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RE: [govtrack] I need help!

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  • Pierre Demester
    any thoughts of using Coldfusion ? Pierre _____ From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Josh Tauberer Sent: Monday, June
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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      any thoughts of using Coldfusion ?
       
      Pierre
       


      From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Josh Tauberer
      Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 1:04 AM
      To: govtrack@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!

      > I've attended several
      > conferences on Legislative markup, but

      didn't find much of value, especially
      > as I'm interested primarily in
      Semantic annotation, and the state of the art
      > still seems to be
      syntactic (dates, addresses, etc.)

      If you learn anything interesting, I'd love to hear about it.

      > What is your preferred language for the
      scripts you write to manipulate
      > the bill text?

      I use Perl. If I were to start over again today I'd probably use Python.
      But, to the extent anyone wants to contribute, I would prefer Perl so
      they could reuse my existing routines, but I would gladly accept Python
      and maybe other languages.

      > Do you have an ontology for the XML you
      generate?

      I have some documentation of most things here:
      http://wiki. govtrack. us/index. php/Data_ Directory

      But it doesn't include anything about the structure of bill text XML
      that I generate, in part because it comes from HTML from THOMAS and I
      don't have a complete (or any) description of that.

      --
      - Josh Tauberer
      - GovTrack.us

      http://razor. occams.info

      "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation! Yields
      falsehood when preceded by its quotation!" Achilles to
      Tortoise (in "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)
    • Josh Tauberer
      ... I actually don t know the first thing about ColdFusion. -- - Josh Tauberer - GovTrack.us http://razor.occams.info Yields falsehood when preceded by its
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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        Pierre Demester wrote:
        > any thoughts of using Coldfusion ?

        I actually don't know the first thing about ColdFusion.

        --
        - Josh Tauberer
        - GovTrack.us

        http://razor.occams.info

        "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation! Yields
        falsehood when preceded by its quotation!" Achilles to
        Tortoise (in "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)
      • Pierre Demester
        Coldfusion is similar to ASP (Microsoft) and PHP (open source)... in that it is a scripting language. PHP has Object Orientation (OO) - whereas Coldfusion (CF)
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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          Coldfusion is similar to ASP (Microsoft) and PHP (open source)... in that it is a scripting language.
           
          PHP has Object Orientation (OO) - whereas Coldfusion (CF) (developed (Jeremy) Allaire and Ben Forta, then sold to Macromedia, bought by Adobe) resembles HTML.
           
          I, unfortunately have not had the opportunity (not currently cost effective to upgrade) to use CF 8 - which I think includes OO... but I might be incorrect.
           
          If you know HTML - you can learn CF fairly quickly.
          -- to fully utilize PHP... you need an understanding of OO.. which is a barrier that most people cannot cross.
          --- therefore, most PHP installs are not fully utilized. The "power is there"... the knowledge lacks.
           
          Another major difference is that PHP is free.
          -- CF starts @ $700... $2500 if you need the Enterprise edition. Most people don't.
           
          My take - you get what you pay for, Free is nice. There's a price for Quality.
           
          A third obstable is the installation base. Because PHP is free - there are literally thousands (upon thousands) of companies who "toss in" PHP for free.
          -- PHP is part of the standard linux install. All of my servers have PHP - I rarely use it.
           
          Because CF has a cost... the number of companies providing hosting services drops dramatically.
          - most companies who switch to CF... provide their own hosting services
           
          It's the same issues with databases
          -- MySQL (free / open source / hosted by 1000's upon 1000's)
          -- as compared to Microsoft SQL Server (very expensive / professional results).
           
          Many large entities use CF... Amazon.com, EBay.com, Senate.gov, Jaguar (the car manufacturer)... literally too many to list.
          - the number of PHP / MySql installations are uncountable.
           
          I think I've even come a Whitehouse.gov section that was CF based.
          -- some entities develop their entire site with CF - others only develop a portion.
           
          CF works with Sun Solaris, Windows IIS, and Linux.
           
          Pierre
           
           
           
           


          From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Josh Tauberer
          Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:33 AM
          To: govtrack@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!

          Pierre Demester wrote:

          > any thoughts of using Coldfusion ?

          I actually don't know the first thing about ColdFusion.

          --
          - Josh Tauberer
          - GovTrack.us

          http://razor. occams.info

          "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation! Yields
          falsehood when preceded by its quotation!" Achilles to
          Tortoise (in "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)

        • Derek Willis
          Please, please, not cold fusion. -1 (or as many as I can muster). ... -- -- Derek Willis dwillis@gmail.com http://www.thescoop.org/docs/
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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            Please, please, not cold fusion. -1 (or as many as I can muster).

            On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Pierre Demester <pierre@...> wrote:
            > Coldfusion is similar to ASP (Microsoft) and PHP (open source)... in that it
            > is a scripting language.
            >
            > PHP has Object Orientation (OO) - whereas Coldfusion (CF) (developed
            > (Jeremy) Allaire and Ben Forta, then sold to Macromedia, bought by Adobe)
            > resembles HTML.
            >
            > I, unfortunately have not had the opportunity (not currently cost effective
            > to upgrade) to use CF 8 - which I think includes OO... but I might be
            > incorrect.
            >
            > If you know HTML - you can learn CF fairly quickly.
            > -- to fully utilize PHP... you need an understanding of OO.. which is a
            > barrier that most people cannot cross.
            > --- therefore, most PHP installs are not fully utilized. The "power is
            > there"... the knowledge lacks.
            >
            > Another major difference is that PHP is free.
            > -- CF starts @ $700... $2500 if you need the Enterprise edition. Most people
            > don't.
            >
            > My take - you get what you pay for, Free is nice. There's a price for
            > Quality.
            >
            > A third obstable is the installation base. Because PHP is free - there are
            > literally thousands (upon thousands) of companies who "toss in" PHP for
            > free.
            > -- PHP is part of the standard linux install. All of my servers have PHP - I
            > rarely use it.
            >
            > Because CF has a cost... the number of companies providing hosting services
            > drops dramatically.
            > - most companies who switch to CF... provide their own hosting services
            >
            > It's the same issues with databases
            > -- MySQL (free / open source / hosted by 1000's upon 1000's)
            > -- as compared to Microsoft SQL Server (very expensive / professional
            > results).
            >
            > Many large entities use CF... Amazon.com, EBay.com, Senate.gov, Jaguar (the
            > car manufacturer)... literally too many to list.
            > - the number of PHP / MySql installations are uncountable.
            >
            > I think I've even come a Whitehouse.gov section that was CF based.
            > -- some entities develop their entire site with CF - others only develop a
            > portion.
            >
            > CF works with Sun Solaris, Windows IIS, and Linux.
            >
            > Pierre
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            > Of Josh Tauberer
            > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:33 AM
            > To: govtrack@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!
            >
            > Pierre Demester wrote:
            >> any thoughts of using Coldfusion ?
            >
            > I actually don't know the first thing about ColdFusion.
            >
            > --
            > - Josh Tauberer
            > - GovTrack.us
            >
            > http://razor.occams.info
            >
            > "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation! Yields
            > falsehood when preceded by its quotation!" Achilles to
            > Tortoise (in "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)
            >
            >



            --
            --
            Derek Willis
            dwillis@...
            http://www.thescoop.org/docs/
          • Pierre Demester
            there ya go. I knew there would be at least one. Pierre _____ From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek Willis Sent:
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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              there ya go. I knew there would be at least one.
               
              Pierre
               


              From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek Willis
              Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:19 AM
              To: govtrack@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!

              Please, please, not cold fusion. -1 (or as many as I can muster).

              On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Pierre Demester <pierre@.... us> wrote:

              > Coldfusion is similar to ASP (Microsoft) and PHP (open source)...
              in that it
              > is a scripting language.
              >
              > PHP has Object
              Orientation (OO) - whereas Coldfusion (CF) (developed
              > (Jeremy) Allaire
              and Ben Forta, then sold to Macromedia, bought by Adobe)
              > resembles
              HTML.
              >
              > I, unfortunately have not had the opportunity (not
              currently cost effective
              > to upgrade) to use CF 8 - which I think
              includes OO... but I might be
              > incorrect.
              >
              > If you know
              HTML - you can learn CF fairly quickly.
              > -- to fully utilize PHP... you
              need an understanding of OO.. which is a
              > barrier that most people cannot
              cross.
              > --- therefore, most PHP installs are not fully utilized. The
              "power is
              > there"... the knowledge lacks.
              >
              > Another major
              difference is that PHP is free.
              > -- CF starts @ $700... $2500 if you need
              the Enterprise edition. Most people
              > don't.
              >
              > My take - you
              get what you pay for, Free is nice. There's a price for
              >
              Quality.
              >
              > A third obstable is the installation base. Because PHP
              is free - there are
              > literally thousands (upon thousands) of companies
              who "toss in" PHP for
              > free.
              > -- PHP is part of the standard linux
              install. All of my servers have PHP - I
              > rarely use it.
              >
              >
              Because CF has a cost... the number of companies providing hosting services
              > drops dramatically.
              > - most companies who switch to
              CF... provide their own hosting services
              >
              > It's the same issues
              with databases
              > -- MySQL (free / open source / hosted by 1000's upon
              1000's)
              > -- as compared to Microsoft SQL Server (very expensive /
              professional
              > results).
              >
              > Many large entities use CF...
              Amazon.com, EBay.com, Senate.gov, Jaguar (the
              > car manufacturer) ...
              literally too many to list.
              > - the number of PHP / MySql installations
              are uncountable.
              >
              > I think I've even come a Whitehouse.gov section
              that was CF based.
              > -- some entities develop their entire site with CF -
              others only develop a
              > portion.
              >
              > CF works with Sun
              Solaris, Windows IIS, and Linux.
              >
              >
              Pierre
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ____________ _________ _________ __
              > From:
              href="mailto:govtrack%40yahoogroups.com">govtrack@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf
              > Of Josh Tauberer
              > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:33
              AM
              > To:
              href="mailto:govtrack%40yahoogroups.com">govtrack@yahoogroup s.com
              >
              Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!
              >
              > Pierre Demester
              wrote:
              >> any thoughts of using Coldfusion ?
              >
              > I actually
              don't know the first thing about ColdFusion.
              >
              > --
              > - Josh
              Tauberer
              > - GovTrack.us
              >
              >
              href="http://razor.occams.info">http://razor. occams.info
              >
              >
              "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation! Yields
              > falsehood when
              preceded by its quotation!" Achilles to
              > Tortoise (in "Godel, Escher,
              Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)
              >
              >

              --
              --
              Derek Willis
              dwillis@gmail. com
              http://www.thescoop .org/docs/

            • Mark Fredrickson
              I call bikeshed on this discussion[1]. Code is gold: if you can write something in Coldfusion, do so. If you can write it in something else, do so. Best of
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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                I call "bikeshed" on this discussion[1]. Code is gold: if you can write something in Coldfusion, do so. If you can write it in something else, do so.

                Best of luck,
                -M


                On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Derek Willis wrote:

                Please, please, not cold fusion. -1 (or as many as I can muster).

                On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Pierre Demester <pierre@.... us> wrote:
                > Coldfusion is similar to ASP (Microsoft) and PHP (open source)... in that it
                > is a scripting language.
                >
                > PHP has Object Orientation (OO) - whereas Coldfusion (CF) (developed
                > (Jeremy) Allaire and Ben Forta, then sold to Macromedia, bought by Adobe)
                > resembles HTML.
                >
                > I, unfortunately have not had the opportunity (not currently cost effective
                > to upgrade) to use CF 8 - which I think includes OO... but I might be
                > incorrect.
                >
                > If you know HTML - you can learn CF fairly quickly.
                > -- to fully utilize PHP... you need an understanding of OO.. which is a
                > barrier that most people cannot cross.
                > --- therefore, most PHP installs are not fully utilized. The "power is
                > there"... the knowledge lacks.
                >
                > Another major difference is that PHP is free.
                > -- CF starts @ $700... $2500 if you need the Enterprise edition. Most people
                > don't.
                >
                > My take - you get what you pay for, Free is nice. There's a price for
                > Quality.
                >
                > A third obstable is the installation base. Because PHP is free - there are
                > literally thousands (upon thousands) of companies who "toss in" PHP for
                > free.
                > -- PHP is part of the standard linux install. All of my servers have PHP - I
                > rarely use it.
                >
                > Because CF has a cost... the number of companies providing hosting services
                > drops dramatically.
                > - most companies who switch to CF... provide their own hosting services
                >
                > It's the same issues with databases
                > -- MySQL (free / open source / hosted by 1000's upon 1000's)
                > -- as compared to Microsoft SQL Server (very expensive / professional
                > results).
                >
                > Many large entities use CF... Amazon.com, EBay.com, Senate.gov, Jaguar (the
                > car manufacturer) ... literally too many to list.
                > - the number of PHP / MySql installations are uncountable.
                >
                > I think I've even come a Whitehouse.gov section that was CF based.
                > -- some entities develop their entire site with CF - others only develop a
                > portion.
                >
                > CF works with Sun Solaris, Windows IIS, and Linux.
                >
                > Pierre
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                > From: govtrack@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf
                > Of Josh Tauberer
                > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:33 AM
                > To: govtrack@yahoogroup s.com
                > Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!
                >
                > Pierre Demester wrote:
                >> any thoughts of using Coldfusion ?
                >
                > I actually don't know the first thing about ColdFusion.
                >
                > --
                > - Josh Tauberer
                > - GovTrack.us
                >
                > http://razor. occams.info
                >
                > "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation! Yields
                > falsehood when preceded by its quotation!" Achilles to
                > Tortoise (in "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)
                >
                > 

                -- 
                --
                Derek Willis
                dwillis@gmail. com
                http://www.thescoop .org/docs/


              • Neil Rest
                Code has to be maintained. When a development project goes live, less than half its full life-cycle cost has been spent; the rest is modification. Personally,
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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                  Code has to be maintained.
                  When a development project goes live, less than half its full
                  life-cycle cost has been spent; the rest is modification.
                  Personally, I'm thumbs up on PHP (objects available, not mandatory,
                  btw), and thumbs down on ColdFusion (proprietary add-on to a graphics
                  package), but regardless, one of the first rules of good code is Make
                  it readable, Make it modifiable.
                  It might run like gold and still be bad code.


                  At 09:27 AM 7/2/2008, Mark Fredrickson <mark.m.fredrickson@...> wrote:
                  >I call "bikeshed" on this discussion[1]. Code is gold: if you can
                  >write something in Coldfusion, do so. If you can write it in
                  >something else, do so.
                  >
                  >Best of luck,
                  >-M
                  >
                  >[1] <http://www.bikeshed.com/>http://www.bikeshed.com/ and
                  ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_the_bikeshed>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_the_bikeshed
                  >
                  >On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Derek Willis wrote:
                  >
                  >>Please, please, not cold fusion. -1 (or as many as I can muster).
                  >>
                  >>On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Pierre Demester
                  >><<mailto:pierre%40in.ternet.us>pierre@...! .us> wrote:
                  >> > Coldfusion is similar to ASP (Microsoft) and PHP (open
                  >> source)... in that it
                  >> > is a scripting language.
                  >> >
                  >> > PHP has Object Orientation (OO) - whereas Coldfusion (CF) (developed
                  >> > (Jeremy) Allaire and Ben Forta, then sold to Macromedia, bought by Adobe)
                  >> > resembles HTML.


                  Neil
                  --
                  NeilRest@...

                  Plato had defined the human being as an animal, biped and
                  featherless, and was applauded. Diogenes plucked a fowl and brought
                  it into the lecture-room with the words, 'Here is Plato's human
                  being.' In consequence of which there was added to the definition,
                  'having broad nails'.
                • Pierre Demester
                  i agree Pierre _____ From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Fredrickson Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:27 AM To:
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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                    i agree
                     
                    Pierre
                     


                    From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Fredrickson
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:27 AM
                    To: govtrack@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!

                    I call "bikeshed" on this discussion[1] . Code is gold: if you can write something in Coldfusion, do so. If you can write it in something else, do so.


                    Best of luck,
                    -M


                    On Jul 2, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Derek Willis wrote:

                    Please, please, not cold fusion. -1 (or as many as I can muster).

                    On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Pierre Demester <pierre@.... us> wrote:
                    > Coldfusion is similar to ASP (Microsoft) and PHP (open source)... in that it
                    > is a scripting language.
                    >
                    > PHP has Object Orientation (OO) - whereas Coldfusion (CF) (developed
                    > (Jeremy) Allaire and Ben Forta, then sold to Macromedia, bought by Adobe)
                    > resembles HTML.
                    >
                    > I, unfortunately have not had the opportunity (not currently cost effective
                    > to upgrade) to use CF 8 - which I think includes OO... but I might be
                    > incorrect.
                    >
                    > If you know HTML - you can learn CF fairly quickly.
                    > -- to fully utilize PHP... you need an understanding of OO.. which is a
                    > barrier that most people cannot cross.
                    > --- therefore, most PHP installs are not fully utilized. The "power is
                    > there"... the knowledge lacks.
                    >
                    > Another major difference is that PHP is free.
                    > -- CF starts @ $700... $2500 if you need the Enterprise edition. Most people
                    > don't.
                    >
                    > My take - you get what you pay for, Free is nice. There's a price for
                    > Quality.
                    >
                    > A third obstable is the installation base. Because PHP is free - there are
                    > literally thousands (upon thousands) of companies who "toss in" PHP for
                    > free.
                    > -- PHP is part of the standard linux install. All of my servers have PHP - I
                    > rarely use it.
                    >
                    > Because CF has a cost... the number of companies providing hosting services
                    > drops dramatically.
                    > - most companies who switch to CF... provide their own hosting services
                    >
                    > It's the same issues with databases
                    > -- MySQL (free / open source / hosted by 1000's upon 1000's)
                    > -- as compared to Microsoft SQL Server (very expensive / professional
                    > results).
                    >
                    > Many large entities use CF... Amazon.com, EBay.com, Senate.gov, Jaguar (the
                    > car manufacturer) ... literally too many to list.
                    > - the number of PHP / MySql installations are uncountable.
                    >
                    > I think I've even come a Whitehouse.gov section that was CF based.
                    > -- some entities develop their entire site with CF - others only develop a
                    > portion.
                    >
                    > CF works with Sun Solaris, Windows IIS, and Linux.
                    >
                    > Pierre
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ____________ _________ _________ __
                    > From: govtrack@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf
                    > Of Josh Tauberer
                    > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:33 AM
                    > To: govtrack@yahoogroup s.com
                    > Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!
                    >
                    > Pierre Demester wrote:
                    >> any thoughts of using Coldfusion ?
                    >
                    > I actually don't know the first thing about ColdFusion.
                    >
                    > --
                    > - Josh Tauberer
                    > - GovTrack.us
                    >
                    > http://razor. occams.info
                    >
                    > "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation! Yields
                    > falsehood when preceded by its quotation!" Achilles to
                    > Tortoise (in "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)
                    >
                    > 

                    -- 
                    --
                    Derek Willis
                    dwillis@gmail. com
                    http://www.thescoop .org/docs/


                  • Dale Moore
                    Is c#, .NET or MONO an option?
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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                      Is c#, .NET or MONO an option?

                    • Jeremy Dunck
                      ... I use Perl. If I were to start over again today I d probably use Python. But, to the extent anyone wants to contribute, I would prefer Perl so they could
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Dale Moore <DaleEMoore@...> wrote:
                        > Is c#, .NET or MONO an option?
                        >

                        In case you didn't see Josh's prior response, quoting:

                        > What is your preferred language for the scripts you write to manipulate
                        > the bill text?

                        I use Perl. If I were to start over again today I'd probably use Python.
                        But, to the extent anyone wants to contribute, I would prefer Perl so
                        they could reuse my existing routines, but I would gladly accept Python
                        and maybe other languages.
                      • Pierre Demester
                        I m a little confused - Coldfusion (proprietary add-on to a graphic package) ??? Are you saying Coldfusion is a graphic application ? ... As for PHP - it s not
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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                          I'm a little confused
                          - Coldfusion (proprietary add-on to a graphic package) ???
                           
                          Are you saying Coldfusion is a graphic application ?
                           
                          -----------------------------------
                           
                          As for PHP - it's not a bad language - like any language... it has it's benefits and drawbacks.
                           
                          In my own opinion - proprietary is not always a bad choice. Most of the application we develop and have developed - have been for proprietary purposes.
                           
                          The scale and use of our applications are always a large consideration when reviewing the range of choices (development languages) available.
                           
                          Our actual preferred language is C++... though not very useful as web language - it suffices well for backend development.
                           
                          We primarily use it for real-time interaction.
                           
                          Pierre
                           


                          From: govtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:govtrack@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Rest
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:03 AM
                          To: govtrack@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [govtrack] I need help!

                          Code has to be maintained.
                          When a development project goes live, less than half its full
                          life-cycle cost has been spent; the rest is modification.
                          Personally, I'm thumbs up on PHP (objects available, not mandatory,
                          btw), and thumbs down on ColdFusion (proprietary add-on to a graphics
                          package), but regardless, one of the first rules of good code is Make
                          it readable, Make it modifiable.
                          It might run like gold and still be bad code.

                          At 09:27 AM 7/2/2008, Mark Fredrickson <mark.m.fredrickson@ gmail.com> wrote:

                          >I call "bikeshed" on this discussion[1] . Code is gold: if you
                          can
                          >write something in Coldfusion, do so. If you can write it in
                          >something else, do so.
                          >
                          >Best of
                          luck,
                          >-M
                          >
                          >[1] <
                          href="http://www.bikeshed.com/">http://www.bikeshed .com/>http://www.bikeshed .com/ and
                          ><
                          href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_the_bikeshed">http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Color_of_ the_bikeshed>http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Color_of_ the_bikeshed
                          >
                          >On
                          Jul 2, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Derek Willis wrote:
                          >
                          >>Please, please,
                          not cold fusion. -1 (or as many as I can muster).
                          >>
                          >>On Wed,
                          Jul 2, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Pierre Demester
                          >><<mailto:pierre% 40in.ternet. us>
                          href="mailto:pierre%40in.ternet">pierre@...! .us> wrote:
                          >> > Coldfusion is similar to ASP (Microsoft) and PHP (open
                          >> source)... in that it
                          >> > is a scripting
                          language.
                          >> >
                          >> > PHP has Object Orientation (OO) -
                          whereas Coldfusion (CF) (developed
                          >> > (Jeremy) Allaire and Ben
                          Forta, then sold to Macromedia, bought by Adobe)
                          >> > resembles
                          HTML.

                          Neil
                          --
                          NeilRest@rcn. com

                          Plato had defined the human being as an animal, biped and
                          featherless, and was applauded. Diogenes plucked a fowl and brought
                          it into the lecture-room with the words, 'Here is Plato's human
                          being.' In consequence of which there was added to the definition,
                          'having broad nails'.

                        • Josh Tauberer
                          ... Okay, okay, let s not have this list turn into a discussion about programming languages. The priority should be finding a *civic project* to work on, not
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 2, 2008
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                            Pierre Demester wrote:
                            > I'm a little confused
                            > - Coldfusion (proprietary add-on to a graphic package) ???

                            Okay, okay, let's not have this list turn into a discussion about
                            programming languages.

                            The priority should be finding a *civic project* to work on, not what
                            language to use for the project. Project first, language second.

                            Josh
                          • Gabe Hamilton
                            Hi Josh, I have some availability to work on GovTrack over the next few months. My interest is in state legislation, however I m happy to start with some of
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 3, 2008
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                              Hi Josh,
                                  I have some availability to work on GovTrack over the next few months.  My interest is in state legislation, however I'm happy to start with some of the higher priority items.

                              My question is, would it make sense to start a govtrack-development group?  Obviously we don't want to debate programming languages, but there  are probably some architectural questions that will inspire just as much traffic.

                              Some examples of things that could be discussed in a new group:
                                Since GovTrack is in .NET and Perl, is there a way for PHP/Python/Ada programmers to contribute?
                                Should GovTrack use a DB as well as XML?
                                Anyone know how X works?
                                I get error Y when running piece Z of govtrack, anyone know why?

                              I think Yahoo Groups will do polls, do you want to create a poll for whether a development group is needed?

                              -Gabe


                              Gabe Hamilton



                              On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Josh Tauberer <tauberer@...> wrote:

                              Hi guys.

                              With the recent discussion about writing bills on a wiki, I know there
                              are people here with good technical skills! So I'm writing my periodical
                              pitch to get some help with GovTrack. If you want to earn some money
                              helping GovTrack, that might also be possible to arrange.

                              I've been expanding my list of project ideas here:
                              http://wiki.govtrack.us/index.php/Projects

                              Here are a few:
                              - Display on a bill page a list of sections of the U.S. Code that would
                              be modified, by looking for references in the bill text.
                              - Researching what the different types of votes are (like 'motion to
                              recommit with instructions') and adding explanatory text to the site.
                              - Tagging bills (crowd-sourcing)
                              - Make the website fully compliant with accessibility standards

                              Need I say that GovTrack is quite popular and your contributions will
                              benefit thousands of people each day? :)

                              --
                              - Josh Tauberer
                              - GovTrack.us

                              http://razor.occams.info

                              "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation! Yields
                              falsehood when preceded by its quotation!" Achilles to
                              Tortoise (in "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)


                            • Josh Tauberer
                              ... Hey, Gabe. Glad to hear you could help out. Don t flake out on me now. :) ... I think when the time comes we ll deal with it then. (Any lurkers that have
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 3, 2008
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                                Gabe Hamilton wrote:
                                > Hi Josh,
                                > I have some availability to work on GovTrack over the next few
                                > months. My interest is in state legislation, however I'm happy to start
                                > with some of the higher priority items.

                                Hey, Gabe.

                                Glad to hear you could help out. Don't flake out on me now. :)

                                > My question is, would it make sense to start a govtrack-development
                                > group? Obviously we don't want to debate programming languages, but
                                > there are probably some architectural questions that will inspire just
                                > as much traffic.

                                I think when the time comes we'll deal with it then.

                                (Any lurkers that have an opinion on what they'd like to receive on this
                                list are welcome to email me off list with opinions.)

                                Josh
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