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Re: [gothic-l] skohls (Was: Re: Hails)

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  • Valulfr_Vaerulsson@runewolf.org
    Hails Ualarauans, Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association from Grimm. After looking into this further I found this from the
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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      Hails Ualarauans,

      Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association from Grimm.
      After looking into this further I found this from the Cleasby-Vigfusson O.Ice.
      dictionary -

      SKYRSI, n. [akin to Ulf. skohsl; Germ. scheusal] :-- a portent, phantasm, as
      also mischance arising from witchery; þeir þóttusk náliga brenna ok óttuðusk
      þann atburð sem skussi (= skyrsi), as a bad omen,.....

      Walawulfs



      Quoting ualarauans <ualarauans@...>:

      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
      > <Valulfr_Vaerulsson@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is this a
      > > word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
      > > derive?
      >
      > I think he just took the word already existent and changed its
      > meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words
      > afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
      > *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to shiver"
      > (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology.
      > Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump".
      >
      > Looks like Go. skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering
      > from a certain mental desease, very reminiscent of OIrish geilt and
      > related mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder
      > Wulfila picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils
      > (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans).
      >
      > > In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
      > > 'skógi', or 'forest'.
      >
      > Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz >
      > *skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished from
      > the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =
      > heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker", i.e. "one who dwells in the
      > wasteland".
      >
      > > Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
      > > and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure.
      >
      > Forest was thought of as a dangerous place to go, no doubt.
      >
      > Ualarauans
      >
      >




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    • llama_nom
      Hails, Walawulf! I can t see what direct etymological connection there could be between ON skyrsi and Go. skohsl . If there is any kinship, perhaps it s
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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        Hails, Walawulf!

        I can't see what direct etymological connection there could be between
        ON 'skyrsi' and Go. 'skohsl'. If there is any kinship, perhaps it's
        just shared sound symbolism [
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_symbolism ]. Grimm also mentions ON
        'skass' = 'skars' "witch, troll". And compare OE 'sceocca', 'scucca'
        "devil, monster" (Modern English 'shuck'), and derivatives of OE
        'scín-' with connotations of magic, illusion, phantoms. But maybe such
        names for frightning beings were liable to unusual changes if people
        had a superstitious fear of using what they felt was the thing's true
        name in case that attracted its attention; euphemistic names were
        certainly used of dangerous animals such as wolves. Diefenbach
        mentions Swedish wood spirits called 'skogsnerte' and 'skogsnufva',
        and various Slavic names for spirits with the element -kus-, -kuz-,
        -kud-, as well as the Slavic verb 'skakati' "to jump".

        http://books.google.com/books?id=1LAJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA954&lpg=PA954
        http://books.google.com/books?id=ZqAFAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA260

        Lama Nom


        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Valulfr_Vaerulsson@... wrote:
        >
        > Hails Ualarauans,
        >
        > Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association
        from Grimm.
        > After looking into this further I found this from the
        Cleasby-Vigfusson O.Ice.
        > dictionary -
        >
        > SKYRSI, n. [akin to Ulf. skohsl; Germ. scheusal] :-- a portent,
        phantasm, as
        > also mischance arising from witchery; þeir þóttusk náliga brenna ok
        óttuðusk
        > þann atburð sem skussi (= skyrsi), as a bad omen,.....
        >
        > Walawulfs
        >
        >
        >
        > Quoting ualarauans <ualarauans@...>:
        >
        > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
        > > <Valulfr_Vaerulsson@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is
        this a
        > > > word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
        > > > derive?
        > >
        > > I think he just took the word already existent and changed its
        > > meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words
        > > afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
        > > *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to shiver"
        > > (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology.
        > > Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump".
        > >
        > > Looks like Go. skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering
        > > from a certain mental desease, very reminiscent of OIrish geilt and
        > > related mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder
        > > Wulfila picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils
        > > (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans).
        > >
        > > > In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
        > > > 'skógi', or 'forest'.
        > >
        > > Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz >
        > > *skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished
        from
        > > the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =
        > > heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker", i.e. "one who dwells in the
        > > wasteland".
        > >
        > > > Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
        > > > and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure.
        > >
        > > Forest was thought of as a dangerous place to go, no doubt.
        > >
        > > Ualarauans
      • ualarauans
        ... Interestingly, Slav. kusiti to bite comes from Go. kausjan to test .
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
          >
          > [...]
          > and various Slavic names for spirits with the element -kus-, -kuz-,
          > -kud-, as well as the Slavic verb 'skakati' "to jump".

          Interestingly, Slav. kusiti "to bite" comes from Go. kausjan "to test".
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