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Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.

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  • nilesdickniles2000
    Two months from today will mark the sixth anniversary of the invention of geocaching. It s kind of sad that the *official* geocaching website doesn t
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
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      Two months from today will mark the sixth anniversary of the invention
      of geocaching. It's kind of sad that the *official* geocaching
      website doesn't recognize (officially, at least) Dave Ulmer as the
      inventor of this game.

      I've read all the history presented here, and a lot of history from
      other sources. The evolution of geocaching makes for some fascinating
      reading. I hope it (the history) is well preserved.

      Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.
    • Seth! Leary
      Have you seen the cool interview with him in the geocaching DVD? Seth!
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
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        Have you seen the cool interview with him in the geocaching DVD?

        Seth!
      • nilesdickniles2000
        ... Hello Seth! I m sorry to say that I have not yet viewed your DVD, although I have read the story about it in Today s Cacher (Filming the Ulmer Interview),
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
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          --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
          >
          > Have you seen the cool interview with him in the geocaching DVD?
          >
          > Seth!
          >
          Hello Seth!

          I'm sorry to say that I have not yet viewed your DVD, although I
          have read the story about it in Today's Cacher (Filming the Ulmer
          Interview), by TEAM 360.

          http://www.todayscacher.com/2005/feb/people2.asp

          I was pleasured, myself, to interview Dave back in April, 2004 by
          phone and email for an interview in the same magazine.

          http://www.todayscacher.com/2004/may/people.html

          The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently,
          the drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
          and Jack Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching,
          both giving credit to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer
          to Ulmer as "a someone" in their own brief history published on
          their site.
        • Seth! Leary
          I don t think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and GC.com. My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may have been
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
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            I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and GC.com.
            My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may have
            been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation. However,
            in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and with Dave, I
            have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly miscommunication and
            that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that Dave's name has
            not been restored to the website in part because there have just been too
            many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they
            need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.

            As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with both Dave
            and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another, either.) They
            are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the genesis
            and success of the game.

            Cheers,
            Seth!

            "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
            drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video and Jack
            Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both giving credit
            to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a someone" in
            their own brief history published on their site."
          • navicach
            Not to draw this way out but you need to dig deeper into the Geocaching forums. dave is a great guy. It would seem his main concern was the lands and what
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
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              Not to draw this way out but you need to dig deeper into the Geocaching
              forums. dave is a great guy. It would seem his main concern was the lands
              and what could happen to them as a result of Geocaching. He knew that one
              day it could and would get to be as big as it is today.
              He never was given his fair due by those on that Geocaching website (meaning
              the creators)

              You have Dave who wanted to protect the outdoors and you have Jeremy who
              wanted to make a buck.
              There were some pretty harsh things said to Dave over this time frame.
              I have been Geocaching and involved with it before the sites were ever
              created, back when you could only find fragments of chatter in the news
              group. One person came up with the term and another ran with it and said he
              "coined" the term, making sure to quickly apply for copyright.

              Then you have Buxley who I have chatted with several times over the years.
              He has by far the best maps in the world for Geocaching and all he wanted to
              do was to provide a fun and accurate means for people to locate caches, then
              he was shut down. But not before his mapping idea was stolen and used on
              that site also. This has also happened to my own site at navicache.com...
              The icons you see on each cache page showing if park, water, fee, etc, was
              created by us at navicache, but now they are also listed there.

              Buxley never charged for his data and nor have I over the years. We were
              created to keep "ONE" site from having total say over what happens in the
              sport.
              If there was just a single site how easy would it be to name any price they
              wanted to use it, hard to do when people are given an alternate source.
              He is famous for never giving credit when due, but takes all of it he can
              get his hands on.
              I did a national news story with ABC and Peter Jennings a while back where I
              took a full camera crew and Dan Harris out caching. During this time which
              was well over 6 hours for a 6 minute story on air I mentionded both
              Geocaching.com and also Buxleys maps a few dozen times. I just wanted to get
              the word out about Geocaching as a sport and not as a business. When it went
              to air all over the world the edited version showed my website at navicache
              as well as the actual cache hunt with me and my family, not once did it
              mention the other sites even though I pushed them just as much as my own.
              When Jeremy saw this he quickly posted in his forum how I made it a point to
              mention only my website and not his. He seemed to have forgotten that things
              do end up on the editing room floor. But over the years of me mentioning his
              site in newspapers and magazines I have been in, not once have I seen him
              return the favor of plugging anyone elses website other than his unless
              there was a profit to be gained.
              Heck, it's a business to him and I can't blame a man for making a dollar,
              but there are more respectable ways of doing it without sticking the knife
              in the other guys back.
              Dave needs to be recognized as the Guru of Geocaching, give him what he
              deserves and respect his opinion and leave it at that.

              Just my two (perhaps 3) cents.


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Seth! Leary" <email@...>
              To: <gpsstash@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:29 PM
              Subject: RE: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.


              >I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and
              >GC.com.
              > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may
              > have
              > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
              > However,
              > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and with Dave,
              > I
              > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly miscommunication
              > and
              > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that Dave's name
              > has
              > not been restored to the website in part because there have just been too
              > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they
              > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
              >
              > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with both
              > Dave
              > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another, either.) They
              > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the genesis
              > and success of the game.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Seth!
              >
              > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
              > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video and Jack
              > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both giving credit
              > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a someone"
              > in
              > their own brief history published on their site."
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The gpsstash page
              > http://www.geocaching.com
              >
              > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
              > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Seth! Leary
              Thanks for the 3 cents! It s helpful to hear some other perspective. Do you know if the ABC segment is available on the Web? When did it air? - !
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
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                Thanks for the 3 cents! It's helpful to hear some other perspective. Do you
                know if the ABC segment is available on the Web? When did it air?

                - !
              • nilesdickniles2000
                I have never met Jeremy or Dave. I have exchanged various communications with both men. I agree, both of them have an important niche in our game. Although
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 4, 2006
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                  I have never met Jeremy or Dave. I have exchanged various
                  communications with both men. I agree, both of them have an
                  important niche in our game. Although both have gone on record with
                  concepts with which I disagree, I respect both of them for what they
                  have contributed to geocaching.

                  Seth! Says, "I suspect that Dave's name has not been restored to the
                  website in part because there have just been too many other things
                  to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they need to keep
                  it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection."

                  It's difficult for me to believe that there are too many things to
                  do that would preempt the simple inclusion of Dave's name in the
                  GC.com history. I'm sure there is much to do to maintain a website
                  of that size and quality, but how long would be required to make the
                  change?

                  If there are legal reasons for not doing this, then I guess the
                  (hidden) drama really does continue.

                  Whatever is the reason, the exclusion of Dave's credit in the
                  GC.com 'brief history' is not fair to the thousands of people,
                  including myself, who support that website.
                • Leif Gregory
                  Hello navicach, ... Exactly. I don t begrudge Jeremy in making his buck. In fact I admire the fact that he dedicated the time, energy and initial money to
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 5, 2006
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                    Hello navicach,

                    Saturday, March 4, 2006, 11:26:09 AM, you wrote:
                    > Buxley never charged for his data and nor have I over the years. We
                    > were created to keep "ONE" site from having total say over what
                    > happens in the sport.

                    Exactly. I don't begrudge Jeremy in making his buck. In fact I admire
                    the fact that he dedicated the time, energy and initial money to build
                    out gc.com. As a web developer myself, I know what kind of commitment
                    that takes. However, I'm also a huge proponent of opensource and the
                    inherent community sharing that goes with that.

                    Most of the web applications I've written are under GPL and are free
                    for anyone to use on their own site. When I decided to write the a GPX
                    Generator for geocaches, I had a really hard time pulling together the
                    information to build them. Primarily, the problem was that without
                    writing the GPX files using the groundspeak namespace, most existing
                    applications won't import them properly. I had asked others during the
                    development time of whether there was a fairly widely adopted
                    namespace that was opensource, but was unable to find one.

                    Granted, Jeremy has stated in his forums that the use of the
                    groudspeak namespace is allowed, but I had hoped for a namespace that
                    was not tied to a commercial enterprise.

                    Shameless plug: http://gps.pcwize.com/gpx_generator.php

                    The whole reason I created this was that people could create a GPX
                    file of their cache to post on their websites or to give away to
                    anyone they wanted without any strings attached. I felt it was
                    necessary because gc.com's TOS specifically prohibits you from
                    redistributing the GPX of your cache listed with them.

                    > If there was just a single site how easy would it be to name any
                    > price they wanted to use it, hard to do when people are given an
                    > alternate source. He is famous for never giving credit when due, but
                    > takes all of it he can get his hands on.

                    I agree 100%. I'm a paying member of gc.com because I'm a paperless
                    cacher and find the Pocket Queries indispensable, but the problem as I
                    see it now is that people are basically "lazy" (I use that word in the
                    lightest sense). What I mean by this is that if you have hidden a
                    cache, you don't want to have to re-enter your cache info numerous
                    times at various sites. I personally would like to see a GPX import
                    for cache listing sites so that you could create a GPX of your cache
                    in something like GSAK, then just import it once you've logged into
                    the cache listing sites. Heck, even better would be a cache
                    clearinghouse, so to speak, where you upload your GPX file to one site
                    and it then submits your cache to numerous cache listing sites for
                    you. A one stop shop.

                    Can it be done. Absolutely.. The problem would be getting cache
                    listing sites on board with it.

                    We can all dream can't we! <grin>


                    --
                    TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B
                    __ ____ ____ ____ Geocaching: http://gps.PCWize.com
                    ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp
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                    CENSORED BY THE TAGLINE POLICE
                  • ICSFSEDoD
                    Correct, Jeremy is Richard Cranium. The drama continues not so much with Dave any longer, but with anyone that claims credit for anything related to
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 5, 2006
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                      Correct, Jeremy is Richard Cranium.

                      The drama continues not so much with Dave any longer, but with anyone that
                      claims credit for anything related to Geocaching. Richard Crainum whines
                      and claims credit, deletes posts on his forum that contradict what he think
                      is the story and the world goes on. I'm prefer to not do business with him,
                      but realistically, that isn't an option. I really Navicache and liked
                      Buxley's but gc.com is the popular site.

                      Oh well, life goes on.


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "navicach" <navicach@...>
                      To: <gpsstash@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:26 PM
                      Subject: Re: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.


                      > Not to draw this way out but you need to dig deeper into the Geocaching
                      > forums. dave is a great guy. It would seem his main concern was the lands
                      > and what could happen to them as a result of Geocaching. He knew that one
                      > day it could and would get to be as big as it is today.
                      > He never was given his fair due by those on that Geocaching website
                      > (meaning
                      > the creators)
                      >
                      > You have Dave who wanted to protect the outdoors and you have Jeremy who
                      > wanted to make a buck.
                      > There were some pretty harsh things said to Dave over this time frame.
                      > I have been Geocaching and involved with it before the sites were ever
                      > created, back when you could only find fragments of chatter in the news
                      > group. One person came up with the term and another ran with it and said
                      > he
                      > "coined" the term, making sure to quickly apply for copyright.
                      >
                      > Then you have Buxley who I have chatted with several times over the years.
                      > He has by far the best maps in the world for Geocaching and all he wanted
                      > to
                      > do was to provide a fun and accurate means for people to locate caches,
                      > then
                      > he was shut down. But not before his mapping idea was stolen and used on
                      > that site also. This has also happened to my own site at navicache.com...
                      > The icons you see on each cache page showing if park, water, fee, etc, was
                      > created by us at navicache, but now they are also listed there.
                      >
                      > Buxley never charged for his data and nor have I over the years. We were
                      > created to keep "ONE" site from having total say over what happens in the
                      > sport.
                      > If there was just a single site how easy would it be to name any price
                      > they
                      > wanted to use it, hard to do when people are given an alternate source.
                      > He is famous for never giving credit when due, but takes all of it he can
                      > get his hands on.
                      > I did a national news story with ABC and Peter Jennings a while back where
                      > I
                      > took a full camera crew and Dan Harris out caching. During this time which
                      > was well over 6 hours for a 6 minute story on air I mentionded both
                      > Geocaching.com and also Buxleys maps a few dozen times. I just wanted to
                      > get
                      > the word out about Geocaching as a sport and not as a business. When it
                      > went
                      > to air all over the world the edited version showed my website at
                      > navicache
                      > as well as the actual cache hunt with me and my family, not once did it
                      > mention the other sites even though I pushed them just as much as my own.
                      > When Jeremy saw this he quickly posted in his forum how I made it a point
                      > to
                      > mention only my website and not his. He seemed to have forgotten that
                      > things
                      > do end up on the editing room floor. But over the years of me mentioning
                      > his
                      > site in newspapers and magazines I have been in, not once have I seen him
                      > return the favor of plugging anyone elses website other than his unless
                      > there was a profit to be gained.
                      > Heck, it's a business to him and I can't blame a man for making a dollar,
                      > but there are more respectable ways of doing it without sticking the knife
                      > in the other guys back.
                      > Dave needs to be recognized as the Guru of Geocaching, give him what he
                      > deserves and respect his opinion and leave it at that.
                      >
                      > Just my two (perhaps 3) cents.
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Seth! Leary" <email@...>
                      > To: <gpsstash@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:29 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [gpsstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.
                      >
                      >
                      >>I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave and
                      >>GC.com.
                      >> My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things may
                      >> have
                      >> been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                      >> However,
                      >> in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and with Dave,
                      >> I
                      >> have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly miscommunication
                      >> and
                      >> that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that Dave's name
                      >> has
                      >> not been restored to the website in part because there have just been too
                      >> many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons why they
                      >> need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                      >>
                      >> As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with both
                      >> Dave
                      >> and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another, either.)
                      >> They
                      >> are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                      >> genesis
                      >> and success of the game.
                      >>
                      >> Cheers,
                      >> Seth!
                      >>
                      >> "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
                      >> drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video and Jack
                      >> Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both giving
                      >> credit
                      >> to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a someone"
                      >> in
                      >> their own brief history published on their site."
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> The gpsstash page
                      >> http://www.geocaching.com
                      >>
                      >> Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                      >> http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The gpsstash page
                      > http://www.geocaching.com
                      >
                      > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                      > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • sept1c_tank
                      I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave Ulmer, He abandoned
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 18, 2006
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                        I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and
                        Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave
                        Ulmer, "He abandoned geocaching to be raised by wolvesÂ…"

                        http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?
                        s=&showtopic=129883&view=findpost&p=2160026

                        --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave
                        and GC.com.
                        > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things
                        may have
                        > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                        However,
                        > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and
                        with Dave, I
                        > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly
                        miscommunication and
                        > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that
                        Dave's name has
                        > not been restored to the website in part because there have just
                        been too
                        > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons
                        why they
                        > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                        >
                        > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with
                        both Dave
                        > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another,
                        either.) They
                        > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                        genesis
                        > and success of the game.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > Seth!
                        >
                        > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic.
                        Apparently, the
                        > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
                        and Jack
                        > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both
                        giving credit
                        > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a
                        someone" in
                        > their own brief history published on their site."
                        >
                      • Joe
                        So wouldn t his statement there mean that Jeremy and the gang at GC.com are the wolves? I don t think thats the way I would want myself pictured... ...
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 19, 2006
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                          So wouldn't his statement there mean that Jeremy and the gang at GC.com
                          are the wolves? I don't think thats the way I would want myself pictured...

                          sept1c_tank wrote:

                          > I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and
                          > Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave
                          > Ulmer, "He abandoned geocaching to be raised by wolves..."
                          >
                          > http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?
                          > s=&showtopic=129883&view=findpost&p=2160026
                          >
                          > --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave
                          > and GC.com.
                          > > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things
                          > may have
                          > > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                          > However,
                          > > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and
                          > with Dave, I
                          > > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly
                          > miscommunication and
                          > > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that
                          > Dave's name has
                          > > not been restored to the website in part because there have just
                          > been too
                          > > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons
                          > why they
                          > > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                          > >
                          > > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with
                          > both Dave
                          > > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another,
                          > either.) They
                          > > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                          > genesis
                          > > and success of the game.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers,
                          > > Seth!
                          > >
                          > > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic.
                          > Apparently, the
                          > > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
                          > and Jack
                          > > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both
                          > giving credit
                          > > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a
                          > someone" in
                          > > their own brief history published on their site."
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Cache listing services:
                          > http://geocaching.com
                          > http://geopeitus.ee
                          > http://navicache.com
                          > http://geocaching.hu
                          > http://geocaching.ru
                          > http://geocaching.gpsgames.org
                          > http://terracaching.com
                          > http://movingcache.com
                          > http://geocaching.com.au
                          > http://opencaching.de
                          >
                          > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                          > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                          >
                          > * Visit your group "gpsstash
                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsstash>" on the web.
                          >
                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > <mailto:gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                          >
                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • geo welch
                          Or maybe that Jeremy saved geocaching from the wolves? welch ... -- ___________________________________________________ Play 100s of games for FREE!
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 19, 2006
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                            Or maybe that Jeremy 'saved' geocaching from the wolves?

                            welch
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Joe <slumbersix@...>
                            > To: gpsstash@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [GPSstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.
                            > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:26:12 -0400
                            >
                            >
                            > So wouldn't his statement there mean that Jeremy and the gang at GC.com
                            > are the wolves? I don't think thats the way I would want myself pictured...
                            >
                            > sept1c_tank wrote:
                            >
                            > > I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and
                            > > Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave
                            > > Ulmer, "He abandoned geocaching to be raised by wolves..."
                            > >
                            > > http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?
                            > > s=&showtopic=129883&view=findpost&p=2160026
                            > >
                            > > --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave
                            > > and GC.com.
                            > > > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things
                            > > may have
                            > > > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                            > > However,
                            > > > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and
                            > > with Dave, I
                            > > > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly
                            > > miscommunication and
                            > > > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that
                            > > Dave's name has
                            > > > not been restored to the website in part because there have just
                            > > been too
                            > > > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons
                            > > why they
                            > > > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                            > > >
                            > > > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with
                            > > both Dave
                            > > > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another,
                            > > either.) They
                            > > > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                            > > genesis
                            > > > and success of the game.
                            > > >
                            > > > Cheers,
                            > > > Seth!
                            > > >
                            > > > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic. Apparently, the
                            > > > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
                            > > and Jack
                            > > > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both
                            > > giving credit
                            > > > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a
                            > > someone" in
                            > > > their own brief history published on their site."
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Cache listing services:
                            > > http://geocaching.com
                            > > http://geopeitus.ee
                            > > http://navicache.com
                            > > http://geocaching.hu
                            > > http://geocaching.ru
                            > > http://geocaching.gpsgames.org
                            > > http://terracaching.com
                            > > http://movingcache.com
                            > > http://geocaching.com.au
                            > > http://opencaching.de
                            > >
                            > > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                            > > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                            > >
                            > > * Visit your group "gpsstash
                            > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsstash>" on the web.
                            > >
                            > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > <mailto:gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                            > >
                            > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            >


                            --
                            ___________________________________________________
                            Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
                          • Joe
                            Thats true too... But I like to think that Jeremy meant he s a wolf.... ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 19, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thats true too... But I like to think that Jeremy meant he's a wolf....

                              geo welch wrote:

                              > Or maybe that Jeremy 'saved' geocaching from the wolves?
                              >
                              > welch
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Joe <slumbersix@...>
                              > > To: gpsstash@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: Re: [GPSstash] Re: Thank you, Dave Ulmer, for your wacky idea.
                              > > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:26:12 -0400
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > So wouldn't his statement there mean that Jeremy and the gang at GC.com
                              > > are the wolves? I don't think thats the way I would want myself
                              > pictured...
                              > >
                              > > sept1c_tank wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > I guess there may still be some hard feelings between Jeremy and
                              > > > Dave Ulmer; in a recent forum post, Jeremy said, referring to Dave
                              > > > Ulmer, "He abandoned geocaching to be raised by wolves..."
                              > > >
                              > > > http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?
                              > > > s=&showtopic=129883&view=findpost&p=2160026
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In gpsstash@yahoogroups.com, "Seth! Leary" <email@...> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I don't think that there is -currently- any drama regarding Dave
                              > > > and GC.com.
                              > > > > My understanding is that, at various times a few years ago, things
                              > > > may have
                              > > > > been said/done by both parties that caused some mutual alienation.
                              > > > However,
                              > > > > in the time that I have spent with the guys at the website and
                              > > > with Dave, I
                              > > > > have gotten the distinct impression that it was mostly
                              > > > miscommunication and
                              > > > > that there remain few, if any, hard feelings. I suspect that
                              > > > Dave's name has
                              > > > > not been restored to the website in part because there have just
                              > > > been too
                              > > > > many other things to do. Plus, there could be some legal reasons
                              > > > why they
                              > > > > need to keep it somewhat anonymous, for self-protection.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > As far as I know, I'm the only person who has gone geocaching with
                              > > > both Dave
                              > > > > and Jeremy. (I don't believe they have ever met one another,
                              > > > either.) They
                              > > > > are both really nice guys and each deserve heaps of credit for the
                              > > > genesis
                              > > > > and success of the game.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Cheers,
                              > > > > Seth!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > "The history of our game is rich and at times dramatic.
                              > Apparently, the
                              > > > > drama continues over at GC.com. They happily promote your video
                              > > > and Jack
                              > > > > Peters' book, The Complete Idiot's guide to Geocaching, both
                              > > > giving credit
                              > > > > to Ulmer for the first cache hide, they but refer to Ulmer as "a
                              > > > someone" in
                              > > > > their own brief history published on their site."
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Cache listing services:
                              > > > http://geocaching.com
                              > > > http://geopeitus.ee
                              > > > http://navicache.com
                              > > > http://geocaching.hu
                              > > > http://geocaching.ru
                              > > > http://geocaching.gpsgames.org
                              > > > http://terracaching.com
                              > > > http://movingcache.com
                              > > > http://geocaching.com.au
                              > > > http://opencaching.de
                              > > >
                              > > > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                              > > > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                              > > >
                              > > > * Visit your group "gpsstash
                              > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsstash>" on the web.
                              > > >
                              > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > > > gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >
                              > <mailto:gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                              > > >
                              > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              > > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > ___________________________________________________
                              > Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Cache listing services:
                              > http://geocaching.com
                              > http://geopeitus.ee
                              > http://navicache.com
                              > http://geocaching.hu
                              > http://geocaching.ru
                              > http://geocaching.gpsgames.org
                              > http://terracaching.com
                              > http://movingcache.com
                              > http://geocaching.com.au
                              > http://opencaching.de
                              >
                              > Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint
                              > http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                              >
                              > * Visit your group "gpsstash
                              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gpsstash>" on the web.
                              >
                              > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:gpsstash-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                              >
                              > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >


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