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Some thoughts about endings etc.

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  • Fredrik
    The english ending -er on verbs, making them nouns in such words as bringer, lover, jumper etc. has equal endings in gothic like -areis, - ands/-andi and
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 21, 2006
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      The english ending -er on verbs, making them nouns in such words as
      bringer, lover, jumper etc. has equal endings in gothic like -areis, -
      ands/-andi and perhaps also -ja.

      Is it right that the ending -ja (masc. weak) can this meaning?
      Like garahnja from garahnjan. And is it also possible to just have
      the ending -a in some words?

      About the other endings, which is most common and which do you prefer?

      I use the ending -ands mostly, but I don't realy know how to use it.
      Should I use it as nd-stem like frijonds and nasjands, ro should I
      use em like adjectives with nd-endings?
      E.g. bringer = briggands, which could be interpreted as 'the bringing
      one' and in that case 'bringing' is an adjective.

      I also have a word question for you.

      A word for meal, which in oe was melu and comes from wgmc melwan.
      Could this have an equalent in gothic?
      Has the word melwan come from malwjan via i-umlaut?
      I saw gothic had a word for grind that was gamalwjan and began to
      think it might be so...If not. could the word have become milwan in
      gothic (and the verb might not be necessary though a similar word
      exist). But the noun meal has come from pgmc *melwa- according to
      runeberg. This make sense that oe has melu and swedish has mjöl.
      I have no idea what gender this is etc. but in gothic I think this
      word would be like milw- and if it is, let's say masc. it could be
      milws or, used as wa-stem, milus (gen. milwis). If it is neutre it
      would be milw or milu (gen. milwis). Any ideas about this???
      Maybe there already is a word for this, but I haven't found any with
      this meaning, only some with close similarity.


      What do you know about the name of swedes?
      In wikipedia it says the pgmc word could have been swihoniz or
      sweoniz. If it was swihoniz this would have been swaíhans in gothic
      and if it was sweoniz it would have been swians.
      I guess they are masc. n-stems both?
      I have seen some other suggestions in gothic such as sweos (pl.) and
      swijans...what do you think about this???

      /Fredrik
    • llama_nom
      ... as ... areis, - ... Yes, e.g. nuta fisher . ... prefer? Not sure, but I think I read somewhere that -ja is commoner than the those others. I wonder if
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 21, 2006
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        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@...> wrote:
        >
        > The english ending -er on verbs, making them nouns in such words
        as
        > bringer, lover, jumper etc. has equal endings in gothic like -
        areis, -
        > ands/-andi and perhaps also -ja.
        >
        > Is it right that the ending -ja (masc. weak) can this meaning?
        > Like garahnja from garahnjan. And is it also possible to just have
        > the ending -a in some words?


        Yes, e.g. nuta "fisher".


        >
        > About the other endings, which is most common and which do you
        prefer?


        Not sure, but I think I read somewhere that -ja is commoner than the
        those others. I wonder if that depends on whether you include -ands
        declined as an adjective as well as as an nd-stem (see next). As
        for preference, I'd look first at whether there were any parallels
        in cognate languages for that particular word or anything like it.



        > I use the ending -ands mostly, but I don't realy know how to use
        it.
        > Should I use it as nd-stem like frijonds and nasjands, ro should I
        > use em like adjectives with nd-endings?
        > E.g. bringer = briggands, which could be interpreted as 'the
        bringing
        > one' and in that case 'bringing' is an adjective.



        There is some fluctuation here, e.g. Iohannis þis daupjandins,
        Iohannen þana daupjand (Streitberg 321). But personally, if I was
        making up a new noun like this, I'd go with the nd-stem option to
        avoid confusion.



        >
        > I also have a word question for you.
        >
        > A word for meal, which in oe was melu and comes from wgmc melwan.
        > Could this have an equalent in gothic?
        > Has the word melwan come from malwjan via i-umlaut?
        > I saw gothic had a word for grind that was gamalwjan and began to
        > think it might be so...If not. could the word have become milwan
        in
        > gothic (and the verb might not be necessary though a similar word
        > exist). But the noun meal has come from pgmc *melwa- according to
        > runeberg. This make sense that oe has melu and swedish has mjöl.
        > I have no idea what gender this is etc. but in gothic I think this
        > word would be like milw- and if it is, let's say masc. it could be
        > milws or, used as wa-stem, milus (gen. milwis). If it is neutre it
        > would be milw or milu (gen. milwis). Any ideas about this???
        > Maybe there already is a word for this, but I haven't found any
        with
        > this meaning, only some with close similarity.


        Neuter wa-stem = Go. *milw. And 'meal' as in 'mealtime' = Go. mel.


        >
        > What do you know about the name of swedes?
        > In wikipedia it says the pgmc word could have been swihoniz or
        > sweoniz. If it was swihoniz this would have been swaíhans in
        gothic
        > and if it was sweoniz it would have been swians.
        > I guess they are masc. n-stems both?
        > I have seen some other suggestions in gothic such as sweos (pl.)
        and
        > swijans...what do you think about this???
        >
        > /Fredrik


        Konrad wrote something about this name a while back [
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Theudiskon/message/767 ].
      • thiudans
        ... Nuta seems to use the oldest agentive suffix *-an- which (I ve read) was probably not active in word creation during Wulfila s time, at least, not as
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 22, 2006
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          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@> wrote:
          > >
          > > The english ending -er on verbs, making them nouns in such words
          > as
          > > bringer, lover, jumper etc. has equal endings in gothic like -
          > areis, -
          > > ands/-andi and perhaps also -ja.
          > >
          > > Is it right that the ending -ja (masc. weak) can this meaning?
          > > Like garahnja from garahnjan. And is it also possible to just have
          > > the ending -a in some words?
          >
          >
          > Yes, e.g. nuta "fisher".

          Nuta seems to use the oldest agentive suffix *-an- which (I've read)
          was probably not "active" in word creation during Wulfila's time, at
          least, not as much as *-jan-, probably for the latter's greater
          distinctness from simple weak noun endings. Nuta looks like it might
          be an ablaut of *natja- "net", thus, nuta = lit. "netter". I've also
          read that *-areis (> -er, the most usable creative agentive in English
          today) was borrowed from Latin -arius, first through terms of office
          or employment concerning trades unique to or identified with Romans.
        • llama_nom
          ... read) ... at ... might ... also ... English ... office ... Romans. Then there s the ja-stem, also non-productive by Wulfila s time? hairda herd hairdeis
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 22, 2006
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            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
            >
            > Nuta seems to use the oldest agentive suffix *-an- which (I've
            read)
            > was probably not "active" in word creation during Wulfila's time,
            at
            > least, not as much as *-jan-, probably for the latter's greater
            > distinctness from simple weak noun endings. Nuta looks like it
            might
            > be an ablaut of *natja- "net", thus, nuta = lit. "netter". I've
            also
            > read that *-areis (> -er, the most usable creative agentive in
            English
            > today) was borrowed from Latin -arius, first through terms of
            office
            > or employment concerning trades unique to or identified with
            Romans.


            Then there's the ja-stem, also non-productive by Wulfila's time?

            hairda "herd"
            hairdeis "herdsman"

            I suppose even if it's not the most common overall, -ands is the
            suffix most likely to be used for neologisms in the Bible.
          • Ingemar Nordgren
            ... Hi, nuta is well fitting with Swedish not and nät and the word nota for fishing with a not is quite possible to fit into modern Swedish but is not
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 22, 2006
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              > > Yes, e.g. nuta "fisher".
              >
              > Nuta seems to use the oldest agentive suffix *-an- which (I've read)
              > was probably not "active" in word creation during Wulfila's time, at
              > least, not as much as *-jan-, probably for the latter's greater
              > distinctness from simple weak noun endings. Nuta looks like it might
              > be an ablaut of *natja- "net", thus, nuta = lit. "netter".


              Hi,

              'nuta' is well fitting with Swedish 'not' and 'nät' and the word'nota'
              for fishing with a not is quite possible to fit into modern Swedish
              but is not used as far as I know -one use 'kasta (throw) or dra (pull)
              not'. Also a net can be thrown but 'näta' is a less probable
              construction nowadays but still logical and theoretically possible.
              Hence I support it means fishing with net.

              Best
              Ingemar
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