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Re: Reconstructions of contemporary Gothic words

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  • Roman Rausch
    ... papers/755gothpaper.html]. Thanks, these links are indeed useful. So far two attempts: Looking into the Norse Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks (http://norse.
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 15, 2005
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      >For a complete list of names recorded in
      >the Gothic Bible, including many Greek placenames, see Koebler's
      >Gotisches Woerterbuch, Anhang 2 "biblisch-gotischen Namen" [
      >http://www.koeblergerhard.de/gotwbhin.html ]. If you want to try your
      >hand at reconstructions, you might want to look at this essay on the
      >declension of foreign names in Gothic [http://www.nthuleen.com/
      papers/755gothpaper.html].

      Thanks, these links are indeed useful. So far two attempts:

      Looking into the Norse 'Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks' (http://norse.
      ulver.com/ontexts/forn/hervarar.html, maybe a millenium too late, but
      still it's better than nothing) I've found there:
      _Húnar_ 'huns' (obviously strong masc.)
      Zoëga's Old Icelandic dictionary (http://www.northvegr.org/zoega/
      index002.php) gives also the alternative form _Húnir_ (m.) as well as
      the adjectives _húnskr, húnlenzkr, hýnskr_.
      According to Nancy Thuleen's quote from Gaebeler 'Völkernamen' usually
      decline like masculine i-stems, sometimes mixed with u-stems. All this
      taken together, would it be as simple as the following paradigma:
      N *Huns *Huneis
      A *Hunu *Hununs
      G *Hunáus *Hune
      D *Hunáu *Hunum
      and the adjective _*hunsks/*hunisks_? Otherwise it seems that it could
      be 'ordinary' masculine i-stem as well.

      Zoëga also gives _Dun-á_ (f.) 'the Danube'. In the 'Hervarar saga'
      this is however only attested in the compound _á Dúnheiði_. The first
      element is, as it seems, _heiðr_ (fem.) 'heath, moor'. Maybe it's
      attested somewhere else with a more clear hint on it's gender and
      ending. I also wonder whether it's connected to _duna_ 'a rushing,
      thundering noise'..
      Again according to Nancy Thuleen's article foreign place names in
      Gothic are a mix of feminine o- and i-stems. So (similar to the
      declensions of _Achaia_ and _Ruma_):
      N *Duna
      A *Duna
      G *Dunáis
      D *Dunái
      (Interestingly the Russian word for the Danube is 'Dunaj'.)
    • llama_nom
      Regarding Danube, Thomas Czarnecki proposes the Gothic form *DONAWI to account for Polish Dunaj. Die Bezeichnung dieses großen Flusses ist zu den Slawen
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 18, 2005
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        Regarding Danube, Thomas Czarnecki proposes the Gothic form *DONAWI
        to account for Polish Dunaj. "Die Bezeichnung dieses großen Flusses
        ist zu den Slawen entweder durch die Vermittlung des Balkangotischen
        (got. *Donâwi) gekommen oder sie ist eine einheimische Bildung, die
        im Osten des Gebietes des Volkes entstanden ist." [ "Gotisches im
        Wortschatz des Polischen"
        http://www.fh.ug.gda.pl/images/Czarnecki.pdf ].

        The /o:/ would be the normal development of /a:/ in Germanic,
        supposing the name came from the Celtic source for Latin Danuvius,
        Danubius. The long vowel /a:/ is present in native Gothic words
        where a nasal has been lost before /h/. I don't think that applies
        here. Is a long vowel essential to the argument I wonder? Or could
        we imagine the end of the name was identical, or assimilated, to Go.
        *awi "low lying marshy meadowland, surrounded or partly surrounded
        by water" (cognate with Icelandic ey, German Au, English i(land) <
        OE íeg)?

        Huns as a mixed u/i-stem is an interesting idea, and might account
        for the fluctuations between a- and i-stem in the other Germanic
        languages. Note though that in such names the nom. sg. end in -us
        (e.g. Iudaius "Jew", Skwþus "Scythian", barbarus "'barbarian'"). On
        the other hand, the names of peoples which follow this declension
        may all be borrowed from Latin or Greek, and based partly on the
        Latin second declension with nominative sg. -us, pl. -i. But
        wouldn't the Huns have been known to the Goths first? Naturalised
        names don't necessarily follow this declension, cf. Kreks "a Greek",
        Krekos "Greeks".

        It's been pointed out to me that many ancient tribal names follow
        the i-stem declension, at least in the plural. There was an
        interesting discussion of this at the Theudiskon group [
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Theudiskon/?yguid=203859842 ]. See
        posts 753-767.

        "Hunnish" would presumably be uncontracted in Gothic: *Húnisks.

        Hervarar saga also contains an ON name for the river Dniepr. In one
        version of the saga, 'á Danparstöðum' is the name of the district
        where the Gothic citadel Árheimar lies. In another, it is the name
        of the citadel itself, and Árheimar the name of the district. The
        form 'á Danparstöðum' could mean "on the Banks of the Dniepr", or
        the second element could be "steads", as in Atlakviða, stanza 5 'ok
        staði Danpar' (which has obvious echoes of Hlöðskviða in Hervarar
        saga). Both staþ-s "bank, shore, landing place" and stad-s "place"
        are attested in Gothic. Jordanes calls the river Danaper.

        Other ancient names from Hervarar saga include Gotþjóð (=Go.
        Gutþiuda, attested in the Calender fragment), Húnaland "the land of
        the Huns", Reiðgotaland "land of the (H)reið-Goths", and Harvaða
        fjöll "the Carpathian mountains" (showing the influence of the
        Germanic consonant shift, Grimm's Law), and of course
        Myrkviðr "Mirkwood", which would give Gothic *Maírqiwidus.

        Llama Nom





        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Roman Rausch" <aranwe@m...> wrote:
        > >For a complete list of names recorded in
        > >the Gothic Bible, including many Greek placenames, see Koebler's
        > >Gotisches Woerterbuch, Anhang 2 "biblisch-gotischen Namen" [
        > >http://www.koeblergerhard.de/gotwbhin.html ]. If you want to try
        your
        > >hand at reconstructions, you might want to look at this essay on
        the
        > >declension of foreign names in Gothic [http://www.nthuleen.com/
        > papers/755gothpaper.html].
        >
        > Thanks, these links are indeed useful. So far two attempts:
        >
        > Looking into the Norse 'Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks' (http://norse.
        > ulver.com/ontexts/forn/hervarar.html, maybe a millenium too late,
        but
        > still it's better than nothing) I've found there:
        > _Húnar_ 'huns' (obviously strong masc.)
        > Zoëga's Old Icelandic dictionary (http://www.northvegr.org/zoega/
        > index002.php) gives also the alternative form _Húnir_ (m.) as well
        as
        > the adjectives _húnskr, húnlenzkr, hýnskr_.
        > According to Nancy Thuleen's quote from Gaebeler 'Völkernamen'
        usually
        > decline like masculine i-stems, sometimes mixed with u-stems. All
        this
        > taken together, would it be as simple as the following paradigma:
        > N *Huns *Huneis
        > A *Hunu *Hununs
        > G *Hunáus *Hune
        > D *Hunáu *Hunum
        > and the adjective _*hunsks/*hunisks_? Otherwise it seems that it
        could
        > be 'ordinary' masculine i-stem as well.
        >
        > Zoëga also gives _Dun-á_ (f.) 'the Danube'. In the 'Hervarar saga'
        > this is however only attested in the compound _á Dúnheiði_. The
        first
        > element is, as it seems, _heiðr_ (fem.) 'heath, moor'. Maybe it's
        > attested somewhere else with a more clear hint on it's gender and
        > ending. I also wonder whether it's connected to _duna_ 'a rushing,
        > thundering noise'..
        > Again according to Nancy Thuleen's article foreign place names in
        > Gothic are a mix of feminine o- and i-stems. So (similar to the
        > declensions of _Achaia_ and _Ruma_):
        > N *Duna
        > A *Duna
        > G *Dunáis
        > D *Dunái
        > (Interestingly the Russian word for the Danube is 'Dunaj'.)
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