Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Want your suggestions

Expand Messages
  • Fredrik
    Hi! I want to here your suggestions about some words. First I want to hear about my suggestion for halo / aura / nimbus . It is wulthuliuhath . Based on
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 14, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi!

      I want to here your suggestions about some words.

      First I want to hear about my suggestion for 'halo' / 'aura' / 'nimbus'.
      It is 'wulthuliuhath'. Based on german heiligenschein and icel.
      dýrðarljómi.

      Here's what I need you to help me with:

      1) Politics, political, politician.

      2) Independent, (maybe also a word for dependent).
      I already used a word 'silbaraginonds' in the meaning 'self governing'
      so I want a word with a meaning so similar as possible to independent.

      3) Relation, (german verhältniss).
      E.g. In the sentence: They have destroyed all the patriarchal and
      idyllic relations.

      4) Personal, (may also a word for person).
      E.g. In the sentence: The personal dignity.

      5) Admire.
      E.g. In the sentence: The two towers, which they so much admire.

      6) Complement, (german ergänzung)

      7) Instrument, (not necessarly a musical instrument).
      Here I mean e.g. a instrument of production.


      This would realy help me alot. So please give me your best ideas.

      /Fredrik
    • ualarauans
      Hails, Frithureik ... for halo / aura / nimbus . ... The light of glory is good! Moreover that AFAIK wulthus is used mostly in the religious sense in
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 14, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hails, Frithureik

        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@...> wrote:
        >
        > I want to here your suggestions about some words.
        >
        > First I want to hear about my suggestion
        for 'halo' / 'aura' / 'nimbus'.
        > It is 'wulthuliuhath'. Based on german heiligenschein and icel.
        > dýrðarljómi.

        The "light of glory" is good! Moreover that AFAIK wulthus is used
        mostly in the religious sense in the Gothic Bible. Could it also be
        *wulthuwaips M.-i (?) or *wulthuwipja F.-jo "corona gloriae" if
        specifically referring to the disc of light surrounding heads of
        saints, so that the both elements alliterate; or, descriptively,
        liuhadeina wipja as a more "technical" term (cf. thaurneina wipja
        Mc. 15:17)? When you being a Gothic neophyte trying to paint some
        images on a wall in a new-erected/restored church in Gothia Minor,
        you may be told by your tutor (probably a Byzantine captive):
        gasatei jah jainamma wipja tho liuhadein, unte weiha ist. But when
        on a sermon they would probably say: insaihvaith du wulthuwipjom
        weihane gudis, thozei skeinand in andwairthja manne...

        Btw, the Greek word stephanos "crown" which Gothic waips and wipja
        translate did in fact connote "glory" by itself, as winners in
        public competitions were decorated with such crowns in Hellas. When
        looking for a Gothic word for "nimbus" we perhaps should bear in
        mind that this was no Germanic item, and that the historic Goths
        could have seen it on icons and frescoes in Byzantium and later in
        Italy. What was the Greek word for it? It could (have) serve(d) as a
        base for a Gothic one. For example, if it were *hierostephanos or
        *hagiostephanos, it could be calqued as *weihawipja or borrowed as
        *iairustaifanus, maybe.

        > Here's what I need you to help me with:
        >
        > 1) Politics, political, politician.

        Nice occasion to start thinking what the politics actually is :)
        a) science or art of governing a state. If "state" be reiki (it also
        can imply "state power" I guess), then it could be a compound with
        reiki- or a couple of words. I'd suggest *reikileisei F.-n as an
        abstract noun (lit. "knowledge of rule", like lubjaleisei "knowledge
        of herbs" > "witchcraft"). "Political" being then *reikileis,
        and "politician" – substantivized *reikileis, sa *reikileisa (just
        like lubjaleisai pl. translating Greek noun GOHTES in 2. Tim 3:13).
        b) political affairs, i.e. debates, elections etc – no idea at the
        moment.
        c) political principles - muneis (pl.) bi *reikinassu? *reikinassus
        M.-u would probably come close to what we mean with "state policy",
        i.e. "way of those at power to act in internal or external affairs",
        for instance, sa innuma reikinassus N-landis ist manamildeis. The
        verb reikinon attested as "to rule over smb./smth" could probably be
        used for "to execute political power". "Politician" as "statesman" –
        maybe *reikinonds M.-nd or something like?

        > 2) Independent, (maybe also a word for dependent).
        > I already used a word 'silbaraginonds' in the meaning 'self
        governing'
        > so I want a word with a meaning so similar as possible to
        independent.

        *silbaraginonds is good in that meaning. If we describe a country
        dependent on another country, could we invent smth like
        *skattagibands or *gildagibands, lit. "paying money", "tributary"
        (cf ON skattkonungr, a king dependent on another king and paying him
        tribute (skattr)). I know "tributary" didn't necessarily connote a
        political dependence as we understand it today, but the word could
        acquire more abstract semantics with time. For instance, both the
        Eastern and the Western Empires were *skattagibandona to Attila, but
        they weren't in fact politically dependent on the Hunnish tribal
        union, but only forced to pay them. But for nowadays, we could
        probably say: Fawaim menothum uslithanaim warth Swartafairguni reiki
        unskattagibando "a couple of months ago Montenegro became an
        independent state".

        To emphasize that a country has liberated itself of a dependence
        which was very hard to bear, one could probably use *jukalaus as
        opposed to *ufjukeis -ja "subjugated" (after ufaitheis)

        > 3) Relation, (german verhältniss).
        > E.g. In the sentence: They have destroyed all the patriarchal and
        > idyllic relations.

        *gaha:hi N.-ja? Though it's more to German Zusammenhang (cf. the
        attested adverb gahahjo which Streitberg translates as "im
        Zusammenhang". Or maybe one could use gawiss
        F.-i "Verbindung", "Band" (ibidem) in an abstract sense.
        "Gaterun allos audagos gawissins thozei thai airizans anafulhun".

        > 4) Personal, (may also a word for person).
        > E.g. In the sentence: The personal dignity.

        Probably a possessive pronoun + silbins M./silbons F. for "personal"
        would do. E.g. theina silbins wairthida "your personal dignity". To
        translate "person" is a difficult task. *manawaihts F.-i "individual
        human being"? Maybe mannisko N.-n, irrespective of the person's
        gender?

        > 5) Admire.
        > E.g. In the sentence: The two towers, which they so much admire.

        sildaleikjan? Jaina twa kelikna ana thaimei (bi thoei, [in] thize)
        sildaleikjand swa abraba

        > 6) Complement, (german ergänzung)

        *biauk N.-a (bi-aukan "to add")?

        > 7) Instrument, (not necessarly a musical instrument).
        > Here I mean e.g. a instrument of production.

        Maybe, *saru N.-wa, pl. sarwa, attested as "weapons", but cf. OE
        searo "device", "design", "arms", "equipment".

        > This would realy help me alot. So please give me your best ideas.

        Ualarauans
      • Michael Erwin
        ... ... In my understanding, statecraft is only part of politics. A polis might be a gawi; the people are the thiuda; the government is probably the
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 14, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          On Sep 14, 2006, at 12:21 PM, ualarauans wrote:

          > Hails, Frithureik
          >
          > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@...> wrote:

          <snip>

          >> Here's what I need you to help me with:
          >>
          >> 1) Politics, political, politician.
          >
          > Nice occasion to start thinking what the politics actually is :)
          > a) science or art of governing a state. If "state" be reiki (it also
          > can imply "state power" I guess), then it could be a compound with
          > reiki- or a couple of words. I'd suggest *reikileisei F.-n as an
          > abstract noun (lit. "knowledge of rule", like lubjaleisei "knowledge
          > of herbs" > "witchcraft"). "Political" being then *reikileis,
          > and "politician" – substantivized *reikileis, sa *reikileisa (just
          > like lubjaleisai pl. translating Greek noun GOHTES in 2. Tim 3:13).
          > b) political affairs, i.e. debates, elections etc – no idea at the
          > moment.
          > c) political principles - muneis (pl.) bi *reikinassu? *reikinassus
          > M.-u would probably come close to what we mean with "state policy",
          > i.e. "way of those at power to act in internal or external affairs",
          > for instance, sa innuma reikinassus N-landis ist manamildeis. The
          > verb reikinon attested as "to rule over smb./smth" could probably be
          > used for "to execute political power". "Politician" as "statesman" –
          > maybe *reikinonds M.-nd or something like?

          In my understanding, statecraft is only part of politics. A polis
          might be a gawi; the people are the thiuda; the government is
          probably the reik-something; reikinassus looks okay there.

          We have two main sources for Gothic political semantics: (1)
          Wulfila's translation and (2) political (usually royal) names.
          Wulfila generally applies some terms to Jesus (thiudans, frauja,
          etc.) and other terms to ambiguous or villainous figures (reiks,
          kindins, etc.). Most of the political names involve -reiks (or -ric)
          (but not in the late 370s/early 380s).

          A ruler is, of course, reiks (in monarchies this would mainly denote
          the monarch; in other places, this could easily denote any politician
          or lobbyist, while connoting either ambition or corruption); an
          advisor is, in Wright, ragineis (including P.M., cabinet, and legal
          counsel?); an official is, of course, andbahts (excepting cabinet
          officials). Of course we still need words to distinguish cabinet from
          legislature from courts.

          A popular leader might be thiudans, especially if he is shaping
          politics and he is not a politician, e.g. MLK. But thiudans might
          mean something else, and something else might mean this. Any other
          suggestions?

          >> 2) Independent, (maybe also a word for dependent).
          >> I already used a word 'silbaraginonds' in the meaning 'self
          > governing'
          >> so I want a word with a meaning so similar as possible to
          > independent.
          >
          > *silbaraginonds is good in that meaning. If we describe a country
          > dependent on another country, could we invent smth like
          > *skattagibands or *gildagibands, lit. "paying money", "tributary"
          > (cf ON skattkonungr, a king dependent on another king and paying him
          > tribute (skattr)). I know "tributary" didn't necessarily connote a
          > political dependence as we understand it today, but the word could
          > acquire more abstract semantics with time. For instance, both the
          > Eastern and the Western Empires were *skattagibandona to Attila, but
          > they weren't in fact politically dependent on the Hunnish tribal
          > union, but only forced to pay them. But for nowadays, we could
          > probably say: Fawaim menothum uslithanaim warth Swartafairguni reiki
          > unskattagibando "a couple of months ago Montenegro became an
          > independent state".
          >
          > To emphasize that a country has liberated itself of a dependence
          > which was very hard to bear, one could probably use *jukalaus as
          > opposed to *ufjukeis -ja "subjugated" (after ufaitheis)

          We might also want words for degrees of federation or alliance.

          >> 3) Relation, (german verhältniss).
          >> E.g. In the sentence: They have destroyed all the patriarchal and
          >> idyllic relations.
          >
          > *gaha:hi N.-ja? Though it's more to German Zusammenhang (cf. the
          > attested adverb gahahjo which Streitberg translates as "im
          > Zusammenhang". Or maybe one could use gawiss
          > F.-i "Verbindung", "Band" (ibidem) in an abstract sense.
          > "Gaterun allos audagos gawissins thozei thai airizans anafulhun".

          I have no idea what the example sentence means.

          >> 4) Personal, (may also a word for person).
          >> E.g. In the sentence: The personal dignity.
          >
          > Probably a possessive pronoun + silbins M./silbons F. for "personal"
          > would do. E.g. theina silbins wairthida "your personal dignity". To
          > translate "person" is a difficult task. *manawaihts F.-i "individual
          > human being"? Maybe mannisko N.-n, irrespective of the person's
          > gender?

          I'd start with 'andwairthi' - presence. personal would be the
          genitive - andwairthjis.

          >> 5) Admire.
          >> E.g. In the sentence: The two towers, which they so much admire.
          >
          > sildaleikjan? Jaina twa kelikna ana thaimei (bi thoei, [in] thize)
          > sildaleikjand swa abraba
          >
          >> 6) Complement, (german ergänzung)
          >
          > *biauk N.-a (bi-aukan "to add")?

          In the sense of 'perfect match' or 'that which completes'?

          I'd go by context, but 'anthar halbs' might work in some cases.

          (regardless of its English meaning).

          >> 7) Instrument, (not necessarly a musical instrument).
          >> Here I mean e.g. a instrument of production.
          >
          > Maybe, *saru N.-wa, pl. sarwa, attested as "weapons", but cf. OE
          > searo "device", "design", "arms", "equipment".

          Sounds good to me.

          >> This would realy help me alot. So please give me your best ideas.
          >
          > Ualarauans

          I'd like to help more but I'm out of my depth.
        • ualarauans
          Hi, Michael ... Couldn t gawi mean a particular province or whatever administrative district, such as a state of the U.S.A., a department of France, a
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 14, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi, Michael

            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Michael Erwin <merwin@...> wrote:
            >
            > In my understanding, statecraft is only part of politics. A polis
            > might be a gawi; the people are the thiuda; the government is
            > probably the reik-something; reikinassus looks okay there.

            Couldn't gawi mean a particular province or whatever administrative
            district, such as a state of the U.S.A., a department of France, a
            bundesland of Germany, a wojwodstwo of Poland etc. For example,
            Waurtislawi ist haubidabaurgs this Siliggiskins gaujis "Wroclaw is
            the capital city of the Silesian province"?

            Didn't thiuda mean also a territory inhabited by a people?
            Gutthiuda – a Gothic country, not only a Gothic people, right?

            > A ruler is, of course, reiks (in monarchies this would mainly
            denote
            > the monarch; in other places, this could easily denote any
            politician
            > or lobbyist, while connoting either ambition or corruption); an
            > advisor is, in Wright, ragineis (including P.M., cabinet, and legal
            > counsel?); an official is, of course, andbahts (excepting cabinet
            > officials). Of course we still need words to distinguish cabinet
            from
            > legislature from courts.

            A "minister" could probably be ragineis, for raginon means both "to
            advice" and "to govern", especially "to govern a province" (cf. Luc.
            2:2 wisandin kindina Swriais = raginondin Saurim). Hence could be
            derived "to manage a government department". Then kindins is
            a "governor". "Prime minister" - sa fruma ragineis or *raginafaths
            M.-i (gen. –fadis)?

            > A popular leader might be thiudans, especially if he is shaping
            > politics and he is not a politician, e.g. MLK. But thiudans might
            > mean something else, and something else might mean this. Any other
            > suggestions?

            A "president" of a republic could probably be the attested
            faurstasseis M.-ja or a calqued *faursitands M.-nd, as distinguished
            from "monarch" (thiudans) or "dictator" (*ainareiks?). "Head of a
            state" irrespective of the government form - *reikiwaldands M.-nd
            (after garda-waldands)?

            > We might also want words for degrees of federation or alliance.

            I suggested *lithureiki for "federative republic". Maybe, trausti
            could be used for "alliance" or "federation"? *Thiudatrausti – "an
            alliance of several ethnic territories (thiudos)"?

            > >> 3) Relation, (german verhältniss).
            > >> E.g. In the sentence: They have destroyed all the patriarchal
            and
            > >> idyllic relations.
            > >
            > > *gaha:hi N.-ja? Though it's more to German Zusammenhang (cf. the
            > > attested adverb gahahjo which Streitberg translates as "im
            > > Zusammenhang". Or maybe one could use gawiss
            > > F.-i "Verbindung", "Band" (ibidem) in an abstract sense.
            > > "Gaterun allos audagos gawissins thozei thai airizans anafulhun".
            >
            > I have no idea what the example sentence means.

            I tried to translate "idyllic" with audags and "patriarchal" with a
            description lit. "[relations] which those before have handed down to
            us". Maybe it would be better to say thozei ATTANS anafulhun, to
            stress they were "PATRI-archal". But I have no idea what the context
            is.

            Another place I'd like to correct is the example with "nimbus". It
            should have been: gasatei jah jainamma wipja tho liuhadeinon, unte
            weiha ist. Weiha is of course a weak noun masculine here.

            Ualarauans
          • Fredrik
            ... It could be good to have a special word if we mean the disc as you say. What I ment was more like a light around a person, maybe smth like the new age
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 18, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              > The "light of glory" is good! Moreover that AFAIK wulthus is used
              > mostly in the religious sense in the Gothic Bible. Could it also be
              > *wulthuwaips M.-i (?) or *wulthuwipja F.-jo "corona gloriae" if
              > specifically referring to the disc of light surrounding heads of
              > saints, so that the both elements alliterate; or, descriptively,
              > liuhadeina wipja as a more "technical" term (cf. thaurneina wipja
              > Mc. 15:17)? When you being a Gothic neophyte trying to paint some
              > images on a wall in a new-erected/restored church in Gothia Minor,
              > you may be told by your tutor (probably a Byzantine captive):
              > gasatei jah jainamma wipja tho liuhadein, unte weiha ist. But when
              > on a sermon they would probably say: insaihvaith du wulthuwipjom
              > weihane gudis, thozei skeinand in andwairthja manne...

              It could be good to have a special word if we mean the disc as you
              say. What I ment was more like a light around a person, maybe smth
              like the new age people believes in.


              >
              > > Here's what I need you to help me with:
              > >
              > > 1) Politics, political, politician.
              >
              > Nice occasion to start thinking what the politics actually is :)
              > a) science or art of governing a state. If "state" be reiki (it
              also
              > can imply "state power" I guess), then it could be a compound with
              > reiki- or a couple of words. I'd suggest *reikileisei F.-n as an
              > abstract noun (lit. "knowledge of rule", like
              lubjaleisei "knowledge
              > of herbs" > "witchcraft"). "Political" being then *reikileis,
              > and "politician" – substantivized *reikileis, sa *reikileisa (just
              > like lubjaleisai pl. translating Greek noun GOHTES in 2. Tim 3:13).
              > b) political affairs, i.e. debates, elections etc – no idea at the
              > moment.
              > c) political principles - muneis (pl.) bi *reikinassu? *reikinassus
              > M.-u would probably come close to what we mean with "state policy",
              > i.e. "way of those at power to act in internal or external
              affairs",
              > for instance, sa innuma reikinassus N-landis ist manamildeis. The
              > verb reikinon attested as "to rule over smb./smth" could probably
              be
              > used for "to execute political power". "Politician" as "statesman" –

              > maybe *reikinonds M.-nd or something like?

              > *silbaraginonds is good in that meaning. If we describe a country
              > dependent on another country, could we invent smth like
              > *skattagibands or *gildagibands, lit. "paying money", "tributary"
              > (cf ON skattkonungr, a king dependent on another king and paying
              him
              > tribute (skattr)). I know "tributary" didn't necessarily connote a
              > political dependence as we understand it today, but the word could
              > acquire more abstract semantics with time. For instance, both the
              > Eastern and the Western Empires were *skattagibandona to Attila,
              but
              > they weren't in fact politically dependent on the Hunnish tribal
              > union, but only forced to pay them. But for nowadays, we could
              > probably say: Fawaim menothum uslithanaim warth Swartafairguni
              reiki
              > unskattagibando "a couple of months ago Montenegro became an
              > independent state".
              >
              > To emphasize that a country has liberated itself of a dependence
              > which was very hard to bear, one could probably use *jukalaus as
              > opposed to *ufjukeis -ja "subjugated" (after ufaitheis)


              Your suggestions are good if we talk about an independent state (as I
              did). But if we want words for the verb to depend.
              E.g. in mathematics y depends on x in a function.

              >
              > > 3) Relation, (german verhältniss).
              > > E.g. In the sentence: They have destroyed all the patriarchal and
              > > idyllic relations.
              >
              > *gaha:hi N.-ja? Though it's more to German Zusammenhang (cf. the
              > attested adverb gahahjo which Streitberg translates as "im
              > Zusammenhang". Or maybe one could use gawiss
              > F.-i "Verbindung", "Band" (ibidem) in an abstract sense.
              > "Gaterun allos audagos gawissins thozei thai airizans anafulhun".

              I like this to, so I'm gonna use it.
              Maybe we don't need a special word for 'idyll' and 'idyllic' but
              instead use a word with similar meaning as you did.
              I like to be very correct when translating so I tried to invent words
              for idyll and patriarchat, and the adjectives to them.
              Idyll = frithuhlasei (cf. icel. friðsæll)
              patriarchate = fadruwaldufni.


              >
              > > 5) Admire.
              > > E.g. In the sentence: The two towers, which they so much admire.
              >
              > sildaleikjan? Jaina twa kelikna ana thaimei (bi thoei, [in] thize)
              > sildaleikjand swa abraba
              >

              I thought of this word but wasnt sure. But now I am.

              > > 6) Complement, (german ergänzung)
              >
              > *biauk N.-a (bi-aukan "to add")?
              >
              > > 7) Instrument, (not necessarly a musical instrument).
              > > Here I mean e.g. a instrument of production.
              >
              > Maybe, *saru N.-wa, pl. sarwa, attested as "weapons", but cf. OE
              > searo "device", "design", "arms", "equipment".
              >
              Couldn't this be misstaken for weapon gear in a sentence?
              Are your sure it's a wa-stem? Could be like sarw and a-st.??
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.