dative & accusative subjects
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, David Kiltz <derdron@g...> wrote:
> Germanic languages feature a certain kind of 'impersonal'
> construction with rather complex underlying linguistic structures
> (such as agentivity, focus etc.). There is a good deal of
> between the use of accusative and dative in such cases. However, itinvolvement
> doesn't seem to be arbitrary but, at least to my sensitivity as a
> native speaker of German, there are subtle differences in meaning.
> Roughly speaking, the accusative indicates a more active
> of the logical subject. Personally, although it's 'mir trÃ¤umt' inIn Modern Icelandic there's a frowned-upon tendency
> German, I'd go for an accusative as well.
(called 'þágufallssýki' "dative sickness") to use the dative with some
verbs that traditionally took an accusative subject. Especially where
there are synonyms or near synonyms that do traditionally have a
dative subject. Maybe the dative is favoured because it's the more
common oblique subject.
Interesting comment about accusative indicating a more active
involvement. Possible exception: verbs to do with suffering pain or
deprivation. In Icelandic: hunger, thirst, sickness, ticklishness,
lack, want, desire. In Gothic: hunger, thirst, care/concern.
Icelandic: mér er kald, NHG mir ist (es) kalt "I´m cold" (i.e. I feel
cold); but with a more serious affliction, Icelandic: mig
kell/kelur "I freeze, get frostbitten".
- Correction: mér er kalt.
--- In email@example.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...> wrote:
> Icelandic: mér er kald,
- Thank you for your enlightening remarks. Yes, indeed _(ge)mætan_ is
distinct from OE _metan_. My bad. The latter is clearly a derivative
of _*(ga-)môt-_ 'to find room', or directly the cognate of MoE
_moot_. _*(ga-)môt- seems to ultimately derive from PIE _*med-_ 'to
measure (for), care, look after'. Maybe, _mætan_ belongs in the same
group. There is a lengthened grade derivative Greek _mêdeô_ 'ponder,
think out, decide'. Or it's derived from _*meh1-_ with a dental
suffix, which would also explain the long vowel. Maybe, a dream was
thought to be 'measured out, apportioned' to the dreamer. This is, of
course, very speculative.
As for _draugm-_, I never was very happy with the connection to the
root _*dhreugh-_ 'deceive' etc. However, other connection don't seem
On 04.09.2005, at 15:43, llama_nom wrote:
> (ge)mætan (long æ), "to dream", impersonal with dat. or acc. of
> dreamer AND ACC. OF DREAM, e.g. swa his man-drihten gemæted
> wearþ "as his lord had dreamed". Origin of this verb unknown; no
> cognates according to the Oxford English Dictionary. Not the same
> as metan "meet" (Go. (ga)motjan). The Gothic form, if it existed,
> would be *metjan.
> *draugm- is based on an idea of Kluge, who suggested the word could
> be related to ON draugr, an undead being, and German
> Trug "deception". But there is no sign of /g/ in the attested forms.