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Exporting a cave line plot as GPX

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  • Luc Le Blanc
    Hi, I want to export a cave line plot as GPX to superimpose over a surface map in mapping programs. A cave line plot consists of (visible) stations, i.e. named
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 11 1:30 PM
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      Hi,

      I want to export a cave line plot as GPX to superimpose over a surface
      map in mapping programs.

      A cave line plot consists of (visible) stations, i.e. named points,
      each with a geographic location, linked in pairs by survey shots, i.e.
      (visible) line segments that can carry a comment.

      A cave or network of caves can be anywhere between 100-30,000+ survey
      shots linking a comparable number of stations.

      I could use wptType to hold stations, but it then seems overkill to
      declare a route for each pair of stations. The ptType/ptsegType seems
      more appropriate. Do I have better options?

      Thanks,


      --
      Luc Le Blanc

      http://www.speleo.qc.ca/Auriga
    • Dan Anderson
      ... Is there a reason not to use tracks with two points?
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 11 3:31 PM
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        --- In gpsxml@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Le Blanc" <speleoluc@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I want to export a cave line plot as GPX to superimpose over a surface
        > map in mapping programs.
        >
        > A cave line plot consists of (visible) stations, i.e. named points,
        > each with a geographic location, linked in pairs by survey shots, i.e.
        > (visible) line segments that can carry a comment.
        >
        > A cave or network of caves can be anywhere between 100-30,000+ survey
        > shots linking a comparable number of stations.
        >
        > I could use wptType to hold stations, but it then seems overkill to
        > declare a route for each pair of stations. The ptType/ptsegType seems
        > more appropriate. Do I have better options?

        Is there a reason not to use tracks with two points?
      • Luc Le Blanc
        ... Because I would have as many tracks as survey shots (the software does not know passages, only single survey shots). Isn t there a limit on these? I
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 11 3:54 PM
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          2007/9/11, Dan Anderson <dananderson2@...>:
          > --- In gpsxml@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Le Blanc" <speleoluc@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi,
          > >
          > > I want to export a cave line plot as GPX to superimpose over a surface
          > > map in mapping programs.
          > >
          > > A cave line plot consists of (visible) stations, i.e. named points,
          > > each with a geographic location, linked in pairs by survey shots, i.e.
          > > (visible) line segments that can carry a comment.
          > >
          > > A cave or network of caves can be anywhere between 100-30,000+ survey
          > > shots linking a comparable number of stations.
          > >
          > > I could use wptType to hold stations, but it then seems overkill to
          > > declare a route for each pair of stations. The ptType/ptsegType seems
          > > more appropriate. Do I have better options?
          >
          > Is there a reason not to use tracks with two points?


          Because I would have as many tracks as survey shots (the software does
          not "know' passages, only single survey shots). Isn't there a limit on
          these? I recall reading something about this.


          Luc Le Blanc
        • Dan Anderson
          ... surface ... shots, i.e. ... survey ... seems ... Any given program may have some limit. I think you can find a program that would let you have 30,000
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 12 9:10 AM
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            --- In gpsxml@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Le Blanc" <speleoluc@...> wrote:
            >
            > 2007/9/11, Dan Anderson <dananderson2@...>:
            > > --- In gpsxml@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Le Blanc" <speleoluc@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi,
            > > >
            > > > I want to export a cave line plot as GPX to superimpose over a
            surface
            > > > map in mapping programs.
            > > >
            > > > A cave line plot consists of (visible) stations, i.e. named points,
            > > > each with a geographic location, linked in pairs by survey
            shots, i.e.
            > > > (visible) line segments that can carry a comment.
            > > >
            > > > A cave or network of caves can be anywhere between 100-30,000+
            survey
            > > > shots linking a comparable number of stations.
            > > >
            > > > I could use wptType to hold stations, but it then seems overkill to
            > > > declare a route for each pair of stations. The ptType/ptsegType
            seems
            > > > more appropriate. Do I have better options?
            > >
            > > Is there a reason not to use tracks with two points?
            >
            >
            > Because I would have as many tracks as survey shots (the software does
            > not "know' passages, only single survey shots). Isn't there a limit on
            > these? I recall reading something about this.

            Any given program may have some limit. I think you can find a program
            that would let you have 30,000 tracks. One track may also have more
            than one segment; however, depending on the program, the separate
            segments may or may not be drawn connected. If you run into a track
            limit, a program that displays separate segments within a track may help.

            I primarily use ExpertGPS. The limits are well above my needs, so I
            don't know what they are. I've seen some high numbers with some
            objects in ExpertGPS, so you might try a test with it. There's a 30
            day free trial period.

            The number of routes available in GPS receivers is usually very low
            (30 to 150). Since the number of routes is usually low and even if the
            number of routes allowed by a program is high, you might be more
            likely to run into problems with routes (bugs if nothing else).

            I'm not really clear about what you want to accomplish, but using
            waypoints and connecting them with routes might be the best way. I
            don't think I'd call it overkill if it accomplishes what you want.
            The waypoints give you point type information that you don't get with
            tracks and trackpoints (even if you don't make use of waypoint names
            and/or comments now you might be glad you did later). You might do a
            dummy test to see if the quantity of data you want works.
          • Luc Le Blanc
            ... Actually, I don t target any specific software, I just want to add a GPX export feature to my cave survey freeware. I know a user would use it with
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 12 11:25 AM
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              2007/9/12, Dan Anderson <dananderson2@...>:

              > Any given program may have some limit. I think you can find a program
              > that would let you have 30,000 tracks. One track may also have more
              > than one segment; however, depending on the program, the separate
              > segments may or may not be drawn connected. If you run into a track
              > limit, a program that displays separate segments within a track may help.

              Actually, I don't target any specific software, I just want to add a
              GPX export feature to my cave survey freeware. I know a user would use
              it with OziExplorer, but others could use PathAway on a Palm or
              anything else. I am just trying to find the most efficient GPX
              approach with regards to data types. I plan to build a trial GPX file
              to send to some GPS users (and cavers.)


              Luc Le Blanc
            • Louis
              IMHO for a very high number of points / tracks, a GPX file is not the best solution. Instead you should store them in some sort of data base, and extract in
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 13 12:39 AM
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                IMHO for a very high number of points / tracks, a GPX file is not the best solution. Instead you should store them in some sort of data base, and extract in GPX format only part of points, for example selected by country, type, ...
                Easier to update data, higher limits in data numbers.
                Louis

                > 2007/9/12, Dan Anderson <dananderson2@...>:
                >
                > > Any given program may have some limit. I think you can find a program
                > > that would let you have 30,000 tracks. One track may also have more
                > > than one segment; however, depending on the program, the separate
                > > segments may or may not be drawn connected. If you run into a track
                > > limit, a program that displays separate segments within a track may help.
                >
                > Actually, I don't target any specific software, I just want to add a
                > GPX export feature to my cave survey freeware. I know a user would use
                > it with OziExplorer, but others could use PathAway on a Palm or
                > anything else. I am just trying to find the most efficient GPX
                > approach with regards to data types. I plan to build a trial GPX file
                > to send to some GPS users (and cavers.)
                >
                >
                > Luc Le Blanc
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


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              • Simon Slavin
                ... There are no limits on the number of points or tracks a GPX file can hold. It s limited only by the ability of your software. I ve tested my software on
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 13 3:27 AM
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                  On 11 Sep 2007, at 11:54pm, Luc Le Blanc wrote:

                  > 2007/9/11, Dan Anderson <dananderson2@...>:
                  >> --- In gpsxml@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Le Blanc" <speleoluc@...> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> A cave line plot consists of (visible) stations, i.e. named points,
                  >>> each with a geographic location, linked in pairs by survey shots,
                  >>> i.e.
                  >>> (visible) line segments that can carry a comment.
                  >>>
                  >>> A cave or network of caves can be anywhere between 100-30,000+
                  >>> survey
                  >>> shots linking a comparable number of stations.
                  >>>
                  >>> I could use wptType to hold stations, but it then seems overkill to
                  >>> declare a route for each pair of stations. The ptType/ptsegType
                  >>> seems
                  >>> more appropriate. Do I have better options?
                  >>
                  >> Is there a reason not to use tracks with two points?
                  >
                  >
                  > Because I would have as many tracks as survey shots (the software does
                  > not "know' passages, only single survey shots). Isn't there a limit on
                  > these? I recall reading something about this.

                  There are no limits on the number of points or tracks a GPX file can
                  hold. It's limited only by the ability of your software. I've
                  tested my software on a GPX file with 130,000 waypoints and it works
                  fine, albeit slowly, for that many points. However, the
                  documentation for the software you're using may suggest it has a
                  lower limit.

                  There are advantages to using waypoints and either routes or tracks
                  for each of your shots: lots of GPX software understands routes and
                  tracks. However, there's no reason why you shouldn't use segments in
                  there, if you're certain that the software you want understands
                  ptsegType and does something useful with it.

                  Simon.
                • Luc Le Blanc
                  ... I am not the repository of each user s data and I don t want to force my users into converting the data back into a GPX via a proprietary format. Auriga is
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 13 4:04 AM
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                    2007/9/13, Louis <clovis@...>:

                    > IMHO for a very high number of points / tracks, a GPX file is not the best solution. Instead you should store them in some sort of data base, and extract in GPX format only part of points, for example selected by country, type, ...

                    I am not the repository of each user's data and I don't want to force
                    my users into converting the data back into a GPX via a proprietary
                    format. Auriga is a field tool (runs on a PalmOS PDA), likely used
                    away from a PC. GPX is a readily usable format for mapping software,
                    such as PathAway that also runs under PalmOS. Each cave is stored as
                    a unique database on the PDA and it makes sense it exports as a unique
                    GPX file. Most people won't ever get close to the limit.

                    My only question is: which GPX data type pair is best suited to hold
                    stations+names and segments+comments for a couple of thousands of
                    each.


                    Luc Le Blanc
                  • Dan Foster
                    Hello, ... After looking at screenshots of your program, I would recommend storing stations as and segments as . -- Dan Foster
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 13 7:12 AM
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                      Hello,

                      Thursday, September 13, 2007, 7:04:28 AM, Luc wrote:

                      > My only question is: which GPX data type pair is best suited to hold
                      > stations+names and segments+comments for a couple of thousands of
                      > each.

                      After looking at screenshots of your program, I would recommend
                      storing stations as <wpt> and segments as <trk>.

                      --
                      Dan Foster
                    • Luc Le Blanc
                      ... If I use for stations, won t I have to duplicate the lat/lon info in the tag? I don t see a way to first declare all my (e.g.
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 14 8:08 AM
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                        2007/9/13, Simon Slavin <slavins@...>:

                        > There are advantages to using waypoints and either routes or tracks
                        > for each of your shots: lots of GPX software understands routes and
                        > tracks. However, there's no reason why you shouldn't use segments in
                        > there, if you're certain that the software you want understands
                        > ptsegType and does something useful with it.

                        If I use <wpt> for stations, won't I have to duplicate the lat/lon
                        info in the <trk/trkseg> tag? I don't see a way to first declare all
                        my <wpt> (e.g. stations) and then refer to them by name in the <trk>
                        tag. The <rte> tag could do it, but if software is as limited as GPS
                        with regards to number of routes, it's not a good choice :(


                        Luc Le Blanc
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