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skohls (Was: Re: Hails)

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  • ualarauans
    ... I think he just took the word already existent and changed its meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words afaik. It is generally
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 2, 2008
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      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
      <Valulfr_Vaerulsson@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is this a
      > word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
      > derive?

      I think he just took the word already existent and changed its
      meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words
      afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
      *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to shiver"
      (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology.
      Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump".

      Looks like Go. skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering
      from a certain mental desease, very reminiscent of OIrish geilt and
      related mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder
      Wulfila picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils
      (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans).

      > In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
      > 'skógi', or 'forest'.

      Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz >
      *skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished from
      the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =
      heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker", i.e. "one who dwells in the
      wasteland".

      > Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
      > and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure.

      Forest was thought of as a dangerous place to go, no doubt.

      Ualarauans
    • Valulfr_Vaerulsson@runewolf.org
      Hails Ualarauans, Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association from Grimm. After looking into this further I found this from the
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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        Hails Ualarauans,

        Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association from Grimm.
        After looking into this further I found this from the Cleasby-Vigfusson O.Ice.
        dictionary -

        SKYRSI, n. [akin to Ulf. skohsl; Germ. scheusal] :-- a portent, phantasm, as
        also mischance arising from witchery; þeir þóttusk náliga brenna ok óttuðusk
        þann atburð sem skussi (= skyrsi), as a bad omen,.....

        Walawulfs



        Quoting ualarauans <ualarauans@...>:

        > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
        > <Valulfr_Vaerulsson@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is this a
        > > word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
        > > derive?
        >
        > I think he just took the word already existent and changed its
        > meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words
        > afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
        > *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to shiver"
        > (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology.
        > Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump".
        >
        > Looks like Go. skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering
        > from a certain mental desease, very reminiscent of OIrish geilt and
        > related mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder
        > Wulfila picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils
        > (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans).
        >
        > > In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
        > > 'skógi', or 'forest'.
        >
        > Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz >
        > *skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished from
        > the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =
        > heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker", i.e. "one who dwells in the
        > wasteland".
        >
        > > Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
        > > and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure.
        >
        > Forest was thought of as a dangerous place to go, no doubt.
        >
        > Ualarauans
        >
        >




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      • llama_nom
        Hails, Walawulf! I can t see what direct etymological connection there could be between ON skyrsi and Go. skohsl . If there is any kinship, perhaps it s
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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          Hails, Walawulf!

          I can't see what direct etymological connection there could be between
          ON 'skyrsi' and Go. 'skohsl'. If there is any kinship, perhaps it's
          just shared sound symbolism [
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_symbolism ]. Grimm also mentions ON
          'skass' = 'skars' "witch, troll". And compare OE 'sceocca', 'scucca'
          "devil, monster" (Modern English 'shuck'), and derivatives of OE
          'scín-' with connotations of magic, illusion, phantoms. But maybe such
          names for frightning beings were liable to unusual changes if people
          had a superstitious fear of using what they felt was the thing's true
          name in case that attracted its attention; euphemistic names were
          certainly used of dangerous animals such as wolves. Diefenbach
          mentions Swedish wood spirits called 'skogsnerte' and 'skogsnufva',
          and various Slavic names for spirits with the element -kus-, -kuz-,
          -kud-, as well as the Slavic verb 'skakati' "to jump".

          http://books.google.com/books?id=1LAJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA954&lpg=PA954
          http://books.google.com/books?id=ZqAFAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA260

          Lama Nom


          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Valulfr_Vaerulsson@... wrote:
          >
          > Hails Ualarauans,
          >
          > Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association
          from Grimm.
          > After looking into this further I found this from the
          Cleasby-Vigfusson O.Ice.
          > dictionary -
          >
          > SKYRSI, n. [akin to Ulf. skohsl; Germ. scheusal] :-- a portent,
          phantasm, as
          > also mischance arising from witchery; þeir þóttusk náliga brenna ok
          óttuðusk
          > þann atburð sem skussi (= skyrsi), as a bad omen,.....
          >
          > Walawulfs
          >
          >
          >
          > Quoting ualarauans <ualarauans@...>:
          >
          > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
          > > <Valulfr_Vaerulsson@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is
          this a
          > > > word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
          > > > derive?
          > >
          > > I think he just took the word already existent and changed its
          > > meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words
          > > afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
          > > *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to shiver"
          > > (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology.
          > > Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump".
          > >
          > > Looks like Go. skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering
          > > from a certain mental desease, very reminiscent of OIrish geilt and
          > > related mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder
          > > Wulfila picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils
          > > (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans).
          > >
          > > > In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
          > > > 'skógi', or 'forest'.
          > >
          > > Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz >
          > > *skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished
          from
          > > the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =
          > > heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker", i.e. "one who dwells in the
          > > wasteland".
          > >
          > > > Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
          > > > and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure.
          > >
          > > Forest was thought of as a dangerous place to go, no doubt.
          > >
          > > Ualarauans
        • ualarauans
          ... Interestingly, Slav. kusiti to bite comes from Go. kausjan to test .
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
            >
            > [...]
            > and various Slavic names for spirits with the element -kus-, -kuz-,
            > -kud-, as well as the Slavic verb 'skakati' "to jump".

            Interestingly, Slav. kusiti "to bite" comes from Go. kausjan "to test".
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