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Hails

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  • Valulfr Vaerulsson
    Hails alls, Though I am new here at this time, it wasn t always so. This is Valulfr, and I have returned to enjoy to dialog here once again. I have a
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 2, 2008
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      Hails alls,

      Though I am 'new' here at this time, it wasn't always so. This is
      Valulfr, and I have returned to enjoy to dialog here once again.

      I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is this a
      word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
      derive? In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
      'skógi', or 'forest'. Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
      and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure. Any
      help here would be greatly appreciated.

      In ufarassau wisan,
      Walawulfs
    • ualarauans
      ... I think he just took the word already existent and changed its meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words afaik. It is generally
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 2, 2008
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        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
        <Valulfr_Vaerulsson@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is this a
        > word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
        > derive?

        I think he just took the word already existent and changed its
        meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words
        afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
        *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to shiver"
        (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology.
        Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump".

        Looks like Go. skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering
        from a certain mental desease, very reminiscent of OIrish geilt and
        related mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder
        Wulfila picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils
        (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans).

        > In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
        > 'skógi', or 'forest'.

        Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz >
        *skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished from
        the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =
        heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker", i.e. "one who dwells in the
        wasteland".

        > Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
        > and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure.

        Forest was thought of as a dangerous place to go, no doubt.

        Ualarauans
      • Valulfr_Vaerulsson@runewolf.org
        Hails Ualarauans, Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association from Grimm. After looking into this further I found this from the
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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          Hails Ualarauans,

          Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association from Grimm.
          After looking into this further I found this from the Cleasby-Vigfusson O.Ice.
          dictionary -

          SKYRSI, n. [akin to Ulf. skohsl; Germ. scheusal] :-- a portent, phantasm, as
          also mischance arising from witchery; þeir þóttusk náliga brenna ok óttuðusk
          þann atburð sem skussi (= skyrsi), as a bad omen,.....

          Walawulfs



          Quoting ualarauans <ualarauans@...>:

          > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
          > <Valulfr_Vaerulsson@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is this a
          > > word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
          > > derive?
          >
          > I think he just took the word already existent and changed its
          > meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words
          > afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
          > *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to shiver"
          > (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology.
          > Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump".
          >
          > Looks like Go. skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering
          > from a certain mental desease, very reminiscent of OIrish geilt and
          > related mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder
          > Wulfila picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils
          > (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans).
          >
          > > In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
          > > 'skógi', or 'forest'.
          >
          > Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz >
          > *skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished from
          > the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =
          > heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker", i.e. "one who dwells in the
          > wasteland".
          >
          > > Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
          > > and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure.
          >
          > Forest was thought of as a dangerous place to go, no doubt.
          >
          > Ualarauans
          >
          >




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        • llama_nom
          Hails, Walawulf! I can t see what direct etymological connection there could be between ON skyrsi and Go. skohsl . If there is any kinship, perhaps it s
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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            Hails, Walawulf!

            I can't see what direct etymological connection there could be between
            ON 'skyrsi' and Go. 'skohsl'. If there is any kinship, perhaps it's
            just shared sound symbolism [
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_symbolism ]. Grimm also mentions ON
            'skass' = 'skars' "witch, troll". And compare OE 'sceocca', 'scucca'
            "devil, monster" (Modern English 'shuck'), and derivatives of OE
            'scín-' with connotations of magic, illusion, phantoms. But maybe such
            names for frightning beings were liable to unusual changes if people
            had a superstitious fear of using what they felt was the thing's true
            name in case that attracted its attention; euphemistic names were
            certainly used of dangerous animals such as wolves. Diefenbach
            mentions Swedish wood spirits called 'skogsnerte' and 'skogsnufva',
            and various Slavic names for spirits with the element -kus-, -kuz-,
            -kud-, as well as the Slavic verb 'skakati' "to jump".

            http://books.google.com/books?id=1LAJAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA954&lpg=PA954
            http://books.google.com/books?id=ZqAFAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA260

            Lama Nom


            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Valulfr_Vaerulsson@... wrote:
            >
            > Hails Ualarauans,
            >
            > Thanks for clearing that up, I think I picked up the association
            from Grimm.
            > After looking into this further I found this from the
            Cleasby-Vigfusson O.Ice.
            > dictionary -
            >
            > SKYRSI, n. [akin to Ulf. skohsl; Germ. scheusal] :-- a portent,
            phantasm, as
            > also mischance arising from witchery; þeir þóttusk náliga brenna ok
            óttuðusk
            > þann atburð sem skussi (= skyrsi), as a bad omen,.....
            >
            > Walawulfs
            >
            >
            >
            > Quoting ualarauans <ualarauans@...>:
            >
            > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
            > > <Valulfr_Vaerulsson@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I have a question about the etymology of the word 'skohsl', is
            this a
            > > > word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon', and if not, where does it
            > > > derive?
            > >
            > > I think he just took the word already existent and changed its
            > > meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words
            > > afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
            > > *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to shiver"
            > > (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology.
            > > Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump".
            > >
            > > Looks like Go. skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering
            > > from a certain mental desease, very reminiscent of OIrish geilt and
            > > related mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder
            > > Wulfila picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils
            > > (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans).
            > >
            > > > In the semantic field, this word came down into Old Norse as
            > > > 'skógi', or 'forest'.
            > >
            > > Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz >
            > > *skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished
            from
            > > the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =
            > > heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker", i.e. "one who dwells in the
            > > wasteland".
            > >
            > > > Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits
            > > > and so forth, living in the forest were to be avoided, not sure.
            > >
            > > Forest was thought of as a dangerous place to go, no doubt.
            > >
            > > Ualarauans
          • ualarauans
            ... Interestingly, Slav. kusiti to bite comes from Go. kausjan to test .
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 3, 2008
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              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
              >
              > [...]
              > and various Slavic names for spirits with the element -kus-, -kuz-,
              > -kud-, as well as the Slavic verb 'skakati' "to jump".

              Interestingly, Slav. kusiti "to bite" comes from Go. kausjan "to test".
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