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Re: Use of Gothic language in Spain (baurgs, Burgos, burgus) II

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  • Rydwlf
    Háils, I suspect this message never reached the list... my excuses if it did and you get it twice... Cheers, Rydwlf Rydwlf wrote: Dear
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 18 4:56 AM

      I suspect this message never reached the list... my excuses if it did and you get it twice...

      Rydwlf <mitsuhippon@...> wrote:
      Dear Ualarauans and all,

      As I wrote in a previous mail, unfortunately I can't think of any masculine substantive retaining a final -s from Latin. I'm not saying that there are none, but I really think it's difficult to find one and in any case that wouldn't be a strong proof for the first theory. Anyway I'd like to read more on this first theory, but I haven't been able to find more detailed references to the supposed burgus->Burgus->Burgos (let's say) evolution rather than for the burgus->burgo->Burgos one.

      Still the Carolus->Carlos would be proof supporting the first theory... but I don't know if it's enough to invalidate the 'second theory'.

      About the toponyms of Arab origin, I remember some sources telling about a number of 1500 place names of Arab origin in modern Spain. This is a high number indeed, but I'd like to confirm it. As a comparison, the current number of cities and villages in Spain is 8111 (National Statistics Institute, 2007). As you rightly point out, there are some toponyms basing in "al-qasr". In Spain there are like 25 place names basing in "Alcazar". In Portuguese, the corresponding name is "Alcácer", which also appears frequently. But we have to bear in mind too that alcazar became a Spanish word to designate a fortress, and it was used also after the Arab domination, so some of the places with that word can be not of Arab origin. Same applies to "Burgo", though. That would explain the apparition of place names of germanic/arab origin far from areas of dominance of the respective people.

      About Villafría, it's literal "cold village", but it could be a later assimilation from a *villa frija as you propose. The amount of suggestive names of Castilian villages is incredible. Sometimes when I drive through the roads of Valladolid, Palencia or Burgos, I find some references that trigger my imagination. Maybe some people in the list which have far more knowledge about linguistics and the Gothic language should take a look at a map of the area, if you haven't done that... I can guarantee some surprises :)

      (Right on the spot I remember driving past villages like "Palacios de Goda" (Palaces of the Goth (f.)), "Velliza" (reminds me of waíla + iza), "Wamba" (there is a village named after the King Wamba)...)

      Valladolid : http://www.diputaciondevalladolid.es/mapa/

      Nice name-seeing :)


      ualarauans <ualarauans@...> wrote:
      The very name of Castilia comes from a word which means "fortress".
      There are probably as much geographical names derived from Arab al-
      casr in the south, aren't there?

      Even if Burgos comes from Latin rather than Gothic, the Goths in
      Spain (if they still spoke their language, and I think some of them
      did) must have recognized it as (a Late Gothic reflex of Wulfilan)
      baurgs. Or the name (Baurgs) given and used by the Gothic elite was
      interpreted by Romans as Burgus. This would explain the lack of
      traces of the "breaking" (u > o) in the Modern Spanish form.


      > LN

      P.S. The name VILLAFRIA (DE BURGOS) – could it really be something
      like *villa frija "free settlement" in Late Gothic or is there a
      Romance etymology?


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