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Re: New file uploaded to gothic-l (Christmas and Yule)

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  • thiudans
    tammikuu (January) helmikuu (February) maaliskuu (March) huhtikuu (April) toukokuu (May) kesäkuu (June) heinäkuu (July)
    Message 1 of 96 , May 1, 2007
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      tammikuu
      (January) helmikuu
      (February) maaliskuu
      (March) huhtikuu
      (April) toukokuu
      (May) kesäkuu
      (June) heinäkuu
      (July) elokuu
      (August) syyskuu
      (September) lokakuu
      (October) marraskuu
      (November) joulukuu
      (December)
      http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/3236/?letter=C&spage\
      =2

      I couldn't find translations for the names but had to look up the parts:
      1. Oak Moon
      2. Pearl Moon
      3. Earthy Moon
      4. (? Related to shouting?) Moon
      5. Sowing Moon
      6. Summer Moon
      7. Hay Moon
      8. Life Moon
      9. Autumn Moon
      10. Mud Moon
      11. Dead Moon
      12. Yule Moon

      Now that we've covered most of the appropriate region, what do you
      think?

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hails Frijandeis,
      >
      > Please allow me to throw a heathen ringer into this process. Llama
      Nom's suggestion of months named for agricultural and other seasonal
      necessities reminds me of the Latvian traditional (pre-Christian)
      months, a few of which parallel the pondered Gothic equivalents:
      >
      > January Ziemas (winter)
      > February Svecu (candles)
      > March Sersnu (late frost)
      > April Sulu (rising sap)
      > May Lapu (leaves)
      > June Ziedu (flowers)
      > July Siena (hay)
      > August Rudzu (rye)
      > September Silu (heather)
      > October Velu (devil)
      > November Sala (winter frost)
      > December Vilku (wolves)
      >
      > Unfortunately, modern Latvian uses numbers for days of the week
      (pirmdiena=Monday, otrdiena=Tuesday, etc.), and Latin names for the
      months. Diemzel es nepiekritu.
      >
      > Thuk golja,
      >
      > Aizamunds.
      >
      >
      >
      > llama_nom 600cell@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > > Feb. OE supports Sauil-,
      >
      > All the sources I've seen cite 'sol' in OE Solmónaþ with a short
      > vowel: OE sol, n. "mud, mire, wet sand, wallowing place",
      > solu/solwe/sylu/syle, f. "mire, miry place"; sol, adjective "filthy",
      > solian "to make/become dirty", sylian "to make dirty", related by
      > ablaut to Go. bi-sáuljan. So February is the muddy month, February
      > Fill-dyke (German variants: Volburn, Vulneburn), rather than the sunny
      > month!
      >
      > http://runeberg.org/svetym/1029.html
      > http://runeberg.org/svetym/0911.html
      >
      > Compare also the German name: Sollman (Selle, Sille, Sulle, Silmaent);
      > perhaps semantically related to Zelle, Zille, Zulle (cf. Go. *tulla
      > "sod", borrowed into Italian and distinguishable from Langobardic by
      > the unshifted initial consonant)?
      >
      > LN
      >
      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" thiudans@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Hails
      > >
      > > Good idea. It seems month names could be more flexible and adaptable
      > > in the Germanic world. I think it reasonable to take those
      month-names
      > > which most closely harmonize with the agricultural schedule of the
      > > societies in the area where Goths lived during the 4th century.
      > > According to the wiki page on Germanic calendars, December has Jul
      or
      > > its variant.
      > >
      > > January in OE, ON supports Jiuleis. OHG supports *hardu-menoths or
      > > maybe eisa-
      > >
      > > Feb. OE supports Sauil-, OHG supports Haurna-
      > > Mar. OE Hre∂, ON supports Go. aina-mnths., OHG supports Go.
      > > ?*Laggi(?t[h])an(-mnths.)
      > >
      > > May, OE & OHG support *threi- or *thrija-miluk-
      > >
      > > June OE uses the Li∂ system; ON supports *Sauil- and OHG has
      > Brach-
      > > "fallow"
      > >
      > > July ON and OHG both support Go. *hawi- or hauja-mnths.
      > >
      > > Aug. revolves around plants and harvest: Go. *asani-mnths "harvest
      > month".
      > >
      > > Sep. OE, ON and OHG all support Go. *harbisi-mnths. "picking month".
      > >
      > > Oct. lacks agreement.
      > >
      > > Nov. might be something like nibla-mnths. or friuza-mnths.
      > >
      > > Dec. would be Fruma Jiuleis I think.
      > >
      > >
      > > It might be good to consider monthnames in the style of ON Heyannir,
      > > OHG Scheiding, etc., that is the abstract or poetic terms rather
      than
      > > forms dependent on suffixing -menoths.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Many thanks for this Arthur. I read it ages ago, but had
      > > > completely
      > > > > forgotten that detail about the phantom status of *Naubaimbair!
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/index.html
      > > > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/report.pdf
      > > > >
      > > > > The relevant section is on p. 54. Which leaves us with just
      'fruma
      > > > > jiuleis' as the name of the month, and no way of knowing whether
      > > > the
      > > > > illegible word was a synonym (*Naubaimbair or otherwise) or
      > > > something
      > > > > else entirely.
      > > >
      > > > But if Naubaimbair is a fancy, what's worth our reconstruction of
      > > > the Gothic month names based on Latin? If only fruma jiuleis is
      > > > attested, then one could logically suppose that all other Gothic
      > > > month names were also Germanic. Afaik there were several Calender
      > > > traditions in Germania, with their own month names. Which of them
      > > > are we to follow? E.g. OHG and OE give only one match which could
      > > > speak for Go. Austramenoþs "April".
      > > >
      > > > Ualarauans
      > > >
      > > > > Re. alternative names, I just came across the following Old West
      > > > Norse
      > > > > and Old Swedish proposals: Dróttins burðar tíð; gudz
      födzlo hötidh
      > > > [
      > > > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julfest ], neither of which caught
      on.
      > > > > So maybe we could have: 'fraujins mel gabaurþais', or
      similar.
      > > > Bit of
      > > > > a mouthful, I know... Thinks: does the final vowel in
      > > > Finnish 'juhla'
      > > > > and 'joula' imply a specifically East Germanic origin for the
      > > > > loanword, as opposed to Proto Germanic -o or Proto Nordic -u? If
      > > > so,
      > > > > we have a nice piece of evidence for the survival of both
      versions
      > > > in
      > > > > East Germanic: *jaihvla and *jiula.
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ARTHUR A. JONES
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
      Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the gothic-l group. File : /Original
      Message 96 of 96 , Feb 5
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        Hello,


        This email message is a notification to let you know that
        a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the gothic-l
        group.


        File : /Original Visigothic Poems/Inclite parentis alme Christe
        Uploaded by : lingua22 <roellingua@...>
        Description : A visigothic poem from the Azagra Codex


        You can access this file at the URL:
        https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/files/Original%20Visigothic%20Poems/Inclite%20parentis%20alme%20Christe


        To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
        https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


        Regards,


        lingua22 <roellingua@...>
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