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Re: [gothic-l] Re: New file uploaded to gothic-l (Christmas and Yule)

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  • Arthur Jones
    Hails Frijandeis, Please allow me to throw a heathen ringer into this process. Llama Nom s suggestion of months named for agricultural and other seasonal
    Message 1 of 96 , May 1, 2007
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      Hails Frijandeis,

      Please allow me to throw a heathen ringer into this process. Llama Nom's suggestion of months named for agricultural and other seasonal necessities reminds me of the Latvian traditional (pre-Christian) months, a few of which parallel the pondered Gothic equivalents:

      January Ziemas (winter)
      February Svecu (candles)
      March Sersnu (late frost)
      April Sulu (rising sap)
      May Lapu (leaves)
      June Ziedu (flowers)
      July Siena (hay)
      August Rudzu (rye)
      September Silu (heather)
      October Velu (devil)
      November Sala (winter frost)
      December Vilku (wolves)

      Unfortunately, modern Latvian uses numbers for days of the week (pirmdiena=Monday, otrdiena=Tuesday, etc.), and Latin names for the months. Diemzel es nepiekritu.

      Thuk golja,

      Aizamunds.



      llama_nom <600cell@...> wrote:


      > Feb. OE supports Sauil-,

      All the sources I've seen cite 'sol' in OE Solmónaþ with a short
      vowel: OE sol, n. "mud, mire, wet sand, wallowing place",
      solu/solwe/sylu/syle, f. "mire, miry place"; sol, adjective "filthy",
      solian "to make/become dirty", sylian "to make dirty", related by
      ablaut to Go. bi-sáuljan. So February is the muddy month, February
      Fill-dyke (German variants: Volburn, Vulneburn), rather than the sunny
      month!

      http://runeberg.org/svetym/1029.html
      http://runeberg.org/svetym/0911.html

      Compare also the German name: Sollman (Selle, Sille, Sulle, Silmaent);
      perhaps semantically related to Zelle, Zille, Zulle (cf. Go. *tulla
      "sod", borrowed into Italian and distinguishable from Langobardic by
      the unshifted initial consonant)?

      LN

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hails
      >
      > Good idea. It seems month names could be more flexible and adaptable
      > in the Germanic world. I think it reasonable to take those month-names
      > which most closely harmonize with the agricultural schedule of the
      > societies in the area where Goths lived during the 4th century.
      > According to the wiki page on Germanic calendars, December has Jul or
      > its variant.
      >
      > January in OE, ON supports Jiuleis. OHG supports *hardu-menoths or
      > maybe eisa-
      >
      > Feb. OE supports Sauil-, OHG supports Haurna-
      > Mar. OE Hre∂, ON supports Go. aina-mnths., OHG supports Go.
      > ?*Laggi(?t[h])an(-mnths.)
      >
      > May, OE & OHG support *threi- or *thrija-miluk-
      >
      > June OE uses the Li∂ system; ON supports *Sauil- and OHG has
      Brach-
      > "fallow"
      >
      > July ON and OHG both support Go. *hawi- or hauja-mnths.
      >
      > Aug. revolves around plants and harvest: Go. *asani-mnths "harvest
      month".
      >
      > Sep. OE, ON and OHG all support Go. *harbisi-mnths. "picking month".
      >
      > Oct. lacks agreement.
      >
      > Nov. might be something like nibla-mnths. or friuza-mnths.
      >
      > Dec. would be Fruma Jiuleis I think.
      >
      >
      > It might be good to consider monthnames in the style of ON Heyannir,
      > OHG Scheiding, etc., that is the abstract or poetic terms rather than
      > forms dependent on suffixing -menoths.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@> wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Many thanks for this Arthur. I read it ages ago, but had
      > > completely
      > > > forgotten that detail about the phantom status of *Naubaimbair!
      > > >
      > > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/index.html
      > > > http://www.modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~david/report.pdf
      > > >
      > > > The relevant section is on p. 54. Which leaves us with just 'fruma
      > > > jiuleis' as the name of the month, and no way of knowing whether
      > > the
      > > > illegible word was a synonym (*Naubaimbair or otherwise) or
      > > something
      > > > else entirely.
      > >
      > > But if Naubaimbair is a fancy, what's worth our reconstruction of
      > > the Gothic month names based on Latin? If only fruma jiuleis is
      > > attested, then one could logically suppose that all other Gothic
      > > month names were also Germanic. Afaik there were several Calender
      > > traditions in Germania, with their own month names. Which of them
      > > are we to follow? E.g. OHG and OE give only one match which could
      > > speak for Go. Austramenoþs "April".
      > >
      > > Ualarauans
      > >
      > > > Re. alternative names, I just came across the following Old West
      > > Norse
      > > > and Old Swedish proposals: Dróttins burðar tíð; gudz födzlo hötidh
      > > [
      > > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julfest ], neither of which caught on.
      > > > So maybe we could have: 'fraujins mel gabaurþais', or similar.
      > > Bit of
      > > > a mouthful, I know... Thinks: does the final vowel in
      > > Finnish 'juhla'
      > > > and 'joula' imply a specifically East Germanic origin for the
      > > > loanword, as opposed to Proto Germanic -o or Proto Nordic -u? If
      > > so,
      > > > we have a nice piece of evidence for the survival of both versions
      > > in
      > > > East Germanic: *jaihvla and *jiula.
      > >
      >






      ARTHUR A. JONES


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
      Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the gothic-l group. File : /Original
      Message 96 of 96 , Feb 5
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        Hello,


        This email message is a notification to let you know that
        a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the gothic-l
        group.


        File : /Original Visigothic Poems/Inclite parentis alme Christe
        Uploaded by : lingua22 <roellingua@...>
        Description : A visigothic poem from the Azagra Codex


        You can access this file at the URL:
        https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gothic-l/files/Original%20Visigothic%20Poems/Inclite%20parentis%20alme%20Christe


        To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
        https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


        Regards,


        lingua22 <roellingua@...>
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