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Re: Pietroasa and other toponyms (etymology +)

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  • dciurchea
    Hi everybody, In today Romanian, Kogaion is not used anymore, but Ceahlau; moreover the name of the mountains, the Carpatians are approaching the IE
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 29, 2006
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      Hi everybody,
      In today Romanian, Kogaion is not used anymore, but Ceahlau;
      moreover the name of the mountains, the Carpatians are approaching
      the IE root-"_kaufa" (those mountains go through the German
      territory - Austria and Germany whatsoever); perhaps there is a
      connection however through the IE substrate.


      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hails, Daweid!
      >
      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, David Kiltz <derdron@> wrote:
      > >
      > > On 29.07.2006, at 12:50, ualarauans wrote:
      > >
      > > > < IE *kouko- > PG. *xauxa- > Go. hauh-s, [...] the Alans, their
      > > > [the Goths]
      > > > loyal allies [...], keeping
      > > > till nowadays (in Ossetic) the word `xox', i.e. [kho:kh],
      > > > for "mountain"...
      > >
      > > Hi Ualarauns,
      > >
      > > you seem to suggest here, that Ossetic _xox_ be a loan from
      > Germanic,
      > > or Gothic more specifically.
      > > It seems, however, dangerous to pick out this word from Ossetic
      and
      > > disregard its immediate relatives, the other Iranian languages.
      > There
      > > we find, inter alia, OldPersian _kaufa-_ 'mountain'
      > > Avestan _kaofa_ 'ridge, bump', MiddlePersian _kôf_ NPersian
      > _kôh_.
      > > Cf. also Khotan-Sakian _kuvaa-_ (< *kaufaka-) 'mountain, hill,
      > heap'.
      > > While I'm no expert in Ossetian, I'd rather connect the Ossetian
      > word
      > > with its Iranian neighbours. We find related forms in other IE
      > > languages, too. Also with -p (Lith. _kaupas_ 'heap') and with *-b
      > > (Engl. _heap_, German _Haufe(n)). Interestingly, there are also
      > > tribal names connected with the term, cf. OldPersian
      > _Âkaufačiya_.
      > > MPers. _Kôfêč_. While (possibly) people from heights
      > and 'mountain-
      > > dwellers' are rather similar, the roots aren't identical, I
      think.
      >
      > Yes, sorry for having uttered my suggestion so inarticulately. I
      see
      > it was this Anlaut kh- which misled me to a conclusion that the
      word
      > could have experienced the Germanic consonant shift. Thank you
      very
      > much for your correction. I'm no expert in Ossetian too
      > (but wait -:)), and the dictionary I found offers no etymologies,
      > but I confess that the first thing I did was looking through it in
      > search for probable Gothic loanwords. I did find some interesting
      > words, e.g. _arm_ "arm", "hand" (cf. Go. arms), but these may
      happen
      > to be parallel IE forms, or just coincidental homophones, as it is
      > probably the case of Oss. _zaeghyn_ (-gh- is spirant, like Low
      > German g; -y- smth like schwa) "to say", past tense _zaghta_ - to
      > compare with Dutch _zeggen_, past tense _zegde_. I felt the
      > creeps... But, recalling that there was no voiced [z] in Anlaut of
      > this word in Gothic (*sagjan or *sagon), there was no i-Umlaut etc
      > etc, but there IS probably a secure Iranian etymology instead,
      > my "discovery" was terribly frustrated. I'll be more careful in
      the
      > future :)
      >
      > Ualarauans
      >
    • Francisc Czobor
      The Ossetic word xox mountain is not related rather to the Persian koh or kuh mountain ? Both Ossetic and Persian are Iranic languages. Francisc ... when
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 2 5:01 AM
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        The Ossetic word xox "mountain" is not related rather to the Persian
        koh or kuh "mountain"? Both Ossetic and Persian are Iranic languages.

        Francisc

        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@...> wrote:
        >
        > ...
        >
        > We probably stand on a safer ground when the language is concerned.
        > As I said I'm particularly interested in Gothic folk-etymology, as
        > far as we may reconstruct that. We perhaps agree that the Visigoths
        > (and their "slow brothers" Gepides) entering Dacia and living there
        > for about a century or more could not escape contacts with the
        > native (post-?)Dacian population and its religious beliefs. So,
        when
        > hearing the word Kogaion, which (a wild guess) could be related to
        > Cauco-(c)ensii and < IE *kouko- > PG. *xauxa- > Go. hauh-s,
        couldn't
        > they produce smth like *Hauhaio F. -on (formally after attested
        > armaio), to give it some sense in their speech? And the Alans,
        their
        > loyal allies (remember the cavalry of Safrac at Adrianople),
        keeping
        > till nowadays (in Ossetic) the word `xox', i.e. [kho:kh],
        > for "mountain"...
        >
        > Ualarauans
        >
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