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Re: Toledo

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  • faltin2001
    ... and ... Hi, I don t think so, because the Goths in Spain didn t speak Gothic, but Latin or some vulgar Latin with a few Germanic/Gothic remnants. The
    Message 1 of 53 , Jul 1, 2007
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      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Abdoer-Ragmaan Lombard"
      <manielombard@...> wrote:
      >
      > Perhaps I've used an unsuitable font, so here a repost:
      >
      > Could Tulaytula, the Arabic form of Toledo, have
      > been derived from *Tôlêtula", a Gothic hypocorism of *Tôlêtô < Latin
      > Tôlêtum? Perhaps *Taúlêtô should be regarded as the Gothic etymon
      > (long unstressed "ô" having merged in Vulgar Latin with short /o/,
      and
      > seeing that Arabic uses a short "u" preceded by an emphatic t, in
      > order to reproduce an "o"; long "ê" is given as "ay" [= "ê" in spoken
      > Arabic]), which would give *Taúlêtula.


      Hi,

      I don't think so, because the Goths in Spain didn't speak Gothic, but
      Latin or some vulgar Latin with a few Germanic/Gothic remnants. The
      Tabula gentes of about 550AD suggests so, and there is no hint that
      they had any difficulties communicating with the local population in
      Romanic without interpretors.There is also no indication that written
      Gothic was used in Gaul or Spain. After all, the Goths in Gaul and
      Spain were a Roman federate army, which also included many Roman
      provincials and Latin was no doubt the lingua franca of the various
      western Gothic groups since the 5th century.

      Cheers,
      Dirk








      >
    • Michael Erwin
      Hails, I m afraid your email formatting is screwed up and I can t reply below. The map shows dense concentrations of Germanic place-names in the far northwest,
      Message 53 of 53 , Jul 22, 2007
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        Hails,

        I'm afraid your email formatting is screwed up and I can't reply
        below. The map shows dense concentrations of Germanic place-names in
        the far northwest, i.e. the Swabisk area, a local concentration in
        northern Catalonia, and few elsewhere. I think this shows that they
        are better at identifying West-Germanic place-names than East-
        Germanic ones, and nothing else.

        Mike

        On Jul 18, 2007, at 4:39 PM, Rydwlf wrote:
        > Hi there,
        >
        > I have the feeling that the issue of Spanish toponimes of germanic
        > origin has been debated some time in the past in this same list. I
        > am sure about the germanic (specially gothic) origin of some
        > settlements, mostly villages (that still retain the name). There is
        > a high number of examples.
        >
        > I have done some research with Google but all the information I
        > find is quite fragmentary. Anyway if you're interested I can try to
        > give a list of webpages dealing with the issue (and mentioning
        > quite a lot of examples), and some book references.
        >
        > Figure 15 in the following page can give a rough idea of the
        > distribution of toponimes of germanic origin in Iberia.
        > Unfortunately I cannot quote the sources, but the author probably
        > does so in some page of his work (sorry but I'm short of time today).
        > http://libro.uca.edu/stanislawski/portugal.htm
        >
        > Hope it helps,
        > Ryd.



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