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Don't look now, but B-63 is *back*

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  • Alan Adamson
    looks like it s over the azores currently... Leo s gonna have a two-fer! Alan
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 2, 2014
      looks like it's over the azores currently...

      Leo's gonna have a two-fer!

      Alan
    • Mark Conner
      HYSPLIT has the track dipping south to the Canaries, then back towards Spain/Portugal and across the Med. Sometime late on the 5th or early on the 6th it
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 2, 2014
        HYSPLIT has the track dipping south to the Canaries, then back towards Spain/Portugal and across the Med.  Sometime late on the 5th or early on the 6th it should cross 1° West and will also have circumnavigated the globe.

        73 de Mark N9XTN


        On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Alan Adamson akadamson@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        looks like it's over the azores currently...

        Leo's gonna have a two-fer!

        Alan


        ------------------------------------
        Posted by: Alan Adamson <akadamson@...>
        ------------------------------------


        ------------------------------------

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      • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
        Looks like it was copied right near the edge of the theoretical radio footprint. The large circle is scale at 412 miles radius. The smaller circle is
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 2, 2014
        Looks like it was copied right near the edge of the theoretical radio footprint.



        The large circle is scale at 412 miles radius.  The smaller circle is M0XER-3's radio footprint of 256 miles from 43,000 feet.  As you can see, CU3CQ is right near the edge of that circle.  That packet was copied about 7 minutes ago per the time on this e-mail message or 2014-08-02 21:31:00 zulu.

        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

        On 8/2/2014 4:19 PM, Alan Adamson akadamson@... [GPSL] wrote:
         

        looks like it's over the azores currently...

        Leo's gonna have a two-fer!

        Alan


      • Alan Adamson
        And *who* said you need *HIGH POWER* for above ground objects... 10mW works just fine :)... Now if we could get most of the APRS guys to understand that -
        Message 4 of 10 , Aug 2, 2014
          And *who* said you need *HIGH POWER* for above ground objects... 10mW
          works just fine :)... Now if we could get most of the APRS guys to
          understand that - Maybe I could work the ISS sometime :)

          Alan

          On 8/2/2014 5:38 PM, 'Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)' ldeffenb@...
          [GPSL] wrote:
          > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) included below]
          >
          > Looks like it was copied right near the edge of the theoretical radio
          > footprint.
          >
          >
          >
          > The large circle is scale at 412 miles radius. The smaller circle is
          > M0XER-3's radio footprint of 256 miles from 43,000 feet. As you can
          > see, CU3CQ is right near the edge of that circle. That packet was
          > copied about 7 minutes ago per the time on this e-mail message or
          > 2014-08-02 21:31:00 zulu.
          >
          > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
          >
          > On 8/2/2014 4:19 PM, Alan Adamson akadamson@... [GPSL] wrote:
          >>
          >> looks like it's over the azores currently...
          >>
          >> Leo's gonna have a two-fer!
          >>
          >> Alan
          >>
          >
          >
        • Mike Manes
          For clear line-of-sight, you are absolutely correct. But if one s mission includes recovering all the student experiments on that flight, then 300 mW barely
          Message 5 of 10 , Aug 2, 2014
            For clear line-of-sight, you are absolutely correct. But if one's
            mission includes recovering all the student experiments on that
            flight, then 300 mW barely cuts the mustard unless the beacon is
            in a tall tree. Anyone wanna produce a beacon that does that
            kind of profile switching - or best leave it QRO full time?
            73 de Mike W5VSI

            On 8/2/14 16:12, Alan Adamson akadamson@... [GPSL] wrote:
            > And*who* said you need*HIGH POWER* for above ground objects... 10mW
            > works just fine :)... Now if we could get most of the APRS guys to
            > understand that - Maybe I could work the ISS sometime:)
            >
            > Alan
          • Leo Bodnar
            Guys, I am a bit confused. Have we started filing total travelled distance in ARHAB great circle longest distance table? PS-13 shows 7,619 miles / 14,110km as
            Message 6 of 10 , Aug 3, 2014
              Guys, I am a bit confused.

              Have we started filing total travelled distance in ARHAB great circle longest distance table?

              PS-13 shows 7,619 miles / 14,110km as distance between its terminal points however the record table lists 8,777 miles / 16,274km
              http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/PS-13.png

              I have not applied for at least a half dozen flights that would have held top places if calculated by travelled distance.

              We need to either change the sporting rules or stick to the existing ones.


              Thanks
              Leo
            • Steve Randall
              First let me say this is in absolutely no way a criticism of Keith or the ARHAB work he does - which is an outstanding effort and quite difficult negotiating
              Message 7 of 10 , Aug 3, 2014
                First let me say this is in absolutely no way a criticism of Keith or the ARHAB work he does - which is an outstanding effort and quite difficult negotiating in what can be a highly emotive area.

                I do have a couple of axes to grind here:
                a) There seems to be an implicit assumption that ARHAB is somehow part of GPSL or visa versa (else I’m not sure why we are discussing this here). 

                b) the current ARHAB process seems to be publish first and then sort it out if someone complains - particularly with reference to the ITLAC01 debacle.   I think at a minimum 1st place record claims (particularly altitude / distance / duration) should have a pier review before publishing. 

                Iv’e suggested rule changes before and the reply was - we can discuss that at the next GPSL.    Hummmm - see point a)

                My 10 pence worth: Great circle distance isn’t a very good metric for long flights - it certainly isn’t proportional to the technical achievement. Developed at a time where up-down flights were the norm I suspect.  Also not clear how to apply it to multi lap of the earth flights.

                Steve G8KHW


                On 3 Aug 2014, at 11:21, Leo Bodnar leo@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Guys, I am a bit confused.

                Have we started filing total travelled distance in ARHAB great circle longest distance table?

                PS-13 shows  7,619 miles / 14,110km as distance between its terminal points however the record table lists 8,777 miles / 16,274km
                http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/PS-13.png

                I have not applied for at least a half dozen flights that would have held top places if calculated by travelled distance.

                We need to either change the sporting rules or stick to the existing ones.


                Thanks
                Leo

                ------------------------------------
                Posted by: Leo Bodnar <leo@...>
                ------------------------------------


                ------------------------------------

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              • Barry Sloan
                B-66 just reappeared off the coast of Washington this morning. Looks like Leo may soon have 3 circumnavigate the globe. Barry VE6SBS
                Message 8 of 10 , Aug 3, 2014
                  B-66 just reappeared off the coast of Washington this morning. Looks like
                  Leo may soon have 3 circumnavigate the globe.

                  Barry VE6SBS
                • Mark Conner
                  The GPSL list began about 14 years ago as a list for discussing, not surprisingly, the annual Great Plains Super Launch. However, over time it has become a
                  Message 9 of 10 , Aug 3, 2014
                    The GPSL list began about 14 years ago as a list for discussing, not surprisingly, the annual Great Plains Super Launch.  However, over time it has become a general ARHAB discussion list as many who have never attended a GPSL have subscribed to it.  I've suggested in the past renaming this list and starting a new list focused more strictly on the GPSL events, but the consensus at the time was to leave things as they are.

                    As far as the ARHAB records go, Steve is right that many of the records were developed well before the era of routine floaters.  Most of them were formalized (if you can call it that) around 2000.  Practically no consideration was given to the concept of an around-the-world flight as something we'd have to keep records for.  As usual, the innovators have outrun the "administrative" aspects.

                    It is probably time to revisit ARHAB record-keeping.  When this was done before, we started with one person's volunteer efforts (Ralph W0RPK), made a few tweaks, and then published them.  At that time, the hobby was fairly US-centric and focused on amateur radio hobbyists launching latex balloons.  Since then, there are many more academic launches, use of non-ham bands (either by choice or by regulation), floaters, very-long-duration flights, etc.  We have no organizing body (in general, "organized" and "ARHAB" are antonyms) so it may be hard to come up with a rules committee who have the time and interest that's acceptable to all parties.  

                    If we revisit this, I would suggest doing so in the (Northern Hemisphere) winter, rather than when everyone is also trying to prepare and launch balloons.  This should help participation and keep from being distracted with real-time events (like watching three balloons circle the earth).  Certainly interested parties should make notes and draft a rule set that can be applied.

                    73 de Mark N9XTN


                    On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Steve Randall steve@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                    First let me say this is in absolutely no way a criticism of Keith or the ARHAB work he does - which is an outstanding effort and quite difficult negotiating in what can be a highly emotive area.

                    I do have a couple of axes to grind here:
                    a) There seems to be an implicit assumption that ARHAB is somehow part of GPSL or visa versa (else I’m not sure why we are discussing this here). 

                    b) the current ARHAB process seems to be publish first and then sort it out if someone complains - particularly with reference to the ITLAC01 debacle.   I think at a minimum 1st place record claims (particularly altitude / distance / duration) should have a pier review before publishing. 

                    Iv’e suggested rule changes before and the reply was - we can discuss that at the next GPSL.    Hummmm - see point a)

                    My 10 pence worth: Great circle distance isn’t a very good metric for long flights - it certainly isn’t proportional to the technical achievement. Developed at a time where up-down flights were the norm I suspect.  Also not clear how to apply it to multi lap of the earth flights.

                    Steve G8KHW


                    On 3 Aug 2014, at 11:21, Leo Bodnar leo@... [GPSL] <GPSL-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Guys, I am a bit confused.

                    Have we started filing total travelled distance in ARHAB great circle longest distance table?

                    PS-13 shows  7,619 miles / 14,110km as distance between its terminal points however the record table lists 8,777 miles / 16,274km
                    http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/PS-13.png

                    I have not applied for at least a half dozen flights that would have held top places if calculated by travelled distance.

                    We need to either change the sporting rules or stick to the existing ones.


                    Thanks
                    Leo

                    ------------------------------------
                    Posted by: Leo Bodnar <leo@...>
                    ------------------------------------


                    ------------------------------------

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                  • Mike Manes
                    Hi Leo et al, Records of the length of the actual path may not exist; e.g. M0XER-6 which vanished over Mongolia well over a week ago and which has just today
                    Message 10 of 10 , Aug 3, 2014
                      Hi Leo et al,

                      Records of the length of the actual path may not exist; e.g. M0XER-6
                      which "vanished" over Mongolia well over a week ago and which has
                      just today popped up offshore from WA state. The on-board log can fill
                      in the last 5 days prior to its reappearance, but who knows where it
                      traveled before that? So although the actual travel distance seems
                      to be the soundest criterion, a great circle or constant latitude path
                      length might be more reproducible. Then again, it's flight >duration<
                      that's really the key piece of the art here; yes, picking the right
                      altitude for best winds sure helps, but that choice favors the winter
                      in the N hemisphere rather than Leo's summer launches.

                      73 de Mike W5VSI

                      On 8/3/14 4:21, Leo Bodnar leo@... [GPSL] wrote:
                      > Guys, I am a bit confused.
                      >
                      > Have we started filing total travelled distance in ARHAB great circle longest distance table?
                      >
                      > PS-13 shows 7,619 miles / 14,110km as distance between its terminal points however the record table lists 8,777 miles / 16,274km
                      > http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/PS-13.png
                      >
                      > I have not applied for at least a half dozen flights that would have held top places if calculated by travelled distance.
                      >
                      > We need to either change the sporting rules or stick to the existing ones.
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      > Leo
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      > Posted by: Leo Bodnar <leo@...>
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
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