Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Intro and question about Lombardic...

Expand Messages
  • dciurchea
    May I suggest that IH means Iisus Hristos and IN means Iisus Nazarinean, as common for that site and that era. ... there is indeed much available online,
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 18, 2007
      May I suggest that IH means Iisus Hristos and IN means Iisus
      Nazarinean, as common for that site and that era.

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002@...>
      > Hails alla
      > In a quick response to a very well-placed query by Nathan
      Bellomy-McKnight about the Pernik Sword, might I posit the following:
      > 1. Some months ago I posted some info about this relic, and
      there is indeed much available online, although some of it is in
      Swedish, Italian, Bulgarian or German. Several of you out there can
      perhaps help me out here, although with sufficient time I may be
      able to ferret many such articles out and post them.
      > Archaeological dating techniques date the sweord to the mid-
      eighth Century AD. Pernik, where the sword was uncovered, lies
      between Sophia, Bulgaria, and the Serbian border.
      > 2. We can tell that it is Langobardic because the text
      corresponds best and most consistently to the beginning era of the
      Second Sound Shift (Zweite Lautverschiebung) that nowadays
      distinguishes High German from Low German. Thus, in a number of
      existing Bavarian-Austrian dialects, including Zimbri, initial
      voiced labials such as "b" became unvoiced, i.e., turned into "p".
      This explains the "pid" and "pn". The "hwil" or "huil" Nathan is
      right about; "hweil" was the Gothic for hour or time. Further, the
      Alpine Zimbrisch dialect likewise uses "pn" where NHD uses "bin".
      Thus, the most likely translation is found at the end of this poem,
      undoubtedly written by a GREAT BUT UNRECOGNIZED MASTER BARD (ahem:
      > I am mindful of inscriptions on a Langobardic sword;
      > Served well its master in the Balkans,
      > Sparked and rang off helm and shield,
      > Proved a voiceless turning point,
      > made
      > Raucous cries into faint gurgles,
      > Made the mighty yield.
      > yet poems past, and sabres hoary,
      > Strive for memory and vain glory:
      > I, within, not (the) hour await;
      > I, within, (the) hour am.
      > Please note that, as in Gothic, the letter "h" can indicate a
      guttural such as the "ch" in NHD "Bach" or "Buch". The "Pid" ,
      Gothic "beidan", to bide, to await.
      > Golja thuk,
      > Aizamunds
      > Arthur A. Jones
      > arthur.jones@...
      > Nathan Bellomy-McKnight <aelffin@...> wrote:
      > Hi everybody,
      > I've been subscribed to Gothic-L for a long time, but as far as I
      can recall
      > I've never posted anything. Ironically, my first posting isn't
      about Gothic,
      > but about another old Germanic language. I recently read about the
      > Sword. It was found in Bulgaria in the 1920s I think, and has the
      > inscription: +IHININIhVILPIDHINIhVILPN+
      > In the last couple of years, a researcher claimed to have
      identified the
      > language as Austro-Bavarian, Lombardic, or another early West
      > language. The translation they give is "I do not await eternity, I
      > eternity." But since the paper isn't available online, I'm not
      sure of the
      > intended parsing for such a translation.
      > Assuming a West Germanic language with "hvil" for
      E. "while"/G. "weile", I
      > would guess the inscription is supposed to be parsed as: "I hini
      ni hvilpid
      > hini hvilpn". This would make -id and -n pretty typical Germanic
      > inflections. But what's that p doing in there? -pid and -pn would
      > surprising verb endings I think. Could hvilp- be the root word?
      > that make it less likely to be cognate with "while/weile"? Are
      there any
      > potential cognates in other Germanic languages for somehting like
      > Maybe: whilpan, whilvan, wilvan, vilfid, whilfed, völvon
      (Volvo!)...??? Am I
      > barking up the wrong tree? Regardless though, if -id and -n are
      > inflections, makes hvilpid sound like a past tense to me. Does
      anybody know
      > if "hini" has cognates with a meaning similar to "eternity"?
      > Personally, I think hvilp- (if that's the correct parsing) is more
      > cognate with "wolf" (cf. PIE *wlp-), making the p in hvilp- an
      archaism that
      > was dropped in other Germanic languages. That would make
      Lombardic: I hini
      > ni hvilpid hini hvilpn. Something like "I am not wolfish, I am
      wolfen" or
      > "I'm not wolf*like*, I *am* a wolf". In that case,
      Lombardic "hini" would
      > probably be cognate with "hine", the Anglo-Saxon accusative case
      of "he". Or
      > maybe hini functions like German heiße (Swedish heter, Icelandic
      heiþur) =
      > "my name is", so Hvilpid would be a proper name (is Úlfið a
      name?), similar
      > to Scandinavian Ulfs, Gothic Wulfilas, or German Wolfgang, giving
      > sentence a meaning akin to "Wolfgang's not just my name, I really
      am a
      > wolf!" (Jag heter inte Ulfs, jag heter ulf / Ich heiße nicht
      Wolfgang, ich
      > heiße Wolf) Not a half bad thing to inscribe on your sword if you
      ask me...
      > Totally speculative, of course.
      > Any thoughts?
      > Best,
      > Nathan McKnight
      > www.nathanmcknight.com
      > Nathan Bellomy
      > Assistant Editor, Science
      > McGraw-Hill School Solutions Group
      > 8787 Orion Place | Columbus, OH 43240
      > Phone: 614-430-4990 | Fax: 614-430-4403
      > nathan_bellomy@...
      > The difference between
      > theory and practice
      > is smaller in theory
      > than it is in practice.
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.