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Re: Drus Griutunge

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  • llama_nom
    ... You re right, as usual :-) I ve replaced inu with alja . ... Well, we have got awiliudon , supposing the first element of that is from the same root?
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 4, 2007
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      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
      > >
      > > [...]
      > > Thanks for all your eagle-eyed observations!
      >
      > Well, since I am obviously commended (arins augo! – I'm flattered
      > and blushing) I feel ready to drop in some more... eh... remarks.
      >
      > /allaim inu hrabna/ "for all but the raven" – probably I fail to see
      > something which is evident allaim inuh (Walha)hrabna, but if it is
      > the preposition inu(h) "without" it should govern accusative. Maybe,
      > allaim alja hrabna with alja "except"? Or niba(i)?


      You're right, as usual :-) I've replaced 'inu' with 'alja'.



      > Awimundus (PN). Thinking of niuja-satiþs (but niu-klahs) I wonder
      > could the name be occasionally spelt *Aujamundus or even *Aumundus?


      Well, we have got 'awiliudon', supposing the first element of that is
      from the same root?


      > /Jah miþ unhulþom arþu nemun/ "And with fiends they dwelt" – iirc
      > Jordanes' point was that the demons were actually male (incubi). Miþ
      > unhulþam (dat. pl. masc.)?


      Changed to 'unhulþam' as you suggest to emphasise that they're male.


      > /fulk unkausiþ jah faurhtjando/ "a force untried and fearful". I'd
      > just like to ask whether fulk unfraisan could be equally possible (I
      > translated inexpertus exercitus as unfraisans harjis in the Attilae
      > alloquium. Maybe I should change it to unkausiþs)?


      I think either would fit the meaning (cf. 2Cor 13:5), but I've changed
      to 'unfraisan' for the sake of the extra gratuitous alliteration.


      > /Hilms gulþahrudans im ana haubiþ ni sat/ "No gilt helm sat upon
      > their heads" – ana haubida (dat. sg.)? Or maybe ana haubidam (pl.)?


      Changed to 'Hilms gulþahrudans / ni sat ana haubida im'. I think
      'haubidam' would be possible, but for singuar, see 'ni indrobnai izwar
      hairto' = hUMWN hE KARDIA (J 14:1); 'iþ hairto ize' = hE de KARDIA
      AUTWN (Mk 7:6) = KJB 'their heart' = Icelandic 'hjarta þeirra'.
      Google turns up lots of examples of Icelandic 'í/á/yfir höfði þeirra',
      and in st. 60 of the Old Norse Sólarljóð, we find:

      Marga menn
      sá ek moldar gengna,
      þá er eigi máttu þjónustu ná;
      heiðnar stjörnur
      stóðu yfir höfði þeim
      fáðar feiknstöfum.

      "I saw many dead men who could not take service [with God]. Heathen
      stars stood over their head[s], painted with evil letters/runes."


      > /Jus þan ... airlos allai gadauþnand/ "Then all ye doughty ones ...
      > shall die" – gadauþniþ (2nd pers. pl.)?


      You're right.


      > /Ga-nu-riqizjadau himins strelom/ "So let the heavens be blotted
      > with the bolts"
      > and
      > /Inreiradau grundus ... hrussam/ "Let the ground quiver ... with
      > [our] steeds" – the attested verbs riqizjan and reiran are
      > intransitive, and I don't know if they could be used with what seems
      > to be dativus auctoris like transitives in mediopassive. Do we have
      > any examples?
      >
      > /Ik þuk nu faigjana wait jah funs haljos/ "I know now that thou art
      > dead already and eager for thy grave" – funsana haljos? Or it's
      > Audika who is eager for Ibra's grave (funs [im] haljos [þeinaizos])?


      I was trying to get across the idea that Audika (indulging in a bit of
      traditional flyting before the battle) is telling Ibra that he (Ibra)
      is fey, i.e. locked into a feverish or trance-like state of mind where
      his every choice seems to bring death closer, as if he's
      subconsciously working towards his own destruction, and so there's no
      helping him, and it shows in the fact that his mind's on ancient
      glories and tales rather than on the practical realities of the
      chahged political situation.

      http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/oi_cleasbyvigfusson/b0149.png


      > /Sijaidu afhugidai?/ "Are ye bewitched?" – if this aims at the two
      > above, then it should be dual, probably sijaitsu?


      The plural was deliberate. The nameless grey-haired warrior is on the
      side of the Huns and Gothic rebels against Airmanareiks. He's
      addressing the forces loyal to Airmanareiks, currently holed up in
      their fortified settlement (Ibra and his men). I think he's probably
      a certain god (harjonds, from the same root as Herjan) who famously
      turns up at such moments to ensure the battle goes according to his
      inscrutable plans. He goads the defenders into leaving their position
      of strength and coming out to fight in the open against superior
      numbers; he also drops a hint to the attackers clues about how to get
      them out if they refuse (cf. the end of Völsunga saga), although he
      knows they won't. The reference to fire and enchantment was meant to
      be an allusion to the story in Guta saga of the founding of Gotland
      and how the spell that caused the island to sink every day was lifted
      with fire; so he's invoking a memory of the very beginning of Gothic
      history here at what must seem to the participants as something like
      the end.


      > And I'd like to add that I re-read the poem ever again with a non-
      > lessening pleasure. Waila gawaurhtes waurstw þata mikilo, Lama!


      Þagk þus fairhaita, Walhahrabn, jah allaim fairni-liuþarjam þaim
      þizeei *hugisahtins (ideas) ik skandalaus hlaf!
    • llama_nom
      ... This isn t quite the same, but compare the use of dative both in the passive was ... gawasiþs taglam ulbandaus and the active intransitive hve
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 4, 2007
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        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@...> wrote:
        >
        > /Ga-nu-riqizjadau himins strelom/ "So let the heavens be blotted
        > with the bolts"
        > and
        > /Inreiradau grundus ... hrussam/ "Let the ground quiver ... with
        > [our] steeds" – the attested verbs riqizjan and reiran are
        > intransitive, and I don't know if they could be used with what seems
        > to be dativus auctoris like transitives in mediopassive. Do we have
        > any examples?

        This isn't quite the same, but compare the use of dative both in the
        passive 'was ... gawasiþs taglam ulbandaus' and the active
        intransitive 'hve wasjaima', 'gawasjam sarwam liuhadis', 'ni wasjaiþ
        twaim paidom'. Or 'agisa mikillamma dishaibaida wesun' : 'ohtedun
        agisa mikilamma'. But can we generalise from that to other uses of
        the dative? I'll see if I can find a closer match somewhere. Or
        would a preposition help: miþ, fram, af?
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