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Re: Gepanta - *gabideis ??

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  • llama_nom
    Gepidae (Jordanes chapters 33, 73-74, 94-97, 99, 100, 113, 133). Go. *Gibidans, masculine an-stem pl. (OE Gifðas, Gefðas). Could the original meaning have
    Message 1 of 26 , Apr 1, 2006
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      Gepidae (Jordanes chapters 33, 73-74, 94-97, 99, 100, 113, 133).
      Go. *Gibidans, masculine an-stem pl. (OE Gifðas, Gefðas).

      Could the original meaning have been `the fortunate ones'? cf. OE
      gifeðe `granted (by fate); fate, chance'; and the tribal name of one
      group of Vandals, the Silingi = *Selingos?, perhaps related to Go.
      sels "good", OE sælig, OIc. sæll "fortunate". Maybe the insulting
      meaning "slow" applied to the Gepids could be exaplained as a
      euphemistic development parallel to English 'silly'
      formerly "simple/innocent", before that "blessed" and "fortunate".

      Just a wild guess.


      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hails Thiudans.
      >
      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > More on Gepanta - Gepid:
      > >
      > > Cleasby/Vigfusson have an entry:
      > >
      > > "GAUFA, að, (and gauf, n., gaufari, a, in.), to saunter, be
      > sluggish, freq. akin to gafi, cp. Goth, gepanta in a reference by
      > Jornandes -- iiam lingua eoruin 'pigra' gepanta dicitur, whence '
      > Gcpidi, ' the name of an ancient Teut. people."
      > >
      > > Gaufa in OIc. should have shown Go. *gaupan - gaupanda. Or? The
      > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the first
      > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.
      >
      > > Any other explanations for the Gepids' name?
      >
      > Later scholar (Jon Helgason, for example) reconstruct the norse
      form
      > as *gefdar or *gefdir (if an i-stem), citing OE, etc.. Now, on the
      > surface at least, this seems more realistic to me. The name seems
      > probable, at least to me, as from what we know about germanic folk
      > in general from these times, they placed high value on generosity
      > and nobility, praising high ranking folk for being generous and
      mild
      > with food, gifts (weapons, jewelry, etc.). Whether right or wrong,
      > *gefdar or *gefdir would seem a culturally appropriate name.
      >
      > One issue which puzzles me is the reconstruction of the goths'
      name
      > for their own tongue, *gutiska. On the face of it, this adjectival
      > form would seem inappropriate when compared with other germanic
      > tongues, where a fem. on-stem is prefered (nominal). Would not the
      > form *gutisko (oblique -on) make more sense?
      >
      > Regards,
      > Konrad
      >
      > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@a... wrote:
      > > >
      > > > jdm31-@... wrote:
      > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?
      start=785
      > > > >
      > > > > Gepanta (gepantus?) is obviously later Latin.
      > > > > Cannot find it in my Latin-Swedish dictionary.
      > > > > Am contacting an expert in the field to see
      > > > > what he comes up with.
      > > >
      > > > It occurs in the Getica, which is supposed to have been
      > > published in551 AD, so yes, it is late. Furthermore, it isn't
      > Latin, it's a supposedly Gothic word quoted in a Latin text.
      > Therefore it is not surprising if you cannot find it.
      > > >
      > > > -Ïusteinus
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • thiudans
      Hails! This OE reference is very good in its alluding to fate. When rebuilding this word I had only thought of Gabid- as Given , which seems too unbound and
      Message 2 of 26 , Apr 2, 2006
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        Hails!

        This OE reference is very good in its alluding to fate. When
        rebuilding this word I had only thought of Gabid- as "Given", which
        seems too unbound and meaningless and is furthermore wrong of me,
        since I had thought only of the verb derivation (i.e. from giban), not
        the noun derivation (i.e. from giba or, as here, ? *gab(j)-), which in
        pp. would mean "gifted" (having been gifted or provided with or made
        into a gift). But this holy meaning is really more believable. Still
        the oldest Greek and Roman spellings, which are I grant infamously
        shaky, would give us something like /gE:pajdes/ or /gepantas/...

        cf.
        > > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the first
        > > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.

        -Matthew

        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Gepidae (Jordanes chapters 33, 73-74, 94-97, 99, 100, 113, 133).
        > Go. *Gibidans, masculine an-stem pl. (OE Gifðas, Gefðas).
        >
        > Could the original meaning have been `the fortunate ones'? cf. OE
        > gifeðe `granted (by fate); fate, chance'; and the tribal name of one
        > group of Vandals, the Silingi = *Selingos?, perhaps related to Go.
        > sels "good", OE sælig, OIc. sæll "fortunate". Maybe the insulting
        > meaning "slow" applied to the Gepids could be exaplained as a
        > euphemistic development parallel to English 'silly'
        > formerly "simple/innocent", before that "blessed" and "fortunate".
        >
        > Just a wild guess.
        >
        >
        > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Hails Thiudans.
        > >
        > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > More on Gepanta - Gepid:
        > > >
        > > > Cleasby/Vigfusson have an entry:
        > > >
        > > > "GAUFA, að, (and gauf, n., gaufari, a, in.), to saunter, be
        > > sluggish, freq. akin to gafi, cp. Goth, gepanta in a reference by
        > > Jornandes -- iiam lingua eoruin 'pigra' gepanta dicitur, whence '
        > > Gcpidi, ' the name of an ancient Teut. people."
        > > >
        > > > Gaufa in OIc. should have shown Go. *gaupan - gaupanda. Or? The
        > > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the first
        > > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.
        > >
        > > > Any other explanations for the Gepids' name?
        > >
        > > Later scholar (Jon Helgason, for example) reconstruct the norse
        > form
        > > as *gefdar or *gefdir (if an i-stem), citing OE, etc.. Now, on the
        > > surface at least, this seems more realistic to me. The name seems
        > > probable, at least to me, as from what we know about germanic folk
        > > in general from these times, they placed high value on generosity
        > > and nobility, praising high ranking folk for being generous and
        > mild
        > > with food, gifts (weapons, jewelry, etc.). Whether right or wrong,
        > > *gefdar or *gefdir would seem a culturally appropriate name.
        > >
        > > One issue which puzzles me is the reconstruction of the goths'
        > name
        > > for their own tongue, *gutiska. On the face of it, this adjectival
        > > form would seem inappropriate when compared with other germanic
        > > tongues, where a fem. on-stem is prefered (nominal). Would not the
        > > form *gutisko (oblique -on) make more sense?
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > > Konrad
        > >
        > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@a... wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > jdm31-@... wrote:
        > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?
        > start=785
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Gepanta (gepantus?) is obviously later Latin.
        > > > > > Cannot find it in my Latin-Swedish dictionary.
        > > > > > Am contacting an expert in the field to see
        > > > > > what he comes up with.
        > > > >
        > > > > It occurs in the Getica, which is supposed to have been
        > > > published in551 AD, so yes, it is late. Furthermore, it isn't
        > > Latin, it's a supposedly Gothic word quoted in a Latin text.
        > > Therefore it is not surprising if you cannot find it.
        > > > >
        > > > > -Ïusteinus
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • llama_nom
        Hails jah þu! Waistu hvan ioticism , þatist kreka inmaideins [e] [i], dugann? Mahtu ist þatei gairmanisk [i] meliþ wesi her krekamma staba etin?
        Message 3 of 26 , Apr 3, 2006
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          Hails jah þu!

          Waistu hvan 'ioticism', þatist kreka inmaideins [e] > [i], dugann?
          Mahtu ist þatei gairmanisk [i] meliþ wesi her krekamma staba etin?
          D'Alquen gamelida þatei, bi Sturtevanta, eta stafs ju bi j.f. 400
          swe [i] skeirjan skulds ist (Gothic ai and au, m. 43). Iþ bi
          Marchanda eta [e] taiknida in mela Wulfilins (The Sounds and
          Phonemes of Wulfilas Gothic, m. 28). Þata ragin ana waurdam us
          krekon in armeniskon laihvanaim gasuliþ ist. Raþjons þozei is gaf
          sind:

          kr. eta = arm. e 25 sinþam, ê 3 sinþam, i 6 sinþam.

          Do you know when ioticism of eta, [e] > [i], began? Could it be
          that a Germanic [i] would be written here with the Greek letter
          eta? D'Alquen wrote that, according to Sturtevant, the letter eta
          is to be interpreted as [i] already by CE 400. But according to
          Marchand, eta signified [e] in the time of Wulfila. This opinion is
          based on words loaned from Greek into Armenian. The figure he gives
          are:

          Gk. eta = Arm. e 25 times, ê 3 times, i 6 times.

          Gaþ-þan-laubja þatei krek <ai> ju samana draus miþ aipsilaun. Niba
          nu so brukida laudi her ist <aï>, ni gawenja þatei waurd gutiskata
          twihliuþ þar habaidedi. Aþþan managa sind þoei ik ni wait. Ni
          fraþja duhve skuld sijai raihtis her lateinisk <i> bigitan, iþ
          krekata <ai> in namo Gepidae : GHPAIDES. Aufto namo gafrisahtiþ ist
          afar taujawaurda lasiwamma þridjins hiuhmins. Iþ so lateinisko
          laudi mais þugkeiþ swe taujawaurda lasiwamma frumins hiuhmins.

          Now, I think that Greek <ai> had fallen together with epsilon. So
          unless <aï> is the form used here, I don't suppose the Gothic word
          would have have a diphthong there. But there's a lot I don't know.
          I don't understand why Latin <i> should be found here, but Greek
          <ai>. Maybe the name is formed from a weak verb of the 3rd class?
          But the Latin form seems more like a weak verb of the 1st group.

          Nauh þagkjands
          (still thinking...),

          Llama Nom




          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hails!
          >
          > This OE reference is very good in its alluding to fate. When
          > rebuilding this word I had only thought of Gabid- as "Given", which
          > seems too unbound and meaningless and is furthermore wrong of me,
          > since I had thought only of the verb derivation (i.e. from giban),
          not
          > the noun derivation (i.e. from giba or, as here, ? *gab(j)-),
          which in
          > pp. would mean "gifted" (having been gifted or provided with or
          made
          > into a gift). But this holy meaning is really more believable.
          Still
          > the oldest Greek and Roman spellings, which are I grant infamously
          > shaky, would give us something like /gE:pajdes/ or /gepantas/...
          >
          > cf.
          > > > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the
          first
          > > > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.
          >
          > -Matthew
          >
          > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Gepidae (Jordanes chapters 33, 73-74, 94-97, 99, 100, 113, 133).
          > > Go. *Gibidans, masculine an-stem pl. (OE Gifðas, Gefðas).
          > >
          > > Could the original meaning have been `the fortunate ones'? cf.
          OE
          > > gifeðe `granted (by fate); fate, chance'; and the tribal name of
          one
          > > group of Vandals, the Silingi = *Selingos?, perhaps related to
          Go.
          > > sels "good", OE sælig, OIc. sæll "fortunate". Maybe the
          insulting
          > > meaning "slow" applied to the Gepids could be exaplained as a
          > > euphemistic development parallel to English 'silly'
          > > formerly "simple/innocent", before that "blessed"
          and "fortunate".
          > >
          > > Just a wild guess.
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hails Thiudans.
          > > >
          > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...>
          wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > More on Gepanta - Gepid:
          > > > >
          > > > > Cleasby/Vigfusson have an entry:
          > > > >
          > > > > "GAUFA, að, (and gauf, n., gaufari, a, in.), to saunter, be
          > > > sluggish, freq. akin to gafi, cp. Goth, gepanta in a reference
          by
          > > > Jornandes -- iiam lingua eoruin 'pigra' gepanta dicitur,
          whence '
          > > > Gcpidi, ' the name of an ancient Teut. people."
          > > > >
          > > > > Gaufa in OIc. should have shown Go. *gaupan - gaupanda. Or?
          The
          > > > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the
          first
          > > > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.
          > > >
          > > > > Any other explanations for the Gepids' name?
          > > >
          > > > Later scholar (Jon Helgason, for example) reconstruct the
          norse
          > > form
          > > > as *gefdar or *gefdir (if an i-stem), citing OE, etc.. Now, on
          the
          > > > surface at least, this seems more realistic to me. The name
          seems
          > > > probable, at least to me, as from what we know about germanic
          folk
          > > > in general from these times, they placed high value on
          generosity
          > > > and nobility, praising high ranking folk for being generous
          and
          > > mild
          > > > with food, gifts (weapons, jewelry, etc.). Whether right or
          wrong,
          > > > *gefdar or *gefdir would seem a culturally appropriate name.
          > > >
          > > > One issue which puzzles me is the reconstruction of the goths'
          > > name
          > > > for their own tongue, *gutiska. On the face of it, this
          adjectival
          > > > form would seem inappropriate when compared with other
          germanic
          > > > tongues, where a fem. on-stem is prefered (nominal). Would not
          the
          > > > form *gutisko (oblique -on) make more sense?
          > > >
          > > > Regards,
          > > > Konrad
          > > >
          > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@a... wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > jdm31-@... wrote:
          > > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?
          > > start=785
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Gepanta (gepantus?) is obviously later Latin.
          > > > > > > Cannot find it in my Latin-Swedish dictionary.
          > > > > > > Am contacting an expert in the field to see
          > > > > > > what he comes up with.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > It occurs in the Getica, which is supposed to have
          been
          > > > > published in551 AD, so yes, it is late. Furthermore, it
          isn't
          > > > Latin, it's a supposedly Gothic word quoted in a Latin text.
          > > > Therefore it is not surprising if you cannot find it.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > -Ïusteinus
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • thiudans
          I think those sound laws could work here. Can we propose a tribal name? *Giband-? *Gib(a)id-? Or the vowel might be explained as from the gradation Geb-? Or
          Message 4 of 26 , Apr 10, 2006
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            I think those sound laws could work here.

            Can we propose a tribal name? *Giband-? *Gib(a)id-?
            Or the vowel might be explained as from the gradation Geb-?
            Or for an off the wall proposal, *Gabeidj- "Forceful ones"


            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hails jah þu!
            >
            > Waistu hvan 'ioticism', þatist kreka inmaideins [e] > [i], dugann?
            > Mahtu ist þatei gairmanisk [i] meliþ wesi her krekamma staba etin?
            > D'Alquen gamelida þatei, bi Sturtevanta, eta stafs ju bi j.f. 400
            > swe [i] skeirjan skulds ist (Gothic ai and au, m. 43). Iþ bi
            > Marchanda eta [e] taiknida in mela Wulfilins (The Sounds and
            > Phonemes of Wulfilas Gothic, m. 28). Þata ragin ana waurdam us
            > krekon in armeniskon laihvanaim gasuliþ ist. Raþjons þozei is gaf
            > sind:
            >
            > kr. eta = arm. e 25 sinþam, ê 3 sinþam, i 6 sinþam.
            >
            > Do you know when ioticism of eta, [e] > [i], began? Could it be
            > that a Germanic [i] would be written here with the Greek letter
            > eta? D'Alquen wrote that, according to Sturtevant, the letter eta
            > is to be interpreted as [i] already by CE 400. But according to
            > Marchand, eta signified [e] in the time of Wulfila. This opinion is
            > based on words loaned from Greek into Armenian. The figure he gives
            > are:
            >
            > Gk. eta = Arm. e 25 times, ê 3 times, i 6 times.
            >
            > Gaþ-þan-laubja þatei krek <ai> ju samana draus miþ aipsilaun. Niba
            > nu so brukida laudi her ist <aï>, ni gawenja þatei waurd gutiskata
            > twihliuþ þar habaidedi. Aþþan managa sind þoei ik ni wait. Ni
            > fraþja duhve skuld sijai raihtis her lateinisk <i> bigitan, iþ
            > krekata <ai> in namo Gepidae : GHPAIDES. Aufto namo gafrisahtiþ ist
            > afar taujawaurda lasiwamma þridjins hiuhmins. Iþ so lateinisko
            > laudi mais þugkeiþ swe taujawaurda lasiwamma frumins hiuhmins.
            >
            > Now, I think that Greek <ai> had fallen together with epsilon. So
            > unless <aï> is the form used here, I don't suppose the Gothic word
            > would have have a diphthong there. But there's a lot I don't know.
            > I don't understand why Latin <i> should be found here, but Greek
            > <ai>. Maybe the name is formed from a weak verb of the 3rd class?
            > But the Latin form seems more like a weak verb of the 1st group.
            >
            > Nauh þagkjands
            > (still thinking...),
            >
            > Llama Nom
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hails!
            > >
            > > This OE reference is very good in its alluding to fate. When
            > > rebuilding this word I had only thought of Gabid- as "Given", which
            > > seems too unbound and meaningless and is furthermore wrong of me,
            > > since I had thought only of the verb derivation (i.e. from giban),
            > not
            > > the noun derivation (i.e. from giba or, as here, ? *gab(j)-),
            > which in
            > > pp. would mean "gifted" (having been gifted or provided with or
            > made
            > > into a gift). But this holy meaning is really more believable.
            > Still
            > > the oldest Greek and Roman spellings, which are I grant infamously
            > > shaky, would give us something like /gE:pajdes/ or /gepantas/...
            > >
            > > cf.
            > > > > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the
            > first
            > > > > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.
            > >
            > > -Matthew
            > >
            > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Gepidae (Jordanes chapters 33, 73-74, 94-97, 99, 100, 113, 133).
            > > > Go. *Gibidans, masculine an-stem pl. (OE Gifðas, Gefðas).
            > > >
            > > > Could the original meaning have been `the fortunate ones'? cf.
            > OE
            > > > gifeðe `granted (by fate); fate, chance'; and the tribal name of
            > one
            > > > group of Vandals, the Silingi = *Selingos?, perhaps related to
            > Go.
            > > > sels "good", OE sælig, OIc. sæll "fortunate". Maybe the
            > insulting
            > > > meaning "slow" applied to the Gepids could be exaplained as a
            > > > euphemistic development parallel to English 'silly'
            > > > formerly "simple/innocent", before that "blessed"
            > and "fortunate".
            > > >
            > > > Just a wild guess.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hails Thiudans.
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > More on Gepanta - Gepid:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Cleasby/Vigfusson have an entry:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > "GAUFA, að, (and gauf, n., gaufari, a, in.), to saunter, be
            > > > > sluggish, freq. akin to gafi, cp. Goth, gepanta in a reference
            > by
            > > > > Jornandes -- iiam lingua eoruin 'pigra' gepanta dicitur,
            > whence '
            > > > > Gcpidi, ' the name of an ancient Teut. people."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Gaufa in OIc. should have shown Go. *gaupan - gaupanda. Or?
            > The
            > > > > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the
            > first
            > > > > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.
            > > > >
            > > > > > Any other explanations for the Gepids' name?
            > > > >
            > > > > Later scholar (Jon Helgason, for example) reconstruct the
            > norse
            > > > form
            > > > > as *gefdar or *gefdir (if an i-stem), citing OE, etc.. Now, on
            > the
            > > > > surface at least, this seems more realistic to me. The name
            > seems
            > > > > probable, at least to me, as from what we know about germanic
            > folk
            > > > > in general from these times, they placed high value on
            > generosity
            > > > > and nobility, praising high ranking folk for being generous
            > and
            > > > mild
            > > > > with food, gifts (weapons, jewelry, etc.). Whether right or
            > wrong,
            > > > > *gefdar or *gefdir would seem a culturally appropriate name.
            > > > >
            > > > > One issue which puzzles me is the reconstruction of the goths'
            > > > name
            > > > > for their own tongue, *gutiska. On the face of it, this
            > adjectival
            > > > > form would seem inappropriate when compared with other
            > germanic
            > > > > tongues, where a fem. on-stem is prefered (nominal). Would not
            > the
            > > > > form *gutisko (oblique -on) make more sense?
            > > > >
            > > > > Regards,
            > > > > Konrad
            > > > >
            > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, jdm314@a... wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > jdm31-@... wrote:
            > > > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?
            > > > start=785
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Gepanta (gepantus?) is obviously later Latin.
            > > > > > > > Cannot find it in my Latin-Swedish dictionary.
            > > > > > > > Am contacting an expert in the field to see
            > > > > > > > what he comes up with.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > It occurs in the Getica, which is supposed to have
            > been
            > > > > > published in551 AD, so yes, it is late. Furthermore, it
            > isn't
            > > > > Latin, it's a supposedly Gothic word quoted in a Latin text.
            > > > > Therefore it is not surprising if you cannot find it.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > -Ïusteinus
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • llama_nom
            Following on from these threads... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/8784 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/8810 ...I came
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 3, 2008
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              Following on from these threads...

              http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/8784
              http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/message/8810

              ...I came across another hypothesis from Kemp Malone.

              Kemp Malone (1933). `The suffix of appurtenance in "Widsith"' The
              Modern Language Review 28:3, pp. 315-325. [
              http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-7937%28193307%2928%3A3%3C315%3ATSOAI%22%3E2.0.CO%3B2-P
              ].

              He cites the following forms attested in Latin and Greek:

              Gibedae, Gibedi, Gibites, Gibidi.
              Gipidae, Gipides, Gipedes, Gippidos, Gippedi.
              Gepidae (Gepidas), Gepidi, Gebidae (Gebidas), Gebidi, Gebedi, Gebeti.
              Gebodi.
              GHPAIDES (Greek)

              (There's also Gypidas, Gyppidos and Gibidos manuscripts of the 'Origo
              gentis Langobardorum'. Grimm notes that the Greek forms are
              assimilated to the Greek word PAIS, thus: GHPAIDES, GHPAIDWN, GHPAISI,
              GHPAIS. And regarding the possibility that eta stands for East
              Germanic [i], compare Priscus's spelling ATTELA, and the discussion in
              one of those earlier threads about the raising of eta from Classical
              Greek [E:] to [i].)

              The name of the people is attested twice in an early Germanic
              language, namely Old English, each time in the dative plural: Gefðum
              (Wídsíþ), Gifðum (Béowulf).

              Malone's iggestion is that the name was formed from a Germanic root
              'gaim', 'gîm', 'gim' found in Icelandic 'geimi' "sea" (Modern
              Icelandic 'geimur' "big empty space; outer space") and 'gíma' "wide
              opening; strip of clear sky". He points to place-names with the suffix
              -and, such as Agand (whose inhabitants were the Old Norse 'Egðir') and
              Verand (whence Old Norse 'Virðar'). He proseses that the 'm' of the
              root was changed to 'f' to dissimilate it from the following nasal of
              'and'--compare Old English 'heofon' : Old Norse 'himinn', Gothic
              'himins'--and that the name of the people was formed from the root by
              replacing the regional suffix 'and' with an ethnic suffix (suffix of
              appurtenance) which consisted of a dental consonant-stem. This suffix
              is attested in the names of several tribes and contains one of the
              Proto-Germanic short unstressed vowels 'a', 'i', 'u' or no vowel at
              all, the nil-grade.

              Malone argues that the region and tribe took their name from a word
              for "bay", a wide opening of water, this being a reference to their
              old homeland: "No better example of a bay wide open on the seaward
              side could be found that the 'Danziger Bucht', on the shores of which
              the Gibids had their home."

              The variation in the root vowel in the Old English forms could be
              explained by paradogmatic levelling ('i' and 'e' each being
              appropriate to different parts of the consonant-stem paradigm), or to
              later (West Saxon) palatal mutation by the preceding 'g' = [j]. Malone
              doubts that the variation between 'e' and 'i' in the Latin and Greek
              forms is significant to the East Germanic pronunciation. He
              reconstructs *Gibid- for the people and *Geband for the region. He
              explains the form Gebodi as containing the 'u' grade of the suffixal
              vowel. The Old English forms have an un-Vernerised /þ/ rather than
              /d/, as is appropriate to a form with the nil-grade (with the stress
              on the root).

              Malone also discusses Jordanes etymology 'gepanta', which he takes to
              be a punning term of abuse, a folk etymology: "We are told by Jordanes
              himself that 'gepanta' "pigra" is a Gibidic word. And its 'e' for 'i'
              and 't' for 'd' would have been enough to show that it has no place in
              the Gothic of Wulfila." He suggests that the 't' could have come from
              devoicing of 'd' before the 's' of the nominative masculine singular
              in the strong form of the present participle, *gepand + s = *gepants,
              the resulting 't' then having spread by analogy to the rest of the
              paradigm. He keeps an open mind about the gender of the word, but
              notes that if it had been a specifically feminine form, this would
              have "added greatly to the 'convicium'" (slander) for Goths applying
              the term to Gepid men.

              LN
            • llama_nom
              ... http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-7937%28193307%2928%3A3%3C315%3ATSOAI%22%3E2.0.CO%3B2-P ... He also has a theory about the other name for Gepedoios
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 3, 2008
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                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
                >[...]
                >
                > Kemp Malone (1933). `The suffix of appurtenance in "Widsith"' The
                > Modern Language Review 28:3, pp. 315-325. [
                >
                http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-7937%28193307%2928%3A3%3C315%3ATSOAI%22%3E2.0.CO%3B2-P
                > ].

                He also has a theory about the other name for Gepedoios "the islands
                of the Gepids" (Biblical Gothic *Gibidaujos) given by Jordanes: Spesis
                provincia. 'Spesis', he suggests, could be a Latin genitive singular
                of an East Germanic i-stem adjective *'spêþs' > *'spêss' "late,
                tardy", "with assimilation as in English 'bliss' < 'bliþs'. One may
                conjecture that such an assimilation was characteristic and that the
                Goths upstream took advantage of the peculiarity to coin a jocular
                name for the land of the Gibids, some such name as *'Spêss-fera'. Here
                of course there would be a double-entendre highly satisfying to the
                Gothic sense of humour, for *'Spêss-fera' could be taken to mean at
                the same time (1) a region where everyone said 'spêss' for 'spêþs',
                and (2) a region where everyone was habitually late."
              • llama_nom
                Kemp Malone has a theory about this one too in the same article! He connects it to a name which occurs in the Old English poem Widsith: Mid Moidum ic wæs ond
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 3, 2008
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                  Kemp Malone has a theory about this one too in the same article! He
                  connects it to a name which occurs in the Old English poem Widsith:

                  Mid Moidum ic wæs ond mid Persum . ond mid Myrgingum,
                  ond Mofdingum . ond ongend Myrgingum,

                  He proposes that 'ond Mofdingum' is a corruption of 'ond mid
                  Ofdingum', and that the Ofdingas were synonymous with the Goths, being
                  the descendents of Ovida. He derives Old English 'Ofd-' from an
                  alternative form of the name with a different ablaut grade: *Ovada,
                  which is actually attested as the name of a Vandal, Obadus. Malone
                  also notes the suffix -ada in Nidada. So perhaps I was overhasty in
                  equating this last with OE Níðhád, ON Níðuðr. Still, I don't think
                  medial -d- in Latin spellings of Gothic names necessarily rules out
                  Gothic -þ- (compare the names with Adel- besides Athal(a)- for Go.
                  *aþal(a)-, and so on).

                  Malone continues:

                  "The 'Ofd' of this name goes back to a base 'ôf' (Go. ôb) and the
                  a-variety of the full grade of the suffix of appurtenance. The base
                  'ôb' also appears in German 'üben' and related words; note especially
                  OHG 'uobo' "tiller (of the soil)". The name Ovida seems to mean
                  "worker, a man who accomplishes things", much as Fastida means
                  "keeper, a man who maintains things"."

                  OE 'ôfa' isn't attested as a common noun, but does appear occasionally
                  as a personal name. But the quantity of the vowel isn't certain, "and
                  a wholly different etymology [...] is therefore possible, for which
                  see Redin, p. 101 f." Unfortunately he doesn't hint at what this
                  etymology might be, and the website where I'm reading it seems to have
                  omitted the bibliography...

                  Kemp Malone (1933). `The suffix of appurtenance in "Widsith"' The
                  Modern Language Review 28:3, pp. 315-325 [
                  http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-7937%28193307%2928%3A3%3C315%3ATSOAI%22%3E\
                  2.0.CO%3B2-P ].
                • llama_nom
                  ... http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-7937%28193307%2928%3A3%3C315%3ATSOAI%22%3E2.0.CO%3B2-P ... Sorry about the multiple posts, I just keep finding more
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 3, 2008
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                    > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
                    > >[...]
                    > >
                    > > Kemp Malone (1933). `The suffix of appurtenance in "Widsith"' The
                    > > Modern Language Review 28:3, pp. 315-325. [
                    > >
                    >
                    http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-7937%28193307%2928%3A3%3C315%3ATSOAI%22%3E2.0.CO%3B2-P
                    > > ].

                    Sorry about the multiple posts, I just keep finding more stuff in
                    there, just when I think I'm done... Malone also discusses the tribal
                    name that appears in Widsith in the dative as 'Hæleþum', from which
                    comes the Old English poetic synonym "man". He notes that the vowel of
                    the suffix was originally 'u' in the precursor of English, as in Old
                    Norse 'hölðar', with the development in the nominative: *haluþi >
                    *halyþi > *hæliþi > hæleþ. The root vowel of the nominative was then
                    extended by analogy to the dative, hence Hæleþum rather than *Haloþum.
                    It's also attested as a personal name declined as a masculine ôn-stem:
                    Hæleþa. But as a poetic synonym, it was still (more or less) treated
                    as a cononant stem in Old English [
                    http://www.wmich.edu/medieval/resources/IOE/inflnoun.html ].

                    Now, my question (for folks with more knowledge of the prehistory of
                    Continental West Germanic) is: can we say anything about the original
                    vowel of the suffix there? Hildebrandslied has 'helidôs', and I'd
                    always assumed that the 'i' was original, but could it too be due to
                    umlaut in unstressed position, or does it come from the Proto-Germanic
                    'i' grade after all?

                    LN
                  • llama_nom
                    Grimm s take on Gepids brings us back to the connection with giba , giban , which still seems plausible to me, especially given personal names like
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 3, 2008
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                      Grimm's take on Gepids brings us back to the connection with 'giba',
                      'giban', which still seems plausible to me, especially given personal
                      names like *Gibareiks and *Gibika. This ties in with my suggestion
                      that they were the lucky, blessed, fortunate ones (in their own
                      language), those to whom good luck (or victory) has been "given" (cf.
                      Silingi = *Selingos "the blessed people"?).

                      http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DgsDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA463&lpg=PA463&dq=gepanta+gibites&source=web&ots=oTntU0E1fs&sig=M-EI0AzEtn9k0aXcjW2gMW4KWV8&hl=en
                      http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DgsDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA464&lpg=PA463&ots=oTntU0E1fs&dq=gepanta+gibites

                      I assume the 'þ' in his reconstruction *Gibiþa is based on the rule of
                      dissimilation by which we get the alternation of voiced and unvoiced
                      consonants in a suffix depending on the voicedness of the preceding
                      consonant, e.g. 'meriþa' : 'auþida'. And that might account for the
                      't' sometimes found in classical forms. This issue came up recently
                      when we were trying to reconstruct ordinal numbers (regular *fidworþa
                      with dissimilation from the preceding voiced consonants, or analogous
                      *Fidworda without).

                      Thanks again to Google we can see the man's name Kippid that Grimm
                      mentions in context:

                      http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YfY-AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=kippid+corbeienses&source=web&ots=HxMWuj7F4m&sig=g4to1Qz0mx4FZ9Rfum6vpX8sQug&hl=en
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