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Runes

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  • Сергей Черныш
    ... Hello I would like to draw your attention to limestone slab with runic inscription (http://mogilnik.narod.ru/Stella.htm). It was found by South-Bosporian
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 27, 2005
      :think: There was a problem with link (http://mogilnik.narod.ru/Stella.htm). But now it is fixed.
      Hello
      I would like to draw your attention to limestone slab with runic inscription
      (http://mogilnik.narod.ru/Stella.htm). It was found by South-Bosporian
      expedition of the Crimean branch of Institute of archaeology National Academy of
      Science of Ukraine on mountain Opuk in Kerch region - Crimea (look at the map). Here
      ancient authors mentioned the city of Kimmerik. In 4 AD on mountain the citadel
      has been constructed when Uzunlar wall becomes a border between Chersonese and
      Bosporus. The Citadel survived up to 6 century AD.
      The size of a plate 0,62 � 0,49 � 0,20 m. Height of signs of 0,15 m, relief
      depth - 0,005-0,009 m (cut out was a background, so cross and signs are
      elevated).
      Publicators interpreted inscription as a herulic and descended from local pagan
      sanctuary ( VK Golenko, VJ Yurochkin, OA Sin'ko, AV Djanov - Runicheskij kamen'
      s gory Opuk i nekotoryje problemy istorii severoprichernomorskich germanzev (
      Runic stone from Opuk mountain and some questions of history of Germans on
      North coast of Black sea ) . In: Drevnosti Bospora 2. (Antiquities of Bospor)
      Their interpretation is disputable enough. Some of specialists considered
      authenticity of this find as doubtful.
      It would be interesting to know your opinion.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mike Adams
      Any idea what the word means? Using Elder Futhark or like, you can translate it, but what was the stone used for? Boundary stone or .. Mike Alaska once known
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 5 12:46 PM
        Any idea what the word means? Using Elder Futhark or like, you can
        translate it, but what was the stone used for? Boundary stone or ..

        Mike
        Alaska
        once known as Morgoth


        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, óÅÒÇÅÊ þÅÒÎÙÛ <authari@m...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > :think: There was a problem with link
        (http://mogilnik.narod.ru/Stella.htm). But now it is fixed.
        > Hello
        > I would like to draw your attention to limestone slab with runic
        inscription
        > (http://mogilnik.narod.ru/Stella.htm). It was found by
        South-Bosporian
        > expedition of the Crimean branch of Institute of archaeology
        National Academy of
        > Science of Ukraine on mountain Opuk in Kerch region - Crimea (look
        at the map). Here
        > ancient authors mentioned the city of Kimmerik. In 4 AD on mountain
        the citadel
        > has been constructed when Uzunlar wall becomes a border between
        Chersonese and
        > Bosporus. The Citadel survived up to 6 century AD.
        > The size of a plate 0,62 È 0,49 È 0,20 m. Height of signs of 0,15 m,
        relief
        > depth - 0,005-0,009 m (cut out was a background, so cross and signs
        are
        > elevated).
        > Publicators interpreted inscription as a herulic and descended from
        local pagan
        > sanctuary ( VK Golenko, VJ Yurochkin, OA Sin'ko, AV Djanov -
        Runicheskij kamen'
        > s gory Opuk i nekotoryje problemy istorii severoprichernomorskich
        germanzev (
        > Runic stone from Opuk mountain and some questions of history of
        Germans on
        > North coast of Black sea ) . In: Drevnosti Bospora 2. (Antiquities
        of Bospor)
        > Their interpretation is disputable enough. Some of specialists
        considered
        > authenticity of this find as doubtful.
        > It would be interesting to know your opinion.
        >
        >
      • llama_nom
        Thanks for the link! This would certainly be an interesting and unusual runic find, if it did prove to be genuine. There are only a very small number of
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 6 8:04 AM
          Thanks for the link! This would certainly be an interesting and
          unusual runic find, if it did prove to be genuine. There are only a
          very small number of runic inscriptions associated with East
          Germanic (the language or languages of the Goths, Vandals, Heruls,
          etc.). These have been found on small objects such as
          brooches/fibulae, a gold ring, a spindle whorl and spear heads. The
          only other monumental inscription that might be East Germanic, as
          far as I know, is the Breza pillar, containing the Futhark (runic
          alphabet). But Looijenga attributes this rather to the Langobards.

          These alleged Crimean runes are very clear, but they don't
          immediately suggest any meaning to me in terms of Gothic. The first
          letter might be a reversed Þ (spelling the initial sound in
          English "think"). The others seem to spell from left to right: PRA,
          which doesn't look at all like a Germanic word or name. Of course,
          with such a small sample of texts to go on, it would be unwise to
          dismiss it on those grounds alone. And maybe it just isn't a
          Germanic name. But you say there are other reasons to doubt the
          find?

          Could it be initials? (But I don't know of any early runic
          parallels for such a practice...) Are there Roman or Byzantine
          parallels for such a sequence of letters? There are inscriptions on
          the earliest English coins which are considered to be meaningless
          immitations of the lettering on Roman coins, added simply for
          prestige by illiterate moneyers.

          The direction of the supposed Crimean runes suggests a reading PRA,
          but taken right to left (not unprecidented) it might be ARP + Þ.
          There is a Gothic 'arbi' "inheritance", 'arbja' "heir, inheritor",
          and an abstract noun forming suffix -iþa. A Gothic cognate of Old
          Norse 'erfð' "inheritance" would look like *arbiþa. Unstressed
          vowels tend to be preserved in Busbeque's Crimean Gothic word list
          from the 16th century, but runic spelling is notoriously erratic.
          An -i- is often left out, as on the Charnay fibula, and there are
          many Scandinavian examples even from before the period when these
          vowels disappeared in spoken Norse. Supposing the /b/ wasn't
          devoiced to [p] by contact with /þ/, if the unstressed vowels did
          remain, it might be explained in the following way: Between vowels,
          Gothic /b/ is thought to have been a fricative, like Spanish
          intervocalic -b- and -v-; but after /r/ the Gothic /b/ was probably
          a stop. In Wulfila's spelling these sounds aren't distinguished,
          but it's quite possible a runic writer adopted a different
          approach. This is just a guess though, and I'm not particularly
          convinced. I'm sure it would be possible to think of other equally
          unprovable explanations. And it certainly isn't any use in deciding
          if the inscription is genuine.

          There are many confusing texts among the Scandinavian runic corpus
          which are variously interpreted as codes or magical formulas, and we
          know some of the techniques used for encrypting runes used in later
          times, in the Viking and Medieval periods. However, the few early
          inscriptions known from the East Germanic areas are all short and
          apparently simple, often consisting of a single name (Dahmsdorf,
          Kovel, Szabadbattján, Bezenye x2, Wapno), or word describing the
          object (Aquincum). There are a few other very short illegible
          inscriptions, but I believe these are illegible because the letters
          are badly preserved, not because they are necessarily mysterious.
          If the runes are legible, a surprisingly high proportion of this
          admittedly small corpus of early southern and eastern inscriptions
          does make sense.

          Of the those which are legible, I only know of three probable East
          Germanic inscritions of more than one word (Letcani & Pietroassa in
          Romania, and the Charnay fibula from Burgundy in France).

          Llama Nom




          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, óÅÒÇÅÊ þÅÒÎÙÛ <authari@m...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > :think: There was a problem with link
          (http://mogilnik.narod.ru/Stella.htm). But now it is fixed.
          > Hello
          > I would like to draw your attention to limestone slab with runic
          inscription
          > (http://mogilnik.narod.ru/Stella.htm). It was found by South-
          Bosporian
          > expedition of the Crimean branch of Institute of archaeology
          National Academy of
          > Science of Ukraine on mountain Opuk in Kerch region - Crimea (look
          at the map). Here
          > ancient authors mentioned the city of Kimmerik. In 4 AD on
          mountain the citadel
          > has been constructed when Uzunlar wall becomes a border between
          Chersonese and
          > Bosporus. The Citadel survived up to 6 century AD.
          > The size of a plate 0,62 È 0,49 È 0,20 m. Height of signs of 0,15
          m, relief
          > depth - 0,005-0,009 m (cut out was a background, so cross and
          signs are
          > elevated).
          > Publicators interpreted inscription as a herulic and descended
          from local pagan
          > sanctuary ( VK Golenko, VJ Yurochkin, OA Sin'ko, AV Djanov -
          Runicheskij kamen'
          > s gory Opuk i nekotoryje problemy istorii severoprichernomorskich
          germanzev (
          > Runic stone from Opuk mountain and some questions of history of
          Germans on
          > North coast of Black sea ) . In: Drevnosti Bospora 2. (Antiquities
          of Bospor)
          > Their interpretation is disputable enough. Some of specialists
          considered
          > authenticity of this find as doubtful.
          > It would be interesting to know your opinion.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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