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Re: [gothic-l] Re: Greetings

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  • David Kiltz
    ... Well, what s so equivocal about ... Oscar ? If Eros wasn t refering to Jews (which _marranos_ originally does, of course), who was he referring to ? From
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 1, 2006
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      On 01.01.2006, at 03:57, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:

      > i think we may have misunderstood what eros was tryin to point out...

      Well, what's so equivocal about
      > "We wouldn't want to have the maranos occupying our lands and
      > raping our women again"
      Oscar ?
      If Eros wasn't refering to Jews (which _marranos_ originally does, of
      course), who was he referring to ? From this
      > "but I do not know why he [Franco] had to bring the moors back to
      > our lands, I mean that's the last thing we'd wan, no?"
      it seems rather obvious. He's referring to people of north-african
      descent. 'Marranos' is a racial slur and Eros' post was not only
      strongly chauvinist but racist. (_Marrano_ meaning very much 'pig,
      swine' in modern Spanish).
      I don't think there can be a misunderstanding.

      David Kiltz
    • OSCAR HERRERA
      hey the guy just joineed the list.... he s probably unfamiliar about the protocol about the gothic list..we should give him fair variance to explain or censor
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 1, 2006
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        hey the guy just joineed the list.... he s probably unfamiliar about the protocol about the gothic list..we should give him fair variance to explain or censor him at first...we all know the rules unless somebody else explains its differentials or a perhaps their own interpretation...like i said , this guy just joined and he should be availed the same rights as a newcomer......oscar

        David Kiltz <derdron@...> wrote:
        On 01.01.2006, at 03:57, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:

        > i think we may have misunderstood what eros was tryin to point out...

        Well, what's so equivocal about
        > "We wouldn't want to have the maranos occupying our lands and
        > raping our women again"
        Oscar ?
        If Eros wasn't refering to Jews (which _marranos_ originally does, of
        course), who was he referring to ? From this
        > "but I do not know why he [Franco] had to bring the moors back to
        > our lands, I mean that's the last thing we'd wan, no?"
        it seems rather obvious. He's referring to people of north-african
        descent. 'Marranos' is a racial slur and Eros' post was not only
        strongly chauvinist but racist. (_Marrano_ meaning very much 'pig,
        swine' in modern Spanish).
        I don't think there can be a misunderstanding.

        David Kiltz


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Budelberger, Richard
        20 niv�se an CCXIV (le 9 janvier 2006 d. c.-d. c. g.), 14h03. ... De : Budelberger, Richard � : Gothic-L Envoy� : samedi 31 d�cembre 2005 02:10 Objet : Re:
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 9, 2006
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          20 nivôse an CCXIV (le 9 janvier 2006 d. c.-d. c. g.), 14h03.

          ---- Message d'origine ----
          De : Budelberger, Richard
          À : Gothic-L
          Envoyé : samedi 31 décembre 2005 02:10
          Objet : Re: [gothic-l] Re: Greetings
          >
          > « aiw swa ni /gasehvum/ » (¹) !... :

          Am I right ? :

          <news://news.franconews.org/dpteui$i5o$3@...> or
          <news://news.aioe.org/dpteui$i5o$3@...> (in French).



          > 1. /Cf/. Mc *2*, 12b.
        • llama_nom
          ... suffisante entre les signes d abréviation pour distinguer un *m* d un *n* ? Apparently not: The CODEX ARGENTEUS is written in an alphabet devised by
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 9, 2006
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            > Existe-t-il une différence
            suffisante entre les signes d'abréviation pour distinguer un *m*
            d'un *n* ?

            Apparently not:

            "The CODEX ARGENTEUS is written in an alphabet devised by Wulfila,
            though it seems quite likely that some changes have been made in the
            intervening century and a half. The Gothic alphabet has two styles,
            one (I will call it style I) using a sigma-like -sign and a nasal
            suspension for n only, and the other (I will call it style II) uses
            the Latin and suspension marks for both n and m (Fairbanks and
            Magoun). The CA is written in Style II, and it seems quite likely
            that this is a later development, probably in Ostrogothic Italy."
            [ http://www.florin.ms/aleph2.html ].

            Facsimile:

            http://www.ub.uu.se/arv/codex/faksimiledition/jpg_files/284mc2f.html
            http://www.ub.uu.se/arv/codex/faksimiledition/jpg_files/284mc2u.html

            The Wulfila Project [ http://www.wulfila.be/Corpus/Search.html ],
            based on Streitberg's edition has, as we'd expect:

            qiþandans þatei aiw swa ni gasehvun.
            LEGONTAS hOTI hOUTWS OUDEPOTE EIDOMEN

            Though other Greek versions reflect the Gothic word order more
            precisely [ http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B41C002.htm#V12 ].

            LEGONTAS hOTI OUDEPOTE hOUTWS EIDOMEN


            On the use of 'ei' and 'þatei' before direct speech, "in
            äusserlischer Nachahmung des greichischen Vorbilds" (in superficial
            imitation of the Greek original), see Streitberg 'Gotische Syntax'
            355, note 2. He dismisses the idea that the construction can be
            shown to be native to Gothic by recourse to the use of 'at' before
            direct speech in Old Norse legal texts.

            Incidentally, on the choice of tense in indirect speech, see also
            Streitberg 356. He just comments that the Gothic translation mostly
            imitates the Greek in this respect too. There are supposedly a few
            instances of apparent differences, but he points out that these are
            probably based on some variant Greek text.

            "Im allgemeinenen ist die Personalverschiebung in der indirekten
            Rede schon der Vorlage eigen. [...] In einem Fallen jedoch, glaubt
            man, habe sie der Übersetzer im Gegensatz zur Vorlage eingeführt:
            jus qiþiþ þatei wajamerjau . hUMEIS LEGETE hOTI BLASFHMEIS (J
            10,36). Aber auch Chrysostomos und die altlat. Hss. haben BLASFHMW."

            LN
          • Budelberger, Richard
            6 pluviôse an CCXIV (le 25 janvier 2006 d. c.-d. c. g.), 16h47. ... De : Llama Nom À : Gothic-L Envoyé : mercredi 28 décembre 2005 14:39 Objet : [gothic-l]
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 25, 2006
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              6 pluviôse an CCXIV (le 25 janvier 2006 d. c.-d. c. g.), 16h47.

              ---- Message d'origine ----
              De : Llama Nom
              À : Gothic-L
              Envoyé : mercredi 28 décembre 2005 14:39
              Objet : [gothic-l] Gothic recources online: Vocabulary

              > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "in_odium" <in_odium@y...> wrote:
              >
              >> Post Scriptum - Is there a larger vocabulary of gothic words on that
              >> same site? I haven't had much time to look at it thouroghly since
              >> I'm actaully doing all this stuff using a PSP since my computer
              >> broke and it loads pages so damned slow, many thanks.
              >
              >
              > http://www.oe.eclipse.co.uk/nom/linkspage.htm
              >
              > Gergard Koebler's dictionary [
              > http://www.koeblergerhard.de/publikat.html ]

              Try « <http://www.koeblergerhard.de/publikat.html> » ! :

              Gergard Koebler's dictionary <http://www.koeblergerhard.de/publikat.html>

              > has the vocabulary of the small number of Gothic texts
              > to have survived, mainly about half of the New Testament
              > and a few pages of a biblical commentary.

              « BibelNamen.pdf » :

              *Nazōrēnus** 3, bibl.-got., PN: nhd. Nazarener; ne. Nazarene;
              gr. _Ναζωργβός_; B.: Dat. Nazoreinau Mrk 14,67 CA; Vok. Sg.
              Nazorenai Mrk 1,24 CA; Nazorenu Luk 4,34 CA

              *Ναζωρηνός* !
            • g_scaff
              Greetings all, I am a lurker on this list who has been a member for almost 10 years now. I have occasionaly posted, and wanted to say hello , and that I enjoy
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 11, 2009
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                Greetings all,
                I am a lurker on this list who has been a member for almost 10 years
                now. I have occasionaly posted, and wanted to say "hello", and that I
                enjoy reading the various posts. My Gothic reading level is minimal but
                improving, currently at " sa wulfs itith thana gait".
                I do have one question; I have known several Hungarians with the
                name "Attila"; how did this name survive among the Magyars, was there
                East Germanic contact with them?
                Thank you and Happy New Year,
                Gregory Scaff
              • macmaster@riseup.net
                When did Attila become a popular Hungarian name? My impression was that it comes from quite late (18th-19th century)
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 11, 2009
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                  When did Attila become a popular Hungarian name?
                  My impression was that it comes from quite late (18th-19th century)


                  g_scaff wrote:
                  > Greetings all,
                  > I am a lurker on this list who has been a member for almost 10 years
                  > now. I have occasionaly posted, and wanted to say "hello", and that I
                  > enjoy reading the various posts. My Gothic reading level is minimal but
                  > improving, currently at " sa wulfs itith thana gait".
                  > I do have one question; I have known several Hungarians with the
                  > name "Attila"; how did this name survive among the Magyars, was there
                  > East Germanic contact with them?
                  > Thank you and Happy New Year,
                  > Gregory Scaff
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • dciurchea
                  Csaba (son of Attila) is also very popular because of the heroic argument. Remember that the Kings of Hungary and the Voyevods of Transylvania and of The
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 13, 2009
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                    Csaba (son of Attila) is also very popular because of the heroic
                    argument.
                    Remember that the Kings of Hungary and the Voyevods of Transylvania
                    and of The Romanian Prinipalities also were always elected by the
                    Diet. Moreover in the line of the kings of Hungary, such families as
                    Anjou and Luxembourg gave kings. So no dynasty -except gentry
                    privileges- may be invoked.

                    Please observe the lack of relevance of the mother tongue for the
                    gentry.


                    --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, macmaster@... wrote:
                    >
                    > When did Attila become a popular Hungarian name?
                    > My impression was that it comes from quite late (18th-19th century)
                    >
                    >
                    > g_scaff wrote:
                    > > Greetings all,
                    > > I am a lurker on this list who has been a member for almost
                    10 years
                    > > now. I have occasionaly posted, and wanted to say "hello", and
                    that I
                    > > enjoy reading the various posts. My Gothic reading level is
                    minimal but
                    > > improving, currently at " sa wulfs itith thana gait".
                    > > I do have one question; I have known several Hungarians with
                    the
                    > > name "Attila"; how did this name survive among the Magyars, was
                    there
                    > > East Germanic contact with them?
                    > > Thank you and Happy New Year,
                    > > Gregory Scaff
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • dciurchea
                    Gesta Hungarorum (~1290AD) largely mentions Attila and Csaba http://books.google.com/books?id=a72xT1YubqAC Also Chronica Hungarorum (1473) mentions them:
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 21, 2009
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                      Gesta Hungarorum (~1290AD) largely mentions Attila and Csaba

                      http://books.google.com/books?id=a72xT1YubqAC


                      Also Chronica Hungarorum (1473) mentions them:

                      http://www.caslin.sk/htdoc/diglib/chrohung/gallery.htm


                      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "dciurchea" <dciurchea@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Csaba (son of Attila) is also very popular because of the heroic
                      > argument.
                      > Remember that the Kings of Hungary and the Voyevods of
                      Transylvania
                      > and of The Romanian Prinipalities also were always elected by the
                      > Diet. Moreover in the line of the kings of Hungary, such families
                      as
                      > Anjou and Luxembourg gave kings. So no dynasty -except gentry
                      > privileges- may be invoked.
                      >
                      > Please observe the lack of relevance of the mother tongue for the
                      > gentry.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, macmaster@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > When did Attila become a popular Hungarian name?
                      > > My impression was that it comes from quite late (18th-19th
                      century)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > g_scaff wrote:
                      > > > Greetings all,
                      > > > I am a lurker on this list who has been a member for almost
                      > 10 years
                      > > > now. I have occasionaly posted, and wanted to say "hello", and
                      > that I
                      > > > enjoy reading the various posts. My Gothic reading level is
                      > minimal but
                      > > > improving, currently at " sa wulfs itith thana gait".
                      > > > I do have one question; I have known several Hungarians
                      with
                      > the
                      > > > name "Attila"; how did this name survive among the Magyars,
                      was
                      > there
                      > > > East Germanic contact with them?
                      > > > Thank you and Happy New Year,
                      > > > Gregory Scaff
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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