anyone (even the LCC) as to who was
        >> right. Any thoughts?ThanksCharles
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: Richard Marston [mailto:richard.marston@...]
        >>
        >> Sent: 23 November 2001 11:43
        >> To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement
        >>
        >> --- In greenwichcyclists@y..., AndrewBMH@a... wrote:
        >> > Dear All,
        >> >
        >> > If you want some amusement do look this unusual and
        >> humorous site up
        >> > concerning one cyclists battle with corporate power!
        >> >
        >> > Andrew
        >> >
        >> > Address is: http://www.whatshouldiputonthefence.com/
        ><http://www.whatshouldiputonthefence.com/>
        >>
        >>
        >> Funny, but:-
        >>
        >> Cyclists are subject to special parking controls: it is
        >> illegal to
        >> leave a bike in a potentially dangerous position on the
        >> road;
        >> anywhere on a public footpath; or on a driveway access to a
        >> property without the permission of the property owner. In
        >> other
        >> words, parking a bike on the pavement by chaining it to the
        >> railings of a house is breaking the law.
        >>
        >> However, cyclists are allowed to park their machines on a
        >> double yellow line, provided it is not on the pavement
        >> itself and is
        >> not in a potentially dangerous position.
        >>
        >>
        >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >> greenwichcyclists-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        >> Service.
        >>
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        >>
        >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >> greenwichcyclists-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
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        --
        Henrietta Englefield
      • Greg Englefield
        Just to add some local Greenwich colour on this, delivery lorries 2 - 3 times a week block the bus top and layby outside the Co-op shop on Trafalgar Rd,
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 2, 2001
          Just to add some local Greenwich colour on this, delivery lorries 2 - 3
          times a week block the bus top and layby outside the Co-op shop on
          Trafalgar Rd, (opposite the Forum where we meet), at 8.15am deliverying
          goods - i.e. middle of the morning rush hour. A sign says no loading,
          bus priority lane. A camera overlooks the site. I have written to the
          manager of the Co-op, local councillors and relevant people in Greenwich
          transport department. No change - though everyone (except the co-op who
          ignore correspondence) agrees it is absurd and dangerous (buses have to
          stop in the middle of Trafalgar Rd and people shuffle out into the road
          to get onto the bus and cyclists get squeezed out). But nothing is done
          about it.......

          Greg

          In message <01Nov29.170103gmt.119041@...>,
          Joyce Simmonds <joyce.simmonds@...> writes
          >
          >[ A MIME text / html part was included here. ]
          >
          >
          >[ A MIME image / gif part was included here. ]
          >
          >
          >[ A MIME image / gif part was included here. ]
          >

          --
          Henrietta Englefield
        • Joyce Simmonds
          I ve forwarded this to the head of parking at Greenwich. Joyce ... ADVERTISEMENT
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 4, 2001
            I've forwarded this to the head of parking at Greenwich.

            Joyce

            Greg Englefield wrote:

            Just to add some local Greenwich colour on this, delivery lorries 2 - 3
            times a week block the bus top and layby outside the Co-op shop on
            Trafalgar Rd, (opposite the Forum where we meet), at 8.15am deliverying
            goods - i.e. middle of the morning rush hour.  A sign says no loading,
            bus priority lane.  A camera overlooks the site.  I have written to the
            manager of the Co-op, local councillors and relevant people in Greenwich
            transport department.  No change - though everyone (except the co-op who
            ignore correspondence) agrees it is absurd and dangerous (buses have to
            stop in the middle of Trafalgar Rd and people shuffle out into the road
            to get onto the bus and cyclists get squeezed out).  But nothing is done
            about it.......

            Greg

            In message <01Nov29.170103gmt.119041@...>,
            Joyce Simmonds <joyce.simmonds@...> writes
            >
            >[ A MIME text / html part was included here. ]
            >
            >
            >[ A MIME image / gif part was included here. ]
            >
            >
            >[ A MIME image / gif part was included here. ]
            >

            --
            Henrietta Englefield


            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          • Charles January
            The section by the Corporation of London housing estate, the Avondale Square Estate . I used to look forward to a bit of space in the bus lane, perhaps because
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 13, 2001
              The section by the Corporation of London housing estate, the Avondale Square Estate .
               
              I used to look forward to a bit of space in the bus lane, perhaps because it was the first one on the route home, and an opportunity to get some speed-up.  However, perhaps because of non-enforcement &/or the fact that the red surface is rapidly disappearing and it now looks like any other bit of road, there are more & more cars on it and the freedom & speed have been lost.
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: xina.gooding [mailto:xina.gooding@...]
              Sent: 29 November 2001 09:52
              To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement

              I commute via OKR, which part of it do you mean?
               
              Xina
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Charles January [mailto:CharlesJ@...]
              Sent: 29 November 2001 15:00
              To: 'greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com'
              Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement

              Thank you to all (especially Joyce & David) for clearing-up my little dilemma.
               
              I share your views Roger, but as Securicor vans are much bigger than me, I think I will treat them with a little more respect next time (even if I can't see inside to confirm whether they are carrying 8 or more persons!!!).
               
              When commuting home in the evening, there is a part of the Old Kent Road that is a designated bus lane, BUT every car/van user knows that there is no enforcement, so every night, & I exaggerate not, it is violated continuously.  What is one to do?
               
              Charles.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Roger Stocker [mailto:roger.stocker@...]
              Sent: 29 November 2001 02:15
              To: 'greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com'
              Subject: RE: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement

              I tend to think that its any vehicle who wants too, they know that it is
              very unlikely that they will ever get caught, but just in case travel twice
              as fast as all the other traffic. We are now in a time when restrictions on
              driers are at a all time high (bus/cycle lanes, left/right filter lanes,
              restricted access roads, red routes) and policing of aforementioned is at a
              all time low (check most red routes...NO parking in rush hours....ever seen
              any traffic wardens at 18.30 in the evening..even the Co-op have a regular
              delivery pre 1900 hrs at there Camberwell Road site..)

              Roger

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Joyce Simmonds [mailto:joyce.simmonds@...]
              Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:07 PM
              To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement


              It's my understanding that passenger carrying vehicles including taxis
              and school buses are allowed to use bus lanes.  If the Securicor van is
              used to transport prisoners, it would probably come into the category of
              a PCV.

              Charles January wrote:

              >  RichardThank you for the clarity of the legal situation regarding
              > bike parking (puts a bit of a dampener on the whatshouldiputonthefence
              > fun, but legal knowledge is necessary!!).I was wondering, therefore,
              > if you knew the legal situation regarding bus lanes.  I tried to
              > obtain same following a dispute I had with a driver of a Securicor
              > prison van who insisted that he had a legal right to use a bus lane
              > within its operational time period.  I have, to date, been
              > unsuccessful in hearing from anyone (even the LCC) as to who was
              > right.  Any thoughts?ThanksCharles
              >
              >      -----Original Message-----
              >      From: Richard Marston [mailto:richard.marston@...]
              >
              >      Sent: 23 November 2001 11:43
              >      To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
              >      Subject: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement
              >
              >      --- In greenwichcyclists@y..., AndrewBMH@a... wrote:
              >      > Dear All,
              >      >
              >      > If you want some amusement do look this unusual and
              >      humorous site up
              >      > concerning one cyclists battle with corporate power!
              >      >
              >      > Andrew
              >      >
              >      > Address is: http://www.whatshouldiputonthefence.com/
              >
              >
              >      Funny, but:-
              >
              >      Cyclists are subject to special parking controls: it is
              >      illegal to
              >      leave a bike in a potentially dangerous position on the
              >      road;
              >      anywhere on a public footpath; or on a driveway access to a
              >      property without the permission of the property owner. In
              >      other
              >      words, parking a bike on the pavement by chaining it to the
              >      railings of a house is breaking the law.
              >
              >      However, cyclists are allowed to park their machines on a
              >      double yellow line, provided it is not on the pavement
              >      itself and is
              >      not in a potentially dangerous position.
              >
              >
              >      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >      greenwichcyclists-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              >      Service.
              >
              >
              >                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                      ADVERTISEMENT


              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > greenwichcyclists-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
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              **********************************************************************
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              intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
              are addressed. If you have received this email in error please forward
              it to Chordiant Global Helpdesk (mailto:Postmaster@...).

              This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
              MIMEsweeper (www.mimesweeper.com) for the presence of computer viruses.

              www.chordiant.com

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            • Doug
              Nothing new there then. You obviously haven t heard of Doug s law: Whatever road transport facilities are provided they will inevitably end up being abused or
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 13, 2001
                Nothing new there then.

                You obviously haven't heard of Doug's law:

                "Whatever road transport facilities are provided they will inevitably end
                up being abused or monopolised by private cars".

                A case in point are special parking zones generously provided on the Red
                Route through Lewisham. Why bother to have Red Routes at all if they end up
                being cluttered up with parked cars, some even on bus/cycle lanes? Wasn't
                the original intention with the humble single yellow line not to impede
                traffic flow?

                One wonders what exotic road decor we will have next, to ram the
                unenforc/ed/able message home.

                Doug.

                at 11:32 13/12/01 -0000, you wrote:

                >The section by the Corporation of London housing estate, the Avondale
                Square Estate .

                >I used to look forward to a bit of space in the bus lane, perhaps because
                it was the first one on the route home, and an opportunity to get some
                speed-up. However, perhaps because of non-enforcement &/or the fact that
                the red surface is rapidly disappearing and it now looks like any other bit
                of road, there are more & more cars on it and the freedom & speed have been
                lost.
              • AndrewBMH@aol.com
                All, Encouraging sight yesterday morning. Lots of cars in bus lane leading up to turning by Deptford High Street. 2 policemen without hats on stopping and
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 13, 2001
                  All,

                  Encouraging sight yesterday morning. Lots of cars in bus lane leading up to turning by Deptford High Street. 2 policemen without hats on stopping and (presumably) giving them a ticket.

                  Andrew
                • Charles January
                  Makes a change.... When are they going to do the same in the evening?????????? Charles ... From: AndrewBMH@aol.com [mailto:AndrewBMH@aol.com] Sent: 13 December
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 14, 2001
                    Makes a change....
                     
                    When are they going to do the same in the evening??????????
                     
                    Charles
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: AndrewBMH@... [mailto:AndrewBMH@...]
                    Sent: 13 December 2001 09:56
                    To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [greenwichcyclists] Re: Bizarre site for amusement

                    All,

                    Encouraging sight yesterday morning. Lots of cars in bus lane leading up to turning by Deptford High Street. 2 policemen without hats on stopping and (presumably) giving them a ticket.

                    Andrew


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                  • douglas.ellison@btinternet.com
                    Dear All, Pls see TfL s press release on bus lane enforcement. Worth monitoring to see if they actually continue to improve. No breakdown by borough which is
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 31, 2003
                      Dear All,

                      Pls see TfL's press release on bus lane enforcement. Worth monitoring to see if they actually continue to improve. No breakdown by borough which is disappointing to see if there are any differences.

                      http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl/press_674.shtml

                      Best regards

                      Douglas


                      A message from Councillor Douglas Ellison

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                    • Ayako Dobson
                      on 31/3/03 4:20 pm, douglas.ellison@btinternet.com at ... Following on from Douglas s comment about bus lane enforcement, TfL responded very quickly and
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 31, 2003
                        on 31/3/03 4:20 pm, douglas.ellison@... at
                        douglas.ellison@... wrote:

                        > Dear All,
                        >
                        > Pls see TfL's press release on bus lane enforcement. Worth monitoring to see
                        > if they actually continue to improve. No breakdown by borough which is
                        > disappointing to see if there are any differences.
                        >
                        > http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl/press_674.shtml
                        >
                        > Best regards
                        >
                        > Douglas
                        >
                        >
                        > A message from Councillor Douglas Ellison
                        >
                        > Home: 020 8853 1921
                        > Mobile: +44 7740 463191
                        >
                        > 52 Beaconsfield Road
                        > London
                        > SE3 7LG
                        >
                        > www.elthamnorth.com
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        >
                        Following on from Douglas's comment about bus lane enforcement, TfL
                        responded very quickly and professionally when I reported a missing man-hole
                        cover on Evelyn road last Thursday. I rang them Thursday evening, and got
                        through to a very efficient and responsive person who took all my details,
                        and gave me a reference number (He spoke with an American accent and signed
                        off with "Have a good day". Do TfL have call centres in the States?). I
                        checked the cover the next evening, and it had been fixed, which I think is
                        pretty good.

                        Julian
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