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Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.

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  • nilesdickniles2000
    ... Hello Seth! I m sorry to say that I have not yet viewed your DVD, although I have read the story about it in Today s Cacher (Filming the Ulmer Interview),
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
      --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
      >
      > Have you seen the cool interview with him in the geocaching DVD?
      >
      > Seth!
      >
      Hello Seth!

      I'm sorry to say that I have not yet viewed your DVD, although I
      have read the story about it in Today's Cacher (Filming the Ulmer
      Interview), by TEAM 360.

      http://www.todayscacher.com/2005/feb/people2.asp

      I was pleasured, myself, to interview Dave back in April, 2004 by
      phone and email for an interview in the same magazine.

      http://www.todayscacher.com/2004/may/people.html

      The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently,
      the drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
      and Jack Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching,
      both giving credit to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer
      to Ulmer as "a someone" in their own brief history published on
      their site.
    • Seth! Leary
      I don t think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and GC.com. My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may have been
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
        I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and GC.com.
        My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may have
        been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation. However,
        in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and with Dave, I
        have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly miscommunication and
        that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that Dave's name has
        not been restored to the website in part because there have just been too
        many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they
        need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.

        As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with both Dave
        and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another, either.) They
        are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the genesis
        and success of the game.

        Cheers,
        Seth!

        "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
        drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video and Jack
        Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both giving credit
        to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a someone" in
        their own brief history published on their site."
      • navicach
        Not to draw this way out but you need to dig deeper into the Geocaching forums. dave is a great guy. It would seem his main concern was the lands and what
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
          Not to draw this way out but you need to dig deeper into the Geocaching
          forums. dave is a great guy. It would seem his main concern was the lands
          and what could happen to them as a result of Geocaching. He knew that one
          day it could and would get to be as big as it is today.
          He never was given his fair due by those on that Geocaching website (meaning
          the creators)

          You have Dave who wanted to protect the outdoors and you have Jeremy who
          wanted to make a buck.
          There were some pretty harsh things said to Dave over this time frame.
          I have been Geocaching and involved with it before the sites were ever
          created, back when you could only find fragments of chatter in the news
          group. One person came up with the term and another ran with it and said he
          "coined" the term, making sure to quickly apply for copyright.

          Then you have Buxley who I have chatted with several times over the years.
          He has by far the best maps in the world for Geocaching and all he wanted to
          do was to provide a fun and accurate means for people to locate caches, then
          he was shut down. But not before his mapping idea was stolen and used on
          that site also. This has also happened to my own site at navicache.com...
          The icons you see on each cache page showing if park, water, fee, etc, was
          created by us at navicache, but now they are also listed there.

          Buxley never charged for his data and nor have I over the years. We were
          created to keep "ONE" site from having total say over what happens in the
          sport.
          If there was just a single site how easy would it be to name any price they
          wanted to use it, hard to do when people are given an alternate source.
          He is famous for never giving credit when due, but takes all of it he can
          get his hands on.
          I did a national news story with ABC and Peter Jennings a while back where I
          took a full camera crew and Dan Harris out caching. During this time which
          was well over 6 hours for a 6 minute story on air I mentionded both
          Geocaching.com and also Buxleys maps a few dozen times. I just wanted to get
          the word out about Geocaching as a sport and not as a business. When it went
          to air all over the world the edited version showed my website at navicache
          as well as the actual cache hunt with me and my family, not once did it
          mention the other sites even though I pushed them just as much as my own.
          When Jeremy saw this he quickly posted in his forum how I made it a point to
          mention only my website and not his. He seemed to have forgotten that things
          do end up on the editing room floor. But over the years of me mentioning his
          site in newspapers and magazines I have been in, not once have I seen him
          return the favor of plugging anyone elses website other than his unless
          there was a profit to be gained.
          Heck, it's a business to him and I can't blame a man for making a dollar,
          but there are more respectable ways of doing it without sticking the knife
          in the other guys back.
          Dave needs to be recognized as the Guru of Geocaching, give him what he
          deserves and respect his opinion and leave it at that.

          Just my two (perhaps 3) cents.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Seth! Leary" <email@...>
          To: <gpsstash@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:29 PM
          Subject: RE: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.


          >I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and
          >GC.com.
          > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may
          > have
          > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
          > However,
          > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and with Dave,
          > I
          > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly miscommunication
          > and
          > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that Dave's name
          > has
          > not been restored to the website in part because there have just been too
          > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they
          > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
          >
          > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with both
          > Dave
          > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another, either.) They
          > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the genesis
          > and success of the game.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Seth!
          >
          > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
          > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video and Jack
          > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both giving credit
          > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a someone"
          > in
          > their own brief history published on their site."
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The gpsstash page
          > http://www.geocaching.com
          >
          > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
          > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Seth! Leary
          Thanks for the 3 cents! It s helpful to hear some other perspective. Do you know if the ABC segment is available on the Web? When did it air? - !
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
            Thanks for the 3 cents! It's helpful to hear some other perspective. Do you
            know if the ABC segment is available on the Web? When did it air?

            - !
          • nilesdickniles2000
            I have never met Jeremy or Dave. I have exchanged various communications with both men. I agree, both of them have an important niche in our game. Although
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
              I have never met Jeremy or Dave. I have exchanged various
              communications with both men. I agree, both of them have an
              important niche in our game. Although both have gone on record with
              concepts with which I disagree, I respect both of them for what they
              have contributed to geocaching.

              Seth! Says, "I suspect that Dave's name has not been restored to the
              website in part because there have just been too many other things
              to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they need to keep
              it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection."

              It's difficult for me to believe that there are too many things to
              do that would preempt the simple inclusion of Dave's name in the
              GC.com history. I'm sure there is much to do to maintain a website
              of that size and quality, but how long would be required to make the
              change?

              If there are legal reasons for not doing this, then I guess the
              (hidden) drama really does continue.

              Whatever is the reason, the exclusion of Dave's credit in the
              GC.com 'brief history' is not fair to the thousands of people,
              including myself, who support that website.
            • Leif Gregory
              Hello navicach, ... Exactly. I don t begrudge Jeremy in making his buck. In fact I admire the fact that he dedicated the time, energy and initial money to
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 5, 2006
                Hello navicach,

                Saturday, March 4, 2006, 11:26:09 AM, you wrote:
                > Buxley never charged for his data and nor have I over the years. We
                > were created to keep "ONE" site from having total say over what
                > happens in the sport.

                Exactly. I don't begrudge Jeremy in making his buck. In fact I admire
                the fact that he dedicated the time, energy and initial money to build
                out gc.com. As a web developer myself, I know what kind of commitment
                that takes. However, I'm also a huge proponent of opensource and the
                inherent community sharing that goes with that.

                Most of the web applications I've written are under GPL and are free
                for anyone to use on their own site. When I decided to write the a GPX
                Generator for geocaches, I had a really hard time pulling together the
                information to build them. Primarily, the problem was that without
                writing the GPX files using the groundspeak namespace, most existing
                applications won't import them properly. I had asked others during the
                development time of whether there was a fairly widely adopted
                namespace that was opensource, but was unable to find one.

                Granted, Jeremy has stated in his forums that the use of the
                groudspeak namespace is allowed, but I had hoped for a namespace that
                was not tied to a commercial enterprise.

                Shameless plug: http://gps.pcwize.com/gpx_generator.php

                The whole reason I created this was that people could create a GPX
                file of their cache to post on their websites or to give away to
                anyone they wanted without any strings attached. I felt it was
                necessary because gc.com's TOS specifically prohibits you from
                redistributing the GPX of your cache listed with them.

                > If there was just a single site how easy would it be to name any
                > price they wanted to use it, hard to do when people are given an
                > alternate source. He is famous for never giving credit when due, but
                > takes all of it he can get his hands on.

                I agree 100%. I'm a paying member of gc.com because I'm a paperless
                cacher and find the Pocket Queries indispensable, but the problem as I
                see it now is that people are basically "lazy" (I use that word in the
                lightest sense). What I mean by this is that if you have hidden a
                cache, you don't want to have to re-enter your cache info numerous
                times at various sites. I personally would like to see a GPX import
                for cache listing sites so that you could create a GPX of your cache
                in something like GSAK, then just import it once you've logged into
                the cache listing sites. Heck, even better would be a cache
                clearinghouse, so to speak, where you upload your GPX file to one site
                and it then submits your cache to numerous cache listing sites for
                you. A one stop shop.

                Can it be done. Absolutely.. The problem would be getting cache
                listing sites on board with it.

                We can all dream can't we! <grin>


                --
                TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B
                __ ____ ____ ____ Geocaching: http://gps.PCWize.com
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                CENSORED BY THE TAGLINE POLICE
              • ICSFSEDoD
                Correct, Jeremy is Richard Cranium. The drama continues not so much with Dave any longer, but with anyone that claims credit for anything related to
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 5, 2006
                  Correct, Jeremy is Richard Cranium.

                  The drama continues not so much with Dave any longer, but with anyone that
                  claims credit for anything related to Geocaching. Richard Crainum whines
                  and claims credit, deletes posts on his forum that contradict what he think
                  is the story and the world goes on. I'm prefer to not do business with him,
                  but realistically, that isn't an option. I really Navicache and liked
                  Buxley's but gc.com is the popular site.

                  Oh well, life goes on.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "navicach" <navicach@...>
                  To: <gpsstash@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:26 PM
                  Subject: Re: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.


                  > Not to draw this way out but you need to dig deeper into the Geocaching
                  > forums. dave is a great guy. It would seem his main concern was the lands
                  > and what could happen to them as a result of Geocaching. He knew that one
                  > day it could and would get to be as big as it is today.
                  > He never was given his fair due by those on that Geocaching website
                  > (meaning
                  > the creators)
                  >
                  > You have Dave who wanted to protect the outdoors and you have Jeremy who
                  > wanted to make a buck.
                  > There were some pretty harsh things said to Dave over this time frame.
                  > I have been Geocaching and involved with it before the sites were ever
                  > created, back when you could only find fragments of chatter in the news
                  > group. One person came up with the term and another ran with it and said
                  > he
                  > "coined" the term, making sure to quickly apply for copyright.
                  >
                  > Then you have Buxley who I have chatted with several times over the years.
                  > He has by far the best maps in the world for Geocaching and all he wanted
                  > to
                  > do was to provide a fun and accurate means for people to locate caches,
                  > then
                  > he was shut down. But not before his mapping idea was stolen and used on
                  > that site also. This has also happened to my own site at navicache.com...
                  > The icons you see on each cache page showing if park, water, fee, etc, was
                  > created by us at navicache, but now they are also listed there.
                  >
                  > Buxley never charged for his data and nor have I over the years. We were
                  > created to keep "ONE" site from having total say over what happens in the
                  > sport.
                  > If there was just a single site how easy would it be to name any price
                  > they
                  > wanted to use it, hard to do when people are given an alternate source.
                  > He is famous for never giving credit when due, but takes all of it he can
                  > get his hands on.
                  > I did a national news story with ABC and Peter Jennings a while back where
                  > I
                  > took a full camera crew and Dan Harris out caching. During this time which
                  > was well over 6 hours for a 6 minute story on air I mentionded both
                  > Geocaching.com and also Buxleys maps a few dozen times. I just wanted to
                  > get
                  > the word out about Geocaching as a sport and not as a business. When it
                  > went
                  > to air all over the world the edited version showed my website at
                  > navicache
                  > as well as the actual cache hunt with me and my family, not once did it
                  > mention the other sites even though I pushed them just as much as my own.
                  > When Jeremy saw this he quickly posted in his forum how I made it a point
                  > to
                  > mention only my website and not his. He seemed to have forgotten that
                  > things
                  > do end up on the editing room floor. But over the years of me mentioning
                  > his
                  > site in newspapers and magazines I have been in, not once have I seen him
                  > return the favor of plugging anyone elses website other than his unless
                  > there was a profit to be gained.
                  > Heck, it's a business to him and I can't blame a man for making a dollar,
                  > but there are more respectable ways of doing it without sticking the knife
                  > in the other guys back.
                  > Dave needs to be recognized as the Guru of Geocaching, give him what he
                  > deserves and respect his opinion and leave it at that.
                  >
                  > Just my two (perhaps 3) cents.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Seth! Leary" <email@...>
                  > To: <gpsstash@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:29 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.
                  >
                  >
                  >>I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and
                  >>GC.com.
                  >> My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may
                  >> have
                  >> been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                  >> However,
                  >> in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and with Dave,
                  >> I
                  >> have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly miscommunication
                  >> and
                  >> that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that Dave's name
                  >> has
                  >> not been restored to the website in part because there have just been too
                  >> many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they
                  >> need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                  >>
                  >> As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with both
                  >> Dave
                  >> and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another, either.)
                  >> They
                  >> are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                  >> genesis
                  >> and success of the game.
                  >>
                  >> Cheers,
                  >> Seth!
                  >>
                  >> "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
                  >> drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video and Jack
                  >> Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both giving
                  >> credit
                  >> to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a someone"
                  >> in
                  >> their own brief history published on their site."
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> The gpsstash page
                  >> http://www.geocaching.com
                  >>
                  >> Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                  >> http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The gpsstash page
                  > http://www.geocaching.com
                  >
                  > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                  > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • sept1c_tank
                  I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave Ulmer, He abandoned
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 18, 2006
                    I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and
                    Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave
                    Ulmer, "He abandoned geocaching to be raised by wolvesÂ…"

                    http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?
                    s=&showtopic=129883&view=findpost&p=2160026

                    --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave
                    and GC.com.
                    > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things
                    may have
                    > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                    However,
                    > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and
                    with Dave, I
                    > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly
                    miscommunication and
                    > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that
                    Dave's name has
                    > not been restored to the website in part because there have just
                    been too
                    > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons
                    why they
                    > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                    >
                    > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with
                    both Dave
                    > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another,
                    either.) They
                    > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                    genesis
                    > and success of the game.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Seth!
                    >
                    > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic.
                    Apparently, the
                    > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
                    and Jack
                    > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both
                    giving credit
                    > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a
                    someone" in
                    > their own brief history published on their site."
                    >
                  • Joe
                    So wouldn t his statement there mean that Jeremy and the gang at GC.com are the wolves? I don t think thats the way I would want myself pictured... ...
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 19, 2006
                      So wouldn't his statement there mean that Jeremy and the gang at GC.com
                      are the wolves? I don't think thats the way I would want myself pictured...

                      sept1c_tank wrote:

                      > I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and
                      > Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave
                      > Ulmer, "He abandoned geocaching to be raised by wolves..."
                      >
                      > http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?
                      > s=&showtopic=129883&view=findpost&p=2160026
                      >
                      > --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave
                      > and GC.com.
                      > > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things
                      > may have
                      > > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                      > However,
                      > > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and
                      > with Dave, I
                      > > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly
                      > miscommunication and
                      > > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that
                      > Dave's name has
                      > > not been restored to the website in part because there have just
                      > been too
                      > > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons
                      > why they
                      > > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                      > >
                      > > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with
                      > both Dave
                      > > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another,
                      > either.) They
                      > > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                      > genesis
                      > > and success of the game.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers,
                      > > Seth!
                      > >
                      > > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic.
                      > Apparently, the
                      > > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
                      > and Jack
                      > > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both
                      > giving credit
                      > > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a
                      > someone" in
                      > > their own brief history published on their site."
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Cache listing services:
                      > http://geocaching.com
                      > http://geopeitus.ee
                      > http://navicache.com
                      > http://geocaching.hu
                      > http://geocaching.ru
                      > http://geocaching.gpsgames.org
                      > http://terracaching.com
                      > http://movingcache.com
                      > http://geocaching.com.au
                      > http://opencaching.de
                      >
                      > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                      > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >
                      > * Visit your group "gpsstash
                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsstash>" on the web.
                      >
                      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                      >
                      > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • geo welch
                      Or maybe that Jeremy saved geocaching from the wolves? welch ... -- ___________________________________________________ Play 100s of games for FREE!
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 19, 2006
                        Or maybe that Jeremy 'saved' geocaching from the wolves?

                        welch
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Joe <slumbersix@...>
                        > To: gpsstash@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [GPSstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.
                        > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:26:12 -0400
                        >
                        >
                        > So wouldn't his statement there mean that Jeremy and the gang at GC.com
                        > are the wolves? I don't think thats the way I would want myself pictured...
                        >
                        > sept1c_tank wrote:
                        >
                        > > I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and
                        > > Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave
                        > > Ulmer, "He abandoned geocaching to be raised by wolves..."
                        > >
                        > > http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?
                        > > s=&showtopic=129883&view=findpost&p=2160026
                        > >
                        > > --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave
                        > > and GC.com.
                        > > > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things
                        > > may have
                        > > > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                        > > However,
                        > > > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and
                        > > with Dave, I
                        > > > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly
                        > > miscommunication and
                        > > > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that
                        > > Dave's name has
                        > > > not been restored to the website in part because there have just
                        > > been too
                        > > > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons
                        > > why they
                        > > > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                        > > >
                        > > > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with
                        > > both Dave
                        > > > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another,
                        > > either.) They
                        > > > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                        > > genesis
                        > > > and success of the game.
                        > > >
                        > > > Cheers,
                        > > > Seth!
                        > > >
                        > > > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
                        > > > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
                        > > and Jack
                        > > > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both
                        > > giving credit
                        > > > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a
                        > > someone" in
                        > > > their own brief history published on their site."
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Cache listing services:
                        > > http://geocaching.com
                        > > http://geopeitus.ee
                        > > http://navicache.com
                        > > http://geocaching.hu
                        > > http://geocaching.ru
                        > > http://geocaching.gpsgames.org
                        > > http://terracaching.com
                        > > http://movingcache.com
                        > > http://geocaching.com.au
                        > > http://opencaching.de
                        > >
                        > > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                        > > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                        > >
                        > > * Visit your group "gpsstash
                        > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsstash>" on the web.
                        > >
                        > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                        > >
                        > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        >


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                        ___________________________________________________
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                      • Joe
                        Thats true too... But I like to think that Jeremy meant he s a wolf.... ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 19, 2006
                          Thats true too... But I like to think that Jeremy meant he's a wolf....

                          geo welch wrote:

                          > Or maybe that Jeremy 'saved' geocaching from the wolves?
                          >
                          > welch
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: Joe <slumbersix@...>
                          > > To: gpsstash@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: Re: [GPSstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.
                          > > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:26:12 -0400
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > So wouldn't his statement there mean that Jeremy and the gang at GC.com
                          > > are the wolves? I don't think thats the way I would want myself
                          > pictured...
                          > >
                          > > sept1c_tank wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and
                          > > > Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave
                          > > > Ulmer, "He abandoned geocaching to be raised by wolves..."
                          > > >
                          > > > http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?
                          > > > s=&showtopic=129883&view=findpost&p=2160026
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave
                          > > > and GC.com.
                          > > > > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things
                          > > > may have
                          > > > > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                          > > > However,
                          > > > > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and
                          > > > with Dave, I
                          > > > > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly
                          > > > miscommunication and
                          > > > > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that
                          > > > Dave's name has
                          > > > > not been restored to the website in part because there have just
                          > > > been too
                          > > > > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons
                          > > > why they
                          > > > > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with
                          > > > both Dave
                          > > > > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another,
                          > > > either.) They
                          > > > > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                          > > > genesis
                          > > > > and success of the game.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Cheers,
                          > > > > Seth!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic.
                          > Apparently, the
                          > > > > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
                          > > > and Jack
                          > > > > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both
                          > > > giving credit
                          > > > > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a
                          > > > someone" in
                          > > > > their own brief history published on their site."
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Cache listing services:
                          > > > http://geocaching.com
                          > > > http://geopeitus.ee
                          > > > http://navicache.com
                          > > > http://geocaching.hu
                          > > > http://geocaching.ru
                          > > > http://geocaching.gpsgames.org
                          > > > http://terracaching.com
                          > > > http://movingcache.com
                          > > > http://geocaching.com.au
                          > > > http://opencaching.de
                          > > >
                          > > > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                          > > > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                          > > >
                          > > > * Visit your group "gpsstash
                          > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsstash>" on the web.
                          > > >
                          > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > > gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > >
                          > <mailto:gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                          > > >
                          > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          > > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > ___________________________________________________
                          > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Cache listing services:
                          > http://geocaching.com
                          > http://geopeitus.ee
                          > http://navicache.com
                          > http://geocaching.hu
                          > http://geocaching.ru
                          > http://geocaching.gpsgames.org
                          > http://terracaching.com
                          > http://movingcache.com
                          > http://geocaching.com.au
                          > http://opencaching.de
                          >
                          > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                          > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                          >
                          > * Visit your group "gpsstash
                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsstash>" on the web.
                          >
                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > <mailto:gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                          >
                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >


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