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A new word

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  • Fredrik
    Hi all! I don t do much so i think about words in gothic which i cannot find in any dicctionary. Now it s the gothic word for duck. I have searched for it in
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 7, 2005
      Hi all!

      I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i cannot find
      in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I have
      searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on internet but
      without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it instead.
      I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.

      The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka') and the
      german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries (like
      runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
      I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-stem.
      The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine so therefore
      I guess the gothic word also is feminine.

      Comments please!

      /Fredrik
    • Francisc Czobor
      Hi, Fredrik, *anuds (feminine i-stem) looks OK. But it is possible also *anuþs. Francisc ... find ... therefore
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 7, 2005
        Hi, Fredrik,

        *anuds (feminine i-stem) looks OK. But it is possible also *anuþs.

        Francisc

        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all!
        >
        > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i cannot
        find
        > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I have
        > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on internet but
        > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it instead.
        > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
        >
        > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka') and the
        > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries (like
        > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
        > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-stem.
        > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine so
        therefore
        > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
        >
        > Comments please!
        >
        > /Fredrik
      • OSCAR HERRERA
        waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist... Fredrik wrote: Hi all! I don t do much so i think about words in gothic which i cannot
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 7, 2005
          waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...








          Fredrik <gadrauhts@...> wrote:


          Hi all!

          I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i cannot find
          in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I have
          searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on internet but
          without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it instead.
          I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.

          The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka') and the
          german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries (like
          runeberg.org) this comes from *anu�iz.
          I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-stem.
          The icelandic �nd and the german ente is both feminine so therefore
          I guess the gothic word also is feminine.

          Comments please!

          /Fredrik






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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ingemar Nordgren
          ... Eerrr, isn t it very close to anus ? A shocked Ingemar
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 7, 2005
            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi, Fredrik,
            >
            > *anuds (feminine i-stem) looks OK. But it is possible also *anuþs.
            >
            > Francisc

            Eerrr, isn't it very close to 'anus'?

            A shocked Ingemar
          • llama_nom
            Oscar, Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ( Not equal, but similar , to paraphrase the Skeireins...) Ahaks pigeon . Anaks suddenly . But alright for alliteration, oh
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 7, 2005
              Oscar,

              Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to paraphrase the
              Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly". But alright for
              alliteration, oh dear:

              Nu skulum namnjan
              namna fugle,
              anuþ jah ahak,
              all þatei fliugiþ,
              hrabn hrukjandan,
              hraiwadubon,
              aran swaswe agatja,
              airþabundanana hanan.
              Gauros gansuns
              goljand sik uhtwon.
              Falka sa frija
              ufar fulþon galaiþ,
              unafswaggwiþs
              sweþauh waijiþ.
              Sparwan, sparwari
              bi spedistin qiþa.


              Fredrik,

              Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages ago, before I
              had access to all these great dictionaries on the internet. I can't
              remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I didn't know about
              the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what suggests an i-
              stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic vocabulary!

              The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end of a word or
              before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as such. E.g. gods &
              goþs both occur, and by chance the former is actually more common.
              Apparently such spellings are most often found in certain specific
              sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.

              Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary, you might be
              interested in Post 1223, a very early message from Francisc which I
              came across recently. Especially the ingenious lists of chemical
              and geographical terms.

              The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary has some
              interesting comments on Gothic, including at least one probable loan-
              word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler: *brano "heifer" (young
              female cow) = OIc. brana.


              And finally, Francisc,

              Good work on the Crossword! I've added your guesses. I hope it
              isn't making anyone too cross yet...


              Llama Nom





              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@s...> wrote:
              > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi all!
              >
              > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i cannot
              find
              > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I have
              > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on internet but
              > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it instead.
              > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
              >
              > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka') and the
              > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries (like
              > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
              > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-stem.
              > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine so
              therefore
              > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
              >
              > Comments please!
              >
              > /Fredrik
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a
              blank email to .
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • llama_nom
              ... ... *anuþs. ... Ni wait ik þatei nehva þeinamma arsa sijai, Iggwimer frijond, ak nist anude ainohun nehva þamma meinamma :) Llama Nom
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 7, 2005
                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@n...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor"
                <fericzobor@y...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi, Fredrik,
                > >
                > > *anuds (feminine i-stem) looks OK. But it is possible also
                *anuþs.
                > >
                > > Francisc
                >
                > Eerrr, isn't it very close to 'anus'?
                >
                > A shocked Ingemar


                Ni wait ik þatei nehva þeinamma arsa sijai, Iggwimer frijond, ak
                nist anude ainohun nehva þamma meinamma :)

                Llama Nom
              • llama_nom
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 7, 2005
                  Correction:


                  > Nu skulum namnjan
                  > namna fugle,
                  > anuþ jah ahak,
                  > all þatei fliugiþ,
                  > hrabn hrukjandan,
                  > hraiwadubon,
                  > aran swaswe agatja,
                  > airþabundanana hanan.
                  > Gauros gansJUS
                  > goljand sik uhtwon.
                  > Falka sa frija
                  > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                  > unafswaggwiþs
                  > sweþauh waijiþ.
                  > Sparwan, sparwari
                  > bi spedistin qiþa.
                • Fredrik
                  Llama Nom I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d in plural and some cases in singular. The similarity with anus that some mentioned ain t
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 12, 2005
                    Llama Nom

                    I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d in plural and
                    some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus' that some
                    mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right that word
                    means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except the obvious
                    reason)?

                    I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting. A lot of those
                    words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                    Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I thought of.
                    I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som guess it would
                    be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know which gender). To
                    continue the same way of making the words of potato and stawberry
                    with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add the word
                    aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).

                    About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i thought of
                    faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?

                    I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non neologisms) if
                    some one is interested. I guess some are not that well done, cos I
                    made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope you can tell me
                    corrections.
                    It's on a website that is:
                    http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html



                    /Fredrik


                    --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Oscar,
                    >
                    > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to paraphrase the
                    > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly". But alright for
                    > alliteration, oh dear:
                    >
                    > Nu skulum namnjan
                    > namna fugle,
                    > anuþ jah ahak,
                    > all þatei fliugiþ,
                    > hrabn hrukjandan,
                    > hraiwadubon,
                    > aran swaswe agatja,
                    > airþabundanana hanan.
                    > Gauros gansuns
                    > goljand sik uhtwon.
                    > Falka sa frija
                    > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                    > unafswaggwiþs
                    > sweþauh waijiþ.
                    > Sparwan, sparwari
                    > bi spedistin qiþa.
                    >
                    >
                    > Fredrik,
                    >
                    > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages ago, before I
                    > had access to all these great dictionaries on the internet. I
                    can't
                    > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I didn't know about
                    > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what suggests an i-
                    > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic vocabulary!
                    >
                    > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end of a word or
                    > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as such. E.g. gods &
                    > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is actually more common.
                    > Apparently such spellings are most often found in certain specific
                    > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                    >
                    > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary, you might be
                    > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from Francisc which I
                    > came across recently. Especially the ingenious lists of chemical
                    > and geographical terms.
                    >
                    > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary has some
                    > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least one probable
                    loan-
                    > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler: *brano "heifer"
                    (young
                    > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                    >
                    >
                    > And finally, Francisc,
                    >
                    > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your guesses. I hope it
                    > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                    >
                    >
                    > Llama Nom
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@s...> wrote:
                    > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi all!
                    > >
                    > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i cannot
                    > find
                    > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I have
                    > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on internet but
                    > > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it instead.
                    > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                    > >
                    > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka') and the
                    > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries (like
                    > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                    > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-stem.
                    > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine so
                    > therefore
                    > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                    > >
                    > > Comments please!
                    > >
                    > > /Fredrik
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a
                    > blank email to .
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sigi Vandewinkel
                    Hi Fredrik, ... There is some explaining to it, though, so I could perhaps save you some time and present you with the conclusion right away: I think it should
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 13, 2005
                      Hi Fredrik,

                      I might have the answer to your question:

                      > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i thought of
                      > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?

                      There is some explaining to it, though, so I could perhaps save you
                      some time and present you with the conclusion right away: I think it
                      should be "faurasitands".

                      And now for why I think so.

                      "Faur" and "Faura" are quite similar in meaning, but there is a simple
                      feature keeping them strictly apart. "Faura" denotes the area in front
                      of an intrinsically oriented entity, and "faur" the area in front of
                      an entity that receives an orientation in context. Intrinsically
                      oriented entities are people, animals, chairs, cars, and so on, that
                      have one particular side that is their inherent front. They can be
                      looked at from various viewpoints, but the front side stays the same.
                      Contextually oriented entities are seas, roads, cardboard boxes,
                      tables, and so on: they can be assigned a different front side
                      depending on their position or the viewpoint that you're taking. (A
                      simple example: the road lying before me is what is behind the driver
                      coming from the other side.)

                      In Gothic this difference is reflected in the case required by each
                      preposition: "faura" requires the dative; "faur" the accusative.

                      1) jah standandei faura fotum is aftaro greitandei,
                      dugann natjan fotuns is tagram jah skufta haubidis seinis
                      biswarb jah kukida fotum is jah gasalboda þamma balsana
                      (Lk 7:38).
                      And standing in front of his feet she wept, and she began
                      to wash his feet with tears and dried them with the hairs
                      on her head and kissed his feet and balmed them with
                      balm.

                      The sinful woman is standing "faura" Jesus' feet (dative) because feet
                      have an intrinsic front side. In Wulfila's Bible spatial "faura" only
                      occurs with people (or metonymical expressions referring to people,
                      such as "feet").

                      2) jah galaiþ aftra faur marein, jah all manageins
                      iddjedun du imma, jah laisida ins (Mk 2:13).
                      And He went back in front of the sea (to this side of the
                      sea), and all the multitudes went towards Him, and He
                      taught them.

                      "Faur" here can be best translated as "this side of" -- compare "jah
                      galaiþ hindar marein" - He went 'behind' the sea, i.e. to the other
                      side of the sea. The sea does not have an intrinsic front: that's just
                      the side that happens to be closest to you. Incidentally, you cannot
                      tell whether "marein" is an accusative or a dative case (since they're
                      the same), but this example is perhaps clearer:

                      3) warþ þan, miþþanei nehva was is Iaireikon, blinda sums
                      sat faur wig du aihtron. (Lk 18:35).
                      It now happened that, while He was near Jericho, some
                      blind guy sat begging on this side of the road.

                      A road does not have an intrinsic front or back area: the "faur wig"
                      (accusative) happens to be that side closest to Jesus -- His side of
                      the road.

                      The abstract uses of "faura/faur" (disadvantage/advantage; because
                      of/for the sake of) show interesting correlates of this difference,
                      but I'll save that for some other post. Suffice to say that a
                      president, a chairperson, or "faurasitands" originally means: the
                      person that sits in front of a group of people to watch over the
                      meeting. People have got an intrinsic front; and, therefore, "faura"
                      should be used.

                      Tata,

                      Sigi
                    • OSCAR HERRERA
                      nist faura(before) so waurd thu sind atsailandand faur(for)...thau thu skuld brugjan in framis(in front), so alja waurd thu qitith......swaswe andhaftandand bi
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 13, 2005
                        nist faura(before) so waurd thu sind atsailandand faur(for)...thau thu skuld brugjan in framis(in front), so alja waurd thu qitith......swaswe andhaftandand bi thai aftumai dails...

                        Sigi Vandewinkel <sigivandewinkel@...> wrote:

                        Hi Fredrik,

                        I might have the answer to your question:

                        > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i thought of
                        > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?

                        There is some explaining to it, though, so I could perhaps save you
                        some time and present you with the conclusion right away: I think it
                        should be "faurasitands".

                        And now for why I think so.

                        "Faur" and "Faura" are quite similar in meaning, but there is a simple
                        feature keeping them strictly apart. "Faura" denotes the area in front
                        of an intrinsically oriented entity, and "faur" the area in front of
                        an entity that receives an orientation in context. Intrinsically
                        oriented entities are people, animals, chairs, cars, and so on, that
                        have one particular side that is their inherent front. They can be
                        looked at from various viewpoints, but the front side stays the same.
                        Contextually oriented entities are seas, roads, cardboard boxes,
                        tables, and so on: they can be assigned a different front side
                        depending on their position or the viewpoint that you're taking. (A
                        simple example: the road lying before me is what is behind the driver
                        coming from the other side.)

                        In Gothic this difference is reflected in the case required by each
                        preposition: "faura" requires the dative; "faur" the accusative.

                        1) jah standandei faura fotum is aftaro greitandei,
                        dugann natjan fotuns is tagram jah skufta haubidis seinis
                        biswarb jah kukida fotum is jah gasalboda �amma balsana
                        (Lk 7:38).
                        And standing in front of his feet she wept, and she began
                        to wash his feet with tears and dried them with the hairs
                        on her head and kissed his feet and balmed them with
                        balm.

                        The sinful woman is standing "faura" Jesus' feet (dative) because feet
                        have an intrinsic front side. In Wulfila's Bible spatial "faura" only
                        occurs with people (or metonymical expressions referring to people,
                        such as "feet").

                        2) jah galai� aftra faur marein, jah all manageins
                        iddjedun du imma, jah laisida ins (Mk 2:13).
                        And He went back in front of the sea (to this side of the
                        sea), and all the multitudes went towards Him, and He
                        taught them.

                        "Faur" here can be best translated as "this side of" -- compare "jah
                        galai� hindar marein" - He went 'behind' the sea, i.e. to the other
                        side of the sea. The sea does not have an intrinsic front: that's just
                        the side that happens to be closest to you. Incidentally, you cannot
                        tell whether "marein" is an accusative or a dative case (since they're
                        the same), but this example is perhaps clearer:

                        3) war� �an, mi��anei nehva was is Iaireikon, blinda sums
                        sat faur wig du aihtron. (Lk 18:35).
                        It now happened that, while He was near Jericho, some
                        blind guy sat begging on this side of the road.

                        A road does not have an intrinsic front or back area: the "faur wig"
                        (accusative) happens to be that side closest to Jesus -- His side of
                        the road.

                        The abstract uses of "faura/faur" (disadvantage/advantage; because
                        of/for the sake of) show interesting correlates of this difference,
                        but I'll save that for some other post. Suffice to say that a
                        president, a chairperson, or "faurasitands" originally means: the
                        person that sits in front of a group of people to watch over the
                        meeting. People have got an intrinsic front; and, therefore, "faura"
                        should be used.

                        Tata,

                        Sigi






                        You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to .
                        Yahoo! Groups Links










                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • llama_nom
                        Sijaits hailai Fredrik jas-Sigi! Do you think there might be some interchangeability though? With similar meaning, governor : faura-maþleis, but also
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 13, 2005
                          Sijaits hailai Fredrik jas-Sigi!

                          Do you think there might be some interchangeability though? With
                          similar meaning, "governor": faura-maþleis, but also faur-stasseis.
                          Also note: faura-hah, faur-hah -- both meaning curtain.

                          Looking at prefixes specifically, it seems FAURA- is in the majority
                          where the meaning is "superior" or simply "being in front of" (in
                          time of space), both in nouns and verbs. So on balence, yes I'd
                          guess *faura-sitands is more likely. Unless we
                          interpret "president" idealistically as someone who sits in
                          government "on our behalf"! ...in which case: faur-sitands? (cf.
                          faurbauhts "redemption" (literally "a buying for"). But as you say,
                          I think the etymology points more to sitting in front of, or in a
                          position superior to the meeting.

                          Apart from the meanings Sigi has mentioned, FAUR- is used with verbs
                          of motion to indicate "past" or going "by" or overtaking and
                          going "on ahead (of)", e.g. faurrinnan, faur(bi)sniwan, bi þragjan
                          faur (but exceptionally faura-qiman "come before"). Þai faur-
                          gaggandans "those passing by"; þai faura-standandans "the
                          bystanders, those standing in front of him" (and faurastandands also
                          = "one who presides, someone in authority").

                          Perhaps this is an example of contingent/contextual orientation,
                          since the direction of movement isn't intrinsic to the person moving-
                          -except in the case of time, where FAURA often = "(statically)
                          before, in advance", e.g. fauragahugjan, fauraqiþan, fauragaredan,
                          fauragamanwjan (but faurdomeins). But FAUR "ago, gone by", e.g.
                          faur fidwortaihun jera "14 years ago".

                          As prefix FAUR is also with verbs of blocking, forbidding,
                          preventing: faurbiudan, faurdammjan, faurmuljan, faurwaipjan.



                          About SAT FAUR WIG: I wondered if the choice of preposition might be
                          due to the idea of motion, or an extension of this? The blind man
                          is seen in passing by people as they go by, so the preposition
                          appropriate to passing by is used. But maybe Sigi's idea is
                          better... L 6,17 has an example where FAUR MAREIN is definitely
                          static. In English things can be situated "along the coast", e.g.
                          roads, regions; or can "move along" the coast, e.g. people, etc.
                          Similarly in (Old) Icelandic, I think the preposition með can
                          be "along" a border/coastline/edge, with or without movement.

                          Here's my ongoing list of representative examples:



                          FAUR +acc.
                          (for the sake of; moving past, overtaking, going on ahead; ago, gone
                          by; beside)

                          for the sake of.......gasaljands sik faur uns 'giving himself for
                          uns' Sk 1,a

                          beside................sat faur wig 'he sat by the wayside' Mk - 10,46

                          past, in front of.....ni bisniwam faur þans anaslepandans 'we shall
                          not go on ahead in front of those who fall asleep' - 1Thess 4,15

                          ago...................wait mannan in Xristau faur .id. jera 'I know
                          a man in Christ [who] 14 years ago...' 2Cor 12,2



                          FAURA +dat.
                          (hide/escape/save/protect from; being before in time; being in front
                          of in space)

                          from..........gafalh sik faura im 'he hid from them' - J 12,36;
                          gaþlauh faura im 'he ran away from them' - Mk 14,52; ei bairgais im
                          faura þamma unseljin `that you protect them from the evil one' - J
                          17,15

                          before........fauramaþljos þaiei weisun faura mis 'the rulers who
                          came before me' Neh 5,15

                          in front of...alla gakunnun faura imma 'all bowed down before him' -
                          1Cor 15,28


                          I guess by advantage/disadvantage you're referring to this "save
                          from" versus "do something for" distinction? I'd be very interested
                          to hear more about the theory of this, or if you have any other
                          major meanings I've missed.

                          Llama Nom






                          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Sigi Vandewinkel"
                          <sigivandewinkel@y...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Fredrik,
                          >
                          > I might have the answer to your question:
                          >
                          > > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i thought
                          of
                          > > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                          >
                          > There is some explaining to it, though, so I could perhaps save you
                          > some time and present you with the conclusion right away: I think
                          it
                          > should be "faurasitands".
                          >
                          > And now for why I think so.
                          >
                          > "Faur" and "Faura" are quite similar in meaning, but there is a
                          simple
                          > feature keeping them strictly apart. "Faura" denotes the area in
                          front
                          > of an intrinsically oriented entity, and "faur" the area in front
                          of
                          > an entity that receives an orientation in context. Intrinsically
                          > oriented entities are people, animals, chairs, cars, and so on,
                          that
                          > have one particular side that is their inherent front. They can be
                          > looked at from various viewpoints, but the front side stays the
                          same.
                          > Contextually oriented entities are seas, roads, cardboard boxes,
                          > tables, and so on: they can be assigned a different front side
                          > depending on their position or the viewpoint that you're taking. (A
                          > simple example: the road lying before me is what is behind the
                          driver
                          > coming from the other side.)
                          >
                          > In Gothic this difference is reflected in the case required by each
                          > preposition: "faura" requires the dative; "faur" the accusative.
                          >
                          > 1) jah standandei faura fotum is aftaro greitandei,
                          > dugann natjan fotuns is tagram jah skufta haubidis seinis
                          > biswarb jah kukida fotum is jah gasalboda þamma balsana
                          > (Lk 7:38).
                          > And standing in front of his feet she wept, and she began
                          > to wash his feet with tears and dried them with the hairs
                          > on her head and kissed his feet and balmed them with
                          > balm.
                          >
                          > The sinful woman is standing "faura" Jesus' feet (dative) because
                          feet
                          > have an intrinsic front side. In Wulfila's Bible spatial "faura"
                          only
                          > occurs with people (or metonymical expressions referring to people,
                          > such as "feet").
                          >
                          > 2) jah galaiþ aftra faur marein, jah all manageins
                          > iddjedun du imma, jah laisida ins (Mk 2:13).
                          > And He went back in front of the sea (to this side of the
                          > sea), and all the multitudes went towards Him, and He
                          > taught them.
                          >
                          > "Faur" here can be best translated as "this side of" --
                          compare "jah
                          > galaiþ hindar marein" - He went 'behind' the sea, i.e. to the other
                          > side of the sea. The sea does not have an intrinsic front: that's
                          just
                          > the side that happens to be closest to you. Incidentally, you
                          cannot
                          > tell whether "marein" is an accusative or a dative case (since
                          they're
                          > the same), but this example is perhaps clearer:
                          >
                          > 3) warþ þan, miþþanei nehva was is Iaireikon, blinda sums
                          > sat faur wig du aihtron. (Lk 18:35).
                          > It now happened that, while He was near Jericho, some
                          > blind guy sat begging on this side of the road.
                          >
                          > A road does not have an intrinsic front or back area: the "faur
                          wig"
                          > (accusative) happens to be that side closest to Jesus -- His side
                          of
                          > the road.
                          >
                          > The abstract uses of "faura/faur" (disadvantage/advantage; because
                          > of/for the sake of) show interesting correlates of this difference,
                          > but I'll save that for some other post. Suffice to say that a
                          > president, a chairperson, or "faurasitands" originally means: the
                          > person that sits in front of a group of people to watch over the
                          > meeting. People have got an intrinsic front; and,
                          therefore, "faura"
                          > should be used.
                          >
                          > Tata,
                          >
                          > Sigi
                        • llama_nom
                          Excellent stuff, Fredrik! I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I ll extract the approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic dictionary for
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 14, 2005
                            Excellent stuff, Fredrik!

                            I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll extract the
                            approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic dictionary for
                            you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to include his
                            creations and make a really big combined effort. I'll have a hunt
                            for possible corrections when I get more chance. One that occurs:
                            nati-staþs > natja-staþs. For "cook" or "boil" you could use
                            *siudan, which is the origin of the Gothic word sauþs "sacrifice"
                            (=ON sauðr "sheep", and sjo'ða "cook, boil"). According to Guta
                            saga, the people who share in the sacrificial feast were called
                            suþnautar "brethren of the boiling" or "comrades of the cooking".

                            The instransitive of "boil" is wulan, only attested once I think and
                            with the metaphorical sense of boiling with excitement or zeal.

                            Wairawulfs raihtis þateinei wairawulfs nahts ist, iþ dagis bi all
                            ist mannisks.

                            Llama Nom



                            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Llama Nom
                            >
                            > I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d in plural
                            and
                            > some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus' that some
                            > mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right that word
                            > means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except the obvious
                            > reason)?
                            >
                            > I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting. A lot of
                            those
                            > words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                            > Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I thought of.
                            > I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som guess it
                            would
                            > be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know which gender).
                            To
                            > continue the same way of making the words of potato and stawberry
                            > with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add the word
                            > aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).
                            >
                            > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i thought
                            of
                            > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                            >
                            > I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non neologisms) if
                            > some one is interested. I guess some are not that well done, cos I
                            > made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope you can tell
                            me
                            > corrections.
                            > It's on a website that is:
                            > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > /Fredrik
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Oscar,
                            > >
                            > > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to paraphrase
                            the
                            > > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly". But alright
                            for
                            > > alliteration, oh dear:
                            > >
                            > > Nu skulum namnjan
                            > > namna fugle,
                            > > anuþ jah ahak,
                            > > all þatei fliugiþ,
                            > > hrabn hrukjandan,
                            > > hraiwadubon,
                            > > aran swaswe agatja,
                            > > airþabundanana hanan.
                            > > Gauros gansuns
                            > > goljand sik uhtwon.
                            > > Falka sa frija
                            > > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                            > > unafswaggwiþs
                            > > sweþauh waijiþ.
                            > > Sparwan, sparwari
                            > > bi spedistin qiþa.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Fredrik,
                            > >
                            > > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages ago, before
                            I
                            > > had access to all these great dictionaries on the internet. I
                            > can't
                            > > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I didn't know
                            about
                            > > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what suggests an i-
                            > > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic vocabulary!
                            > >
                            > > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end of a word
                            or
                            > > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as such. E.g. gods
                            &
                            > > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is actually more
                            common.
                            > > Apparently such spellings are most often found in certain
                            specific
                            > > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                            > >
                            > > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary, you might be
                            > > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from Francisc
                            which I
                            > > came across recently. Especially the ingenious lists of
                            chemical
                            > > and geographical terms.
                            > >
                            > > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary has some
                            > > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least one probable
                            > loan-
                            > > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler: *brano "heifer"
                            > (young
                            > > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > And finally, Francisc,
                            > >
                            > > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your guesses. I hope it
                            > > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Llama Nom
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@s...>
                            wrote:
                            > > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Hi all!
                            > > >
                            > > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i
                            cannot
                            > > find
                            > > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I have
                            > > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on internet
                            but
                            > > > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it
                            instead.
                            > > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                            > > >
                            > > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka') and
                            the
                            > > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries
                            (like
                            > > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                            > > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-stem.
                            > > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine so
                            > > therefore
                            > > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                            > > >
                            > > > Comments please!
                            > > >
                            > > > /Fredrik
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a
                            > > blank email to .
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Grsartor@aol.com
                            Hi, Sigi, thank you for your explanation of some of the distinctions between faur and faura . There is a qualification I should like to add.about two of the
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 16, 2005
                              Hi, Sigi,

                              thank you for your explanation of some of the distinctions between "faur" and
                              "faura". There is a qualification I should like to add.about two of the given
                              examples, namely

                              warþ þan, miþþanei nehva was is Iaireikon, blinda sums
                              sat faur wig du aihtron. (Lk 18:35).
                              It now happened that, while He was near Jericho, some
                              blind guy sat begging on this side of the road.

                              and

                              jah galaiþ aftra faur marein, jah all manageins
                              iddjedun du imma, jah laisida ins (Mk 2:13).
                              And He went back in front of the sea (to this side of the
                              sea), and all the multitudes went towards Him, and He
                              taught them.

                              In both these sentences "faur" translates Greek para + accusative. Liddell
                              and Scott's Lexikon gives "beside" as its principal meaning. Now a dictionary is
                              no substitute for thorough knowledge, which I lack, but the interpretation
                              "beside" agrees with published translations. If this speculation is right then
                              it would be better in the first example above to drop the reference to a
                              particular side of the road.

                              Another meaning of "faura" is "because of":

                              jah ni magandans nehwa qiman imma faura manageim (Mark 2:4)
                              and not being able to come near him because of the crowd(s)

                              iþ biþe gabauran ist barn, ni þanaseiþs ni gaman þizos aglons faura fahedai
                              unte gabaurans warþ manna in fairhwau. (John 16:21)
                              but when the child is born she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that
                              a person has been born in the world.

                              Gerry T.


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Francisc Czobor
                              Dear Llama Nom, Of course it s OK to inlude my creations in a list Gothic neologisms, if you find them acceptable and suitable (in fact, I created them just
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 17, 2005
                                Dear Llama Nom,

                                Of course it's OK to inlude my creations in a list Gothic neologisms,
                                if you find them acceptable and suitable (in fact, I created them
                                just for myself, for fun).

                                Francisc

                                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Excellent stuff, Fredrik!
                                >
                                > I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll extract the
                                > approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic dictionary for
                                > you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to include
                                his
                                > creations and make a really big combined effort...
                              • Fredrik
                                Thanx... That seems to be a quite good idea, to collect neologisms from different persons... ... his ... obvious ... I ... before ... i- ... be ... it
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 21, 2005
                                  Thanx...

                                  That seems to be a quite good idea, to collect neologisms from
                                  different persons...


                                  --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Excellent stuff, Fredrik!
                                  >
                                  > I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll extract the
                                  > approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic dictionary for
                                  > you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to include
                                  his
                                  > creations and make a really big combined effort. >
                                  > Llama Nom
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Llama Nom
                                  > >
                                  > > I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d in plural
                                  > and
                                  > > some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus' that some
                                  > > mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right that word
                                  > > means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except the
                                  obvious
                                  > > reason)?
                                  > >
                                  > > I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting. A lot of
                                  > those
                                  > > words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                                  > > Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I thought of.
                                  > > I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som guess it
                                  > would
                                  > > be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know which gender).
                                  > To
                                  > > continue the same way of making the words of potato and stawberry
                                  > > with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add the word
                                  > > aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).
                                  > >
                                  > > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i thought
                                  > of
                                  > > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                                  > >
                                  > > I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non neologisms) if
                                  > > some one is interested. I guess some are not that well done, cos
                                  I
                                  > > made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope you can tell
                                  > me
                                  > > corrections.
                                  > > It's on a website that is:
                                  > > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > /Fredrik
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Oscar,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to paraphrase
                                  > the
                                  > > > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly". But alright
                                  > for
                                  > > > alliteration, oh dear:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Nu skulum namnjan
                                  > > > namna fugle,
                                  > > > anuþ jah ahak,
                                  > > > all þatei fliugiþ,
                                  > > > hrabn hrukjandan,
                                  > > > hraiwadubon,
                                  > > > aran swaswe agatja,
                                  > > > airþabundanana hanan.
                                  > > > Gauros gansuns
                                  > > > goljand sik uhtwon.
                                  > > > Falka sa frija
                                  > > > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                                  > > > unafswaggwiþs
                                  > > > sweþauh waijiþ.
                                  > > > Sparwan, sparwari
                                  > > > bi spedistin qiþa.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Fredrik,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages ago,
                                  before
                                  > I
                                  > > > had access to all these great dictionaries on the internet. I
                                  > > can't
                                  > > > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I didn't know
                                  > about
                                  > > > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what suggests an
                                  i-
                                  > > > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic vocabulary!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end of a word
                                  > or
                                  > > > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as such. E.g. gods
                                  > &
                                  > > > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is actually more
                                  > common.
                                  > > > Apparently such spellings are most often found in certain
                                  > specific
                                  > > > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary, you might
                                  be
                                  > > > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from Francisc
                                  > which I
                                  > > > came across recently. Especially the ingenious lists of
                                  > chemical
                                  > > > and geographical terms.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary has some
                                  > > > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least one probable
                                  > > loan-
                                  > > > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler: *brano "heifer"
                                  > > (young
                                  > > > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > And finally, Francisc,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your guesses. I hope
                                  it
                                  > > > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Llama Nom
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co@s...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hi all!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i
                                  > cannot
                                  > > > find
                                  > > > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I have
                                  > > > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on internet
                                  > but
                                  > > > > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it
                                  > instead.
                                  > > > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka') and
                                  > the
                                  > > > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries
                                  > (like
                                  > > > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                                  > > > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-stem.
                                  > > > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine so
                                  > > > therefore
                                  > > > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Comments please!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > /Fredrik
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a
                                  > > > blank email to .
                                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • llama_nom
                                  Fredrik, A few random thoughts about Francisc s old list: Gauþaland Gautaland (the -th- I think is just an affected spelling used in later times to look
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 22, 2005
                                    Fredrik,

                                    A few random thoughts about Francisc's old list:

                                    Gauþaland > Gautaland (the -th- I think is just an affected spelling
                                    used in later times to look more like the Greek word Gotthoi).

                                    Dunawi / Donawi "Danube" -- Czarnecki has -o-, which would be the
                                    Gothic/Germanic vowel corresponding to /a:/ in the Celtic and Latin
                                    forms.

                                    aket/akeit -- introducing special distinctions might be confusing,
                                    as this is a very common spelling fluctuation. I suppose the
                                    older "correct" form would be aket.

                                    Genetive and adjectival compounds: there is evidence that the normal
                                    unemphatic tendency in Gothic was for adjectives and genitive
                                    qualifiers to precede the noun, as can be seen where more than one
                                    word is required to match a single Greek word, e.g. wilþeis
                                    alewabagms "wild olive tree", airþos waurstwja "farmer"--so maybe
                                    rather: swiblein aket, etc.

                                    salmo "salmon" -- how about the native *lahs?


                                    Some other sources for neologisms:

                                    http://www.angelfire.com/goth/kuni/
                                    http://members.aol.com/yahyam/BagmeBloma.html
                                    http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/
                                    http://matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/

                                    The last is Matthew's newer site, but unfortunately it doesn't seem
                                    to be working these days. It had some fun stuff composed by members
                                    of this list, long before I joined. His old site also has Tolkien's
                                    Bagme Bloma. (Re which: wagjand lindos seems more like it ought to
                                    be "they shake lindens/shields?" than "...gently". And fraujinon
                                    takes dative, so: fraujinondei fairgunja -- which wrecks the rhyme
                                    scheme, I know...) There is a newer corrected version of Tim
                                    O'Neil's Wulfila Poem here:

                                    http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Post/226178

                                    Llama Nom







                                    --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanx...
                                    >
                                    > That seems to be a quite good idea, to collect neologisms from
                                    > different persons...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Excellent stuff, Fredrik!
                                    > >
                                    > > I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll extract
                                    the
                                    > > approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic dictionary
                                    for
                                    > > you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to include
                                    > his
                                    > > creations and make a really big combined effort. >
                                    > > Llama Nom
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Llama Nom
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d in
                                    plural
                                    > > and
                                    > > > some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus' that some
                                    > > > mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right that word
                                    > > > means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except the
                                    > obvious
                                    > > > reason)?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting. A lot of
                                    > > those
                                    > > > words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                                    > > > Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I thought
                                    of.
                                    > > > I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som guess it
                                    > > would
                                    > > > be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know which
                                    gender).
                                    > > To
                                    > > > continue the same way of making the words of potato and
                                    stawberry
                                    > > > with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add the word
                                    > > > aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).
                                    > > >
                                    > > > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i
                                    thought
                                    > > of
                                    > > > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non neologisms)
                                    if
                                    > > > some one is interested. I guess some are not that well done,
                                    cos
                                    > I
                                    > > > made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope you can
                                    tell
                                    > > me
                                    > > > corrections.
                                    > > > It's on a website that is:
                                    > > > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > /Fredrik
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Oscar,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to
                                    paraphrase
                                    > > the
                                    > > > > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly". But
                                    alright
                                    > > for
                                    > > > > alliteration, oh dear:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Nu skulum namnjan
                                    > > > > namna fugle,
                                    > > > > anuþ jah ahak,
                                    > > > > all þatei fliugiþ,
                                    > > > > hrabn hrukjandan,
                                    > > > > hraiwadubon,
                                    > > > > aran swaswe agatja,
                                    > > > > airþabundanana hanan.
                                    > > > > Gauros gansuns
                                    > > > > goljand sik uhtwon.
                                    > > > > Falka sa frija
                                    > > > > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                                    > > > > unafswaggwiþs
                                    > > > > sweþauh waijiþ.
                                    > > > > Sparwan, sparwari
                                    > > > > bi spedistin qiþa.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Fredrik,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages ago,
                                    > before
                                    > > I
                                    > > > > had access to all these great dictionaries on the internet.
                                    I
                                    > > > can't
                                    > > > > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I didn't
                                    know
                                    > > about
                                    > > > > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what suggests
                                    an
                                    > i-
                                    > > > > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic vocabulary!
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end of a
                                    word
                                    > > or
                                    > > > > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as such. E.g.
                                    gods
                                    > > &
                                    > > > > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is actually more
                                    > > common.
                                    > > > > Apparently such spellings are most often found in certain
                                    > > specific
                                    > > > > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary, you
                                    might
                                    > be
                                    > > > > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from Francisc
                                    > > which I
                                    > > > > came across recently. Especially the ingenious lists of
                                    > > chemical
                                    > > > > and geographical terms.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary has
                                    some
                                    > > > > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least one
                                    probable
                                    > > > loan-
                                    > > > > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler:
                                    *brano "heifer"
                                    > > > (young
                                    > > > > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > And finally, Francisc,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your guesses. I
                                    hope
                                    > it
                                    > > > > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Llama Nom
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA
                                    <duke.co@s...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > > > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hi all!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i
                                    > > cannot
                                    > > > > find
                                    > > > > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I
                                    have
                                    > > > > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on
                                    internet
                                    > > but
                                    > > > > > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it
                                    > > instead.
                                    > > > > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka')
                                    and
                                    > > the
                                    > > > > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries
                                    > > (like
                                    > > > > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                                    > > > > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-
                                    stem.
                                    > > > > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine so
                                    > > > > therefore
                                    > > > > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Comments please!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > /Fredrik
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe,
                                    send a
                                    > > > > blank email to .
                                    > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • thiudans
                                    My domain matthewcarver.com is in limbo right now... the old credit card it was drawing from expired and they were sending notices to a defunct email address.
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 22, 2005
                                      My domain matthewcarver.com is in limbo right now... the old credit
                                      card it was drawing from expired and they were sending notices to a
                                      defunct email address. i'm waiting for another month i think. anyway i
                                      still have the files on my storage disk. funny, i had forgotten about
                                      stormloader until a few months ago. don't think i remember the
                                      password or username for changing the files. :) i could repost the old
                                      neologisms i gathered from the first few hundred posts of this list if
                                      you're interested...

                                      -Matthew


                                      > Some other sources for neologisms:
                                      >
                                      > http://www.angelfire.com/goth/kuni/
                                      > http://members.aol.com/yahyam/BagmeBloma.html
                                      > http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/
                                      > http://matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/
                                      >
                                      > The last is Matthew's newer site, but unfortunately it doesn't seem
                                      > to be working these days. It had some fun stuff composed by members
                                      > of this list, long before I joined. His old site also has Tolkien's
                                      > Bagme Bloma. (Re which: wagjand lindos seems more like it ought to
                                      > be "they shake lindens/shields?" than "...gently". And fraujinon
                                      > takes dative, so: fraujinondei fairgunja -- which wrecks the rhyme
                                      > scheme, I know...) There is a newer corrected version of Tim
                                      > O'Neil's Wulfila Poem here:
                                      >
                                      > http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Post/226178
                                      >
                                      > Llama Nom
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanx...
                                      > >
                                      > > That seems to be a quite good idea, to collect neologisms from
                                      > > different persons...
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Excellent stuff, Fredrik!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll extract
                                      > the
                                      > > > approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic dictionary
                                      > for
                                      > > > you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to include
                                      > > his
                                      > > > creations and make a really big combined effort. >
                                      > > > Llama Nom
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Llama Nom
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d in
                                      > plural
                                      > > > and
                                      > > > > some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus' that some
                                      > > > > mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right that word
                                      > > > > means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except the
                                      > > obvious
                                      > > > > reason)?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting. A lot of
                                      > > > those
                                      > > > > words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                                      > > > > Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I thought
                                      > of.
                                      > > > > I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som guess it
                                      > > > would
                                      > > > > be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know which
                                      > gender).
                                      > > > To
                                      > > > > continue the same way of making the words of potato and
                                      > stawberry
                                      > > > > with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add the word
                                      > > > > aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i
                                      > thought
                                      > > > of
                                      > > > > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non neologisms)
                                      > if
                                      > > > > some one is interested. I guess some are not that well done,
                                      > cos
                                      > > I
                                      > > > > made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope you can
                                      > tell
                                      > > > me
                                      > > > > corrections.
                                      > > > > It's on a website that is:
                                      > > > > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > /Fredrik
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Oscar,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to
                                      > paraphrase
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > > > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly". But
                                      > alright
                                      > > > for
                                      > > > > > alliteration, oh dear:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Nu skulum namnjan
                                      > > > > > namna fugle,
                                      > > > > > anuþ jah ahak,
                                      > > > > > all þatei fliugiþ,
                                      > > > > > hrabn hrukjandan,
                                      > > > > > hraiwadubon,
                                      > > > > > aran swaswe agatja,
                                      > > > > > airþabundanana hanan.
                                      > > > > > Gauros gansuns
                                      > > > > > goljand sik uhtwon.
                                      > > > > > Falka sa frija
                                      > > > > > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                                      > > > > > unafswaggwiþs
                                      > > > > > sweþauh waijiþ.
                                      > > > > > Sparwan, sparwari
                                      > > > > > bi spedistin qiþa.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Fredrik,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages ago,
                                      > > before
                                      > > > I
                                      > > > > > had access to all these great dictionaries on the internet.
                                      > I
                                      > > > > can't
                                      > > > > > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I didn't
                                      > know
                                      > > > about
                                      > > > > > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what suggests
                                      > an
                                      > > i-
                                      > > > > > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic vocabulary!
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end of a
                                      > word
                                      > > > or
                                      > > > > > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as such. E.g.
                                      > gods
                                      > > > &
                                      > > > > > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is actually more
                                      > > > common.
                                      > > > > > Apparently such spellings are most often found in certain
                                      > > > specific
                                      > > > > > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary, you
                                      > might
                                      > > be
                                      > > > > > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from Francisc
                                      > > > which I
                                      > > > > > came across recently. Especially the ingenious lists of
                                      > > > chemical
                                      > > > > > and geographical terms.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary has
                                      > some
                                      > > > > > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least one
                                      > probable
                                      > > > > loan-
                                      > > > > > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler:
                                      > *brano "heifer"
                                      > > > > (young
                                      > > > > > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > And finally, Francisc,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your guesses. I
                                      > hope
                                      > > it
                                      > > > > > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Llama Nom
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA
                                      > <duke.co@s...>
                                      > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Hi all!
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which i
                                      > > > cannot
                                      > > > > > find
                                      > > > > > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck. I
                                      > have
                                      > > > > > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on
                                      > internet
                                      > > > but
                                      > > > > > > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate it
                                      > > > instead.
                                      > > > > > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another form 'anka')
                                      > and
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > > > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and dicctionaries
                                      > > > (like
                                      > > > > > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                                      > > > > > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an i-
                                      > stem.
                                      > > > > > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine so
                                      > > > > > therefore
                                      > > > > > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Comments please!
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > /Fredrik
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe,
                                      > send a
                                      > > > > > blank email to .
                                      > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • llama_nom
                                      i could repost the old ... list if ... Yes, that would be good. I really like the alliterative Ring Verse, by the way! That was one of the first things I
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 23, 2005
                                        i could repost the old
                                        > neologisms i gathered from the first few hundred posts of this
                                        list if
                                        > you're interested...


                                        Yes, that would be good. I really like the alliterative Ring Verse,
                                        by the way! That was one of the first things I found years ago when
                                        I first looked for Gothic on the internet.

                                        Anyone combing my dictionary for neologisms should search for the
                                        symbol ! (this will turn up imperatives too, but should also locate
                                        the 23 or so outright neologisms in there).

                                        http://www.oe.eclipse.co.uk/nom/egdhome.html

                                        There's also notes in the Introduction about making feminine agent
                                        nouns from the various classes of masculines, and vice versa. And a
                                        few more in the Þeihsafarande faurawaurd "preface for time-
                                        travellers".

                                        As I think someone mentioned on an early post here, there are many
                                        neologisms/reconstructions in Jakob Grimm's Teutonic Mythology.

                                        I don't know what conclusions other have reached, but I used to
                                        render "yesterday" as *fauradagis, but considering Go. fairnin
                                        jera "last year"--I'm inclining more towards * fairnin
                                        daga "yesterday" (reserving *fauradagis for "on the previous day").

                                        Some suggestions for grammar words I thought of a while back; assume
                                        asterisks everywhere except gumakunds "male", qinakunds "female",
                                        samaqiss "agreement":

                                        waihtiwaurd - noun
                                        tojawaurd - verb
                                        hvileikawaurd - adjective
                                        hvewaurd - adverb
                                        faurwaurd - pronoun
                                        frehawaurd - interrogative
                                        raþjawaurd - numeral
                                        particle - daili (or attested: drauhsna, gabruka, daila "piece of
                                        money, fellowship")

                                        gumakunds - masculine
                                        qinakunds - feminine
                                        nihvaþarakunds - neuter (half-calque on Latin)

                                        namnadrusts (nd.) - nominative
                                        þuladrusts (þd.) - accusative
                                        aiginadrusts (ad.) - genitive
                                        gibadrusts (gd.) - dative
                                        hvedrusts (hvd.) - intrumental

                                        afdrusts, ibdrusts?, halþs - oblique

                                        (Those owe a lot to Icelandic, except that they're nouns, but I
                                        picked *gibadrusts, rather than *nimadrusts for the sake of
                                        abbreviations, to avoid confusion over initials. Maybe the
                                        adjective of nominative could be a past participle *namnadrusans.)

                                        numel - present tense
                                        faurmel - past tense, preterite (cf. faur mel "before time, in
                                        advance"; faur "ago, past"; or like Icelandic *þanmel, but this
                                        would make it harder to translate Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow
                                        into Gothic...)
                                        anawairþamel - future tense

                                        spillamodei - indicative mood
                                        untriggwamodei - subjunctive
                                        = wiljamodei - optative
                                        tojastibna - active voice
                                        þulastibna - passive voice

                                        samaqiss - agreement

                                        relative particle - kunjando daili
                                        compund word - gagahaftiþ waurd
                                        conjunction - bindawaurd

                                        bihliuþs - umlaut
                                        afhliuþs - ablaut
                                        afhliudatewa - ablaut series

                                        Incidentally, has anyone noticed whether Gothic has any tendency to
                                        agree more with North or West Germanic in words of doubtful gender?
                                        All the examples I can think of are unclear in Gothic, due to lack
                                        of attested forms: dal(s), biuþ(s), lubi/lubja.

                                        Llama Nom


                                        PS. here's something I discovered last night:

                                        http://www.dike.de/pfr-tischner/22-spr/ht-germ/krimgot.htm

                                        A "complete etymological dictionary of Crimean Gothic", with
                                        speculations on pronunciation.





                                        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > My domain matthewcarver.com is in limbo right now... the old credit
                                        > card it was drawing from expired and they were sending notices to a
                                        > defunct email address. i'm waiting for another month i think.
                                        anyway i
                                        > still have the files on my storage disk. funny, i had forgotten
                                        about
                                        > stormloader until a few months ago. don't think i remember the
                                        > password or username for changing the files. :) i could repost the
                                        old
                                        > neologisms i gathered from the first few hundred posts of this
                                        list if
                                        > you're interested...
                                        >
                                        > -Matthew
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Some other sources for neologisms:
                                        > >
                                        > > http://www.angelfire.com/goth/kuni/
                                        > > http://members.aol.com/yahyam/BagmeBloma.html
                                        > > http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/
                                        > > http://matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/
                                        > >
                                        > > The last is Matthew's newer site, but unfortunately it doesn't
                                        seem
                                        > > to be working these days. It had some fun stuff composed by
                                        members
                                        > > of this list, long before I joined. His old site also has
                                        Tolkien's
                                        > > Bagme Bloma. (Re which: wagjand lindos seems more like it ought
                                        to
                                        > > be "they shake lindens/shields?" than "...gently". And
                                        fraujinon
                                        > > takes dative, so: fraujinondei fairgunja -- which wrecks the
                                        rhyme
                                        > > scheme, I know...) There is a newer corrected version of Tim
                                        > > O'Neil's Wulfila Poem here:
                                        > >
                                        > > http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Post/226178
                                        > >
                                        > > Llama Nom
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanx...
                                        > > >
                                        > > > That seems to be a quite good idea, to collect neologisms from
                                        > > > different persons...
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Excellent stuff, Fredrik!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll
                                        extract
                                        > > the
                                        > > > > approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic
                                        dictionary
                                        > > for
                                        > > > > you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to
                                        include
                                        > > > his
                                        > > > > creations and make a really big combined effort. >
                                        > > > > Llama Nom
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Llama Nom
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d in
                                        > > plural
                                        > > > > and
                                        > > > > > some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus' that
                                        some
                                        > > > > > mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right that
                                        word
                                        > > > > > means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except the
                                        > > > obvious
                                        > > > > > reason)?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting. A
                                        lot of
                                        > > > > those
                                        > > > > > words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                                        > > > > > Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I
                                        thought
                                        > > of.
                                        > > > > > I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som
                                        guess it
                                        > > > > would
                                        > > > > > be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know which
                                        > > gender).
                                        > > > > To
                                        > > > > > continue the same way of making the words of potato and
                                        > > stawberry
                                        > > > > > with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add the
                                        word
                                        > > > > > aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i
                                        > > thought
                                        > > > > of
                                        > > > > > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non
                                        neologisms)
                                        > > if
                                        > > > > > some one is interested. I guess some are not that well
                                        done,
                                        > > cos
                                        > > > I
                                        > > > > > made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope you
                                        can
                                        > > tell
                                        > > > > me
                                        > > > > > corrections.
                                        > > > > > It's on a website that is:
                                        > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > /Fredrik
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom"
                                        <600cell@o...>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Oscar,
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to
                                        > > paraphrase
                                        > > > > the
                                        > > > > > > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly". But
                                        > > alright
                                        > > > > for
                                        > > > > > > alliteration, oh dear:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Nu skulum namnjan
                                        > > > > > > namna fugle,
                                        > > > > > > anuþ jah ahak,
                                        > > > > > > all þatei fliugiþ,
                                        > > > > > > hrabn hrukjandan,
                                        > > > > > > hraiwadubon,
                                        > > > > > > aran swaswe agatja,
                                        > > > > > > airþabundanana hanan.
                                        > > > > > > Gauros gansuns
                                        > > > > > > goljand sik uhtwon.
                                        > > > > > > Falka sa frija
                                        > > > > > > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                                        > > > > > > unafswaggwiþs
                                        > > > > > > sweþauh waijiþ.
                                        > > > > > > Sparwan, sparwari
                                        > > > > > > bi spedistin qiþa.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Fredrik,
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages
                                        ago,
                                        > > > before
                                        > > > > I
                                        > > > > > > had access to all these great dictionaries on the
                                        internet.
                                        > > I
                                        > > > > > can't
                                        > > > > > > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I didn't
                                        > > know
                                        > > > > about
                                        > > > > > > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what
                                        suggests
                                        > > an
                                        > > > i-
                                        > > > > > > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic vocabulary!
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end of
                                        a
                                        > > word
                                        > > > > or
                                        > > > > > > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as such.
                                        E.g.
                                        > > gods
                                        > > > > &
                                        > > > > > > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is actually
                                        more
                                        > > > > common.
                                        > > > > > > Apparently such spellings are most often found in
                                        certain
                                        > > > > specific
                                        > > > > > > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary, you
                                        > > might
                                        > > > be
                                        > > > > > > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from
                                        Francisc
                                        > > > > which I
                                        > > > > > > came across recently. Especially the ingenious lists of
                                        > > > > chemical
                                        > > > > > > and geographical terms.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary has
                                        > > some
                                        > > > > > > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least one
                                        > > probable
                                        > > > > > loan-
                                        > > > > > > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler:
                                        > > *brano "heifer"
                                        > > > > > (young
                                        > > > > > > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > And finally, Francisc,
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your guesses. I
                                        > > hope
                                        > > > it
                                        > > > > > > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA
                                        > > <duke.co@s...>
                                        > > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > > > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Hi all!
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic which
                                        i
                                        > > > > cannot
                                        > > > > > > find
                                        > > > > > > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for duck.
                                        I
                                        > > have
                                        > > > > > > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on
                                        > > internet
                                        > > > > but
                                        > > > > > > > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate
                                        it
                                        > > > > instead.
                                        > > > > > > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another
                                        form 'anka')
                                        > > and
                                        > > > > the
                                        > > > > > > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and
                                        dicctionaries
                                        > > > > (like
                                        > > > > > > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                                        > > > > > > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and an
                                        i-
                                        > > stem.
                                        > > > > > > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both feminine
                                        so
                                        > > > > > > therefore
                                        > > > > > > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Comments please!
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > /Fredrik
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe,
                                        > > send a
                                        > > > > > > blank email to .
                                        > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Fredrik
                                        Llama Nom Nice done...I just thought of this myself some days ago, and now I wont need to think of this anymore :) But I miss two words, one for gender and
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 24, 2005
                                          Llama Nom

                                          Nice done...I just thought of this myself some days ago, and now I
                                          wont need to think of this anymore :)
                                          But I miss two words, one for 'gender' and one for 'case'.
                                          I assume gender would be 'kunds' and case 'drusts', considering what
                                          your words contain.
                                          >
                                          > Some suggestions for grammar words I thought of a while back;
                                          assume
                                          > asterisks everywhere except gumakunds "male", qinakunds "female",
                                          > samaqiss "agreement":
                                          >
                                          > waihtiwaurd - noun
                                          > tojawaurd - verb
                                          > hvileikawaurd - adjective
                                          > hvewaurd - adverb
                                          > faurwaurd - pronoun
                                          > frehawaurd - interrogative
                                          > raþjawaurd - numeral
                                          > particle - daili (or attested: drauhsna, gabruka, daila "piece of
                                          > money, fellowship")
                                          >
                                          > gumakunds - masculine
                                          > qinakunds - feminine
                                          > nihvaþarakunds - neuter (half-calque on Latin)
                                          >
                                          > namnadrusts (nd.) - nominative
                                          > þuladrusts (þd.) - accusative
                                          > aiginadrusts (ad.) - genitive
                                          > gibadrusts (gd.) - dative
                                          > hvedrusts (hvd.) - intrumental
                                          >
                                          > afdrusts, ibdrusts?, halþs - oblique
                                          >
                                          > (Those owe a lot to Icelandic, except that they're nouns, but I
                                          > picked *gibadrusts, rather than *nimadrusts for the sake of
                                          > abbreviations, to avoid confusion over initials. Maybe the
                                          > adjective of nominative could be a past participle *namnadrusans.)
                                          >
                                          > numel - present tense
                                          > faurmel - past tense, preterite (cf. faur mel "before time, in
                                          > advance"; faur "ago, past"; or like Icelandic *þanmel, but this
                                          > would make it harder to translate Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's
                                          Rainbow
                                          > into Gothic...)
                                          > anawairþamel - future tense
                                          >
                                          > spillamodei - indicative mood
                                          > untriggwamodei - subjunctive
                                          > = wiljamodei - optative
                                          > tojastibna - active voice
                                          > þulastibna - passive voice
                                          >
                                          > samaqiss - agreement
                                          >
                                          > relative particle - kunjando daili
                                          > compund word - gagahaftiþ waurd
                                          > conjunction - bindawaurd
                                          >
                                          > bihliuþs - umlaut
                                          > afhliuþs - ablaut
                                          > afhliudatewa - ablaut series
                                          >
                                          > Incidentally, has anyone noticed whether Gothic has any tendency to
                                          > agree more with North or West Germanic in words of doubtful
                                          gender?
                                          > All the examples I can think of are unclear in Gothic, due to lack
                                          > of attested forms: dal(s), biuþ(s), lubi/lubja.
                                          >
                                          > Llama Nom
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > PS. here's something I discovered last night:
                                          >
                                          > http://www.dike.de/pfr-tischner/22-spr/ht-germ/krimgot.htm
                                          >
                                          > A "complete etymological dictionary of Crimean Gothic", with
                                          > speculations on pronunciation.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > My domain matthewcarver.com is in limbo right now... the old
                                          credit
                                          > > card it was drawing from expired and they were sending notices to
                                          a
                                          > > defunct email address. i'm waiting for another month i think.
                                          > anyway i
                                          > > still have the files on my storage disk. funny, i had forgotten
                                          > about
                                          > > stormloader until a few months ago. don't think i remember the
                                          > > password or username for changing the files. :) i could repost
                                          the
                                          > old
                                          > > neologisms i gathered from the first few hundred posts of this
                                          > list if
                                          > > you're interested...
                                          > >
                                          > > -Matthew
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > Some other sources for neologisms:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > http://www.angelfire.com/goth/kuni/
                                          > > > http://members.aol.com/yahyam/BagmeBloma.html
                                          > > > http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/
                                          > > > http://matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The last is Matthew's newer site, but unfortunately it doesn't
                                          > seem
                                          > > > to be working these days. It had some fun stuff composed by
                                          > members
                                          > > > of this list, long before I joined. His old site also has
                                          > Tolkien's
                                          > > > Bagme Bloma. (Re which: wagjand lindos seems more like it
                                          ought
                                          > to
                                          > > > be "they shake lindens/shields?" than "...gently". And
                                          > fraujinon
                                          > > > takes dative, so: fraujinondei fairgunja -- which wrecks the
                                          > rhyme
                                          > > > scheme, I know...) There is a newer corrected version of Tim
                                          > > > O'Neil's Wulfila Poem here:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Post/226178
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Llama Nom
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thanx...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > That seems to be a quite good idea, to collect neologisms
                                          from
                                          > > > > different persons...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@o...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Excellent stuff, Fredrik!
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll
                                          > extract
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > > approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic
                                          > dictionary
                                          > > > for
                                          > > > > > you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to
                                          > include
                                          > > > > his
                                          > > > > > creations and make a really big combined effort. >
                                          > > > > > Llama Nom
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...>
                                          > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d in
                                          > > > plural
                                          > > > > > and
                                          > > > > > > some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus' that
                                          > some
                                          > > > > > > mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right that
                                          > word
                                          > > > > > > means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except
                                          the
                                          > > > > obvious
                                          > > > > > > reason)?
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting. A
                                          > lot of
                                          > > > > > those
                                          > > > > > > words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                                          > > > > > > Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I
                                          > thought
                                          > > > of.
                                          > > > > > > I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som
                                          > guess it
                                          > > > > > would
                                          > > > > > > be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know which
                                          > > > gender).
                                          > > > > > To
                                          > > > > > > continue the same way of making the words of potato and
                                          > > > stawberry
                                          > > > > > > with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add the
                                          > word
                                          > > > > > > aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i
                                          > > > thought
                                          > > > > > of
                                          > > > > > > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non
                                          > neologisms)
                                          > > > if
                                          > > > > > > some one is interested. I guess some are not that well
                                          > done,
                                          > > > cos
                                          > > > > I
                                          > > > > > > made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope you
                                          > can
                                          > > > tell
                                          > > > > > me
                                          > > > > > > corrections.
                                          > > > > > > It's on a website that is:
                                          > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > /Fredrik
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom"
                                          > <600cell@o...>
                                          > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Oscar,
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to
                                          > > > paraphrase
                                          > > > > > the
                                          > > > > > > > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly". But
                                          > > > alright
                                          > > > > > for
                                          > > > > > > > alliteration, oh dear:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Nu skulum namnjan
                                          > > > > > > > namna fugle,
                                          > > > > > > > anuþ jah ahak,
                                          > > > > > > > all þatei fliugiþ,
                                          > > > > > > > hrabn hrukjandan,
                                          > > > > > > > hraiwadubon,
                                          > > > > > > > aran swaswe agatja,
                                          > > > > > > > airþabundanana hanan.
                                          > > > > > > > Gauros gansuns
                                          > > > > > > > goljand sik uhtwon.
                                          > > > > > > > Falka sa frija
                                          > > > > > > > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                                          > > > > > > > unafswaggwiþs
                                          > > > > > > > sweþauh waijiþ.
                                          > > > > > > > Sparwan, sparwari
                                          > > > > > > > bi spedistin qiþa.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Fredrik,
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages
                                          > ago,
                                          > > > > before
                                          > > > > > I
                                          > > > > > > > had access to all these great dictionaries on the
                                          > internet.
                                          > > > I
                                          > > > > > > can't
                                          > > > > > > > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I
                                          didn't
                                          > > > know
                                          > > > > > about
                                          > > > > > > > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what
                                          > suggests
                                          > > > an
                                          > > > > i-
                                          > > > > > > > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic vocabulary!
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end of
                                          > a
                                          > > > word
                                          > > > > > or
                                          > > > > > > > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as such.
                                          > E.g.
                                          > > > gods
                                          > > > > > &
                                          > > > > > > > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is actually
                                          > more
                                          > > > > > common.
                                          > > > > > > > Apparently such spellings are most often found in
                                          > certain
                                          > > > > > specific
                                          > > > > > > > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary, you
                                          > > > might
                                          > > > > be
                                          > > > > > > > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from
                                          > Francisc
                                          > > > > > which I
                                          > > > > > > > came across recently. Especially the ingenious lists
                                          of
                                          > > > > > chemical
                                          > > > > > > > and geographical terms.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary
                                          has
                                          > > > some
                                          > > > > > > > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least one
                                          > > > probable
                                          > > > > > > loan-
                                          > > > > > > > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler:
                                          > > > *brano "heifer"
                                          > > > > > > (young
                                          > > > > > > > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > And finally, Francisc,
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your guesses.
                                          I
                                          > > > hope
                                          > > > > it
                                          > > > > > > > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA
                                          > > > <duke.co@s...>
                                          > > > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Hi all!
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic
                                          which
                                          > i
                                          > > > > > cannot
                                          > > > > > > > find
                                          > > > > > > > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for
                                          duck.
                                          > I
                                          > > > have
                                          > > > > > > > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about on
                                          > > > internet
                                          > > > > > but
                                          > > > > > > > > without finding any so i took the freedom to recreate
                                          > it
                                          > > > > > instead.
                                          > > > > > > > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another
                                          > form 'anka')
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > > > the
                                          > > > > > > > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and
                                          > dicctionaries
                                          > > > > > (like
                                          > > > > > > > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                                          > > > > > > > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic, and
                                          an
                                          > i-
                                          > > > stem.
                                          > > > > > > > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both
                                          feminine
                                          > so
                                          > > > > > > > therefore
                                          > > > > > > > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Comments please!
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > /Fredrik
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To
                                          unsubscribe,
                                          > > > send a
                                          > > > > > > > blank email to .
                                          > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • llama_nom
                                          If there s any ambiguity maybe we could add an optional WAURDALEISEINS KUNDS / DRUSTS grammatical gender/case , genitive sg. of *waurdaleisei grammar . If
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 24, 2005
                                            If there's any ambiguity maybe we could add an optional
                                            WAURDALEISEINS KUNDS / DRUSTS "grammatical gender/case", genitive
                                            sg. of *waurdaleisei "grammar". If lubjaleisei is "[occult]
                                            herbcraft / [magical] pharmacology", then -leisei might be a good
                                            suffix for other words ending in -ology.

                                            *stairnaleisei - astronomy
                                            *raþjaleisei - mathematics
                                            *wistileisei - physics
                                            *razdaleisei - linguistics
                                            *bokaleisei - the study of literature

                                            Llama Nom


                                            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Llama Nom
                                            >
                                            > Nice done...I just thought of this myself some days ago, and now I
                                            > wont need to think of this anymore :)
                                            > But I miss two words, one for 'gender' and one for 'case'.
                                            > I assume gender would be 'kunds' and case 'drusts', considering
                                            what
                                            > your words contain.
                                            > >
                                            > > Some suggestions for grammar words I thought of a while back;
                                            > assume
                                            > > asterisks everywhere except gumakunds "male",
                                            qinakunds "female",
                                            > > samaqiss "agreement":
                                            > >
                                            > > waihtiwaurd - noun
                                            > > tojawaurd - verb
                                            > > hvileikawaurd - adjective
                                            > > hvewaurd - adverb
                                            > > faurwaurd - pronoun
                                            > > frehawaurd - interrogative
                                            > > raþjawaurd - numeral
                                            > > particle - daili (or attested: drauhsna, gabruka, daila "piece
                                            of
                                            > > money, fellowship")
                                            > >
                                            > > gumakunds - masculine
                                            > > qinakunds - feminine
                                            > > nihvaþarakunds - neuter (half-calque on Latin)
                                            > >
                                            > > namnadrusts (nd.) - nominative
                                            > > þuladrusts (þd.) - accusative
                                            > > aiginadrusts (ad.) - genitive
                                            > > gibadrusts (gd.) - dative
                                            > > hvedrusts (hvd.) - intrumental
                                            > >
                                            > > afdrusts, ibdrusts?, halþs - oblique
                                            > >
                                            > > (Those owe a lot to Icelandic, except that they're nouns, but I
                                            > > picked *gibadrusts, rather than *nimadrusts for the sake of
                                            > > abbreviations, to avoid confusion over initials. Maybe the
                                            > > adjective of nominative could be a past participle
                                            *namnadrusans.)
                                            > >
                                            > > numel - present tense
                                            > > faurmel - past tense, preterite (cf. faur mel "before time, in
                                            > > advance"; faur "ago, past"; or like Icelandic *þanmel, but this
                                            > > would make it harder to translate Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's
                                            > Rainbow
                                            > > into Gothic...)
                                            > > anawairþamel - future tense
                                            > >
                                            > > spillamodei - indicative mood
                                            > > untriggwamodei - subjunctive
                                            > > = wiljamodei - optative
                                            > > tojastibna - active voice
                                            > > þulastibna - passive voice
                                            > >
                                            > > samaqiss - agreement
                                            > >
                                            > > relative particle - kunjando daili
                                            > > compund word - gagahaftiþ waurd
                                            > > conjunction - bindawaurd
                                            > >
                                            > > bihliuþs - umlaut
                                            > > afhliuþs - ablaut
                                            > > afhliudatewa - ablaut series
                                            > >
                                            > > Incidentally, has anyone noticed whether Gothic has any tendency
                                            to
                                            > > agree more with North or West Germanic in words of doubtful
                                            > gender?
                                            > > All the examples I can think of are unclear in Gothic, due to
                                            lack
                                            > > of attested forms: dal(s), biuþ(s), lubi/lubja.
                                            > >
                                            > > Llama Nom
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > PS. here's something I discovered last night:
                                            > >
                                            > > http://www.dike.de/pfr-tischner/22-spr/ht-germ/krimgot.htm
                                            > >
                                            > > A "complete etymological dictionary of Crimean Gothic", with
                                            > > speculations on pronunciation.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > My domain matthewcarver.com is in limbo right now... the old
                                            > credit
                                            > > > card it was drawing from expired and they were sending notices
                                            to
                                            > a
                                            > > > defunct email address. i'm waiting for another month i think.
                                            > > anyway i
                                            > > > still have the files on my storage disk. funny, i had
                                            forgotten
                                            > > about
                                            > > > stormloader until a few months ago. don't think i remember the
                                            > > > password or username for changing the files. :) i could repost
                                            > the
                                            > > old
                                            > > > neologisms i gathered from the first few hundred posts of this
                                            > > list if
                                            > > > you're interested...
                                            > > >
                                            > > > -Matthew
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > Some other sources for neologisms:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/goth/kuni/
                                            > > > > http://members.aol.com/yahyam/BagmeBloma.html
                                            > > > > http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/
                                            > > > > http://matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > The last is Matthew's newer site, but unfortunately it
                                            doesn't
                                            > > seem
                                            > > > > to be working these days. It had some fun stuff composed by
                                            > > members
                                            > > > > of this list, long before I joined. His old site also has
                                            > > Tolkien's
                                            > > > > Bagme Bloma. (Re which: wagjand lindos seems more like it
                                            > ought
                                            > > to
                                            > > > > be "they shake lindens/shields?" than "...gently". And
                                            > > fraujinon
                                            > > > > takes dative, so: fraujinondei fairgunja -- which wrecks the
                                            > > rhyme
                                            > > > > scheme, I know...) There is a newer corrected version of
                                            Tim
                                            > > > > O'Neil's Wulfila Poem here:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Post/226178
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Llama Nom
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Thanx...
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > That seems to be a quite good idea, to collect neologisms
                                            > from
                                            > > > > > different persons...
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom"
                                            <600cell@o...>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Excellent stuff, Fredrik!
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll
                                            > > extract
                                            > > > > the
                                            > > > > > > approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic
                                            > > dictionary
                                            > > > > for
                                            > > > > > > you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to
                                            > > include
                                            > > > > > his
                                            > > > > > > creations and make a really big combined effort. >
                                            > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik"
                                            <gadrauhts@h...>
                                            > > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d
                                            in
                                            > > > > plural
                                            > > > > > > and
                                            > > > > > > > some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus'
                                            that
                                            > > some
                                            > > > > > > > mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right
                                            that
                                            > > word
                                            > > > > > > > means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except
                                            > the
                                            > > > > > obvious
                                            > > > > > > > reason)?
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting.
                                            A
                                            > > lot of
                                            > > > > > > those
                                            > > > > > > > words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                                            > > > > > > > Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I
                                            > > thought
                                            > > > > of.
                                            > > > > > > > I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som
                                            > > guess it
                                            > > > > > > would
                                            > > > > > > > be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know
                                            which
                                            > > > > gender).
                                            > > > > > > To
                                            > > > > > > > continue the same way of making the words of potato
                                            and
                                            > > > > stawberry
                                            > > > > > > > with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add
                                            the
                                            > > word
                                            > > > > > > > aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and
                                            i
                                            > > > > thought
                                            > > > > > > of
                                            > > > > > > > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non
                                            > > neologisms)
                                            > > > > if
                                            > > > > > > > some one is interested. I guess some are not that well
                                            > > done,
                                            > > > > cos
                                            > > > > > I
                                            > > > > > > > made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope
                                            you
                                            > > can
                                            > > > > tell
                                            > > > > > > me
                                            > > > > > > > corrections.
                                            > > > > > > > It's on a website that is:
                                            > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > /Fredrik
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom"
                                            > > <600cell@o...>
                                            > > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Oscar,
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to
                                            > > > > paraphrase
                                            > > > > > > the
                                            > > > > > > > > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly".
                                            But
                                            > > > > alright
                                            > > > > > > for
                                            > > > > > > > > alliteration, oh dear:
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Nu skulum namnjan
                                            > > > > > > > > namna fugle,
                                            > > > > > > > > anuþ jah ahak,
                                            > > > > > > > > all þatei fliugiþ,
                                            > > > > > > > > hrabn hrukjandan,
                                            > > > > > > > > hraiwadubon,
                                            > > > > > > > > aran swaswe agatja,
                                            > > > > > > > > airþabundanana hanan.
                                            > > > > > > > > Gauros gansuns
                                            > > > > > > > > goljand sik uhtwon.
                                            > > > > > > > > Falka sa frija
                                            > > > > > > > > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                                            > > > > > > > > unafswaggwiþs
                                            > > > > > > > > sweþauh waijiþ.
                                            > > > > > > > > Sparwan, sparwari
                                            > > > > > > > > bi spedistin qiþa.
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Fredrik,
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages
                                            > > ago,
                                            > > > > > before
                                            > > > > > > I
                                            > > > > > > > > had access to all these great dictionaries on the
                                            > > internet.
                                            > > > > I
                                            > > > > > > > can't
                                            > > > > > > > > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I
                                            > didn't
                                            > > > > know
                                            > > > > > > about
                                            > > > > > > > > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what
                                            > > suggests
                                            > > > > an
                                            > > > > > i-
                                            > > > > > > > > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic
                                            vocabulary!
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end
                                            of
                                            > > a
                                            > > > > word
                                            > > > > > > or
                                            > > > > > > > > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as
                                            such.
                                            > > E.g.
                                            > > > > gods
                                            > > > > > > &
                                            > > > > > > > > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is
                                            actually
                                            > > more
                                            > > > > > > common.
                                            > > > > > > > > Apparently such spellings are most often found in
                                            > > certain
                                            > > > > > > specific
                                            > > > > > > > > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary,
                                            you
                                            > > > > might
                                            > > > > > be
                                            > > > > > > > > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from
                                            > > Francisc
                                            > > > > > > which I
                                            > > > > > > > > came across recently. Especially the ingenious
                                            lists
                                            > of
                                            > > > > > > chemical
                                            > > > > > > > > and geographical terms.
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary
                                            > has
                                            > > > > some
                                            > > > > > > > > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least
                                            one
                                            > > > > probable
                                            > > > > > > > loan-
                                            > > > > > > > > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler:
                                            > > > > *brano "heifer"
                                            > > > > > > > (young
                                            > > > > > > > > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > And finally, Francisc,
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your
                                            guesses.
                                            > I
                                            > > > > hope
                                            > > > > > it
                                            > > > > > > > > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA
                                            > > > > <duke.co@s...>
                                            > > > > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > Hi all!
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic
                                            > which
                                            > > i
                                            > > > > > > cannot
                                            > > > > > > > > find
                                            > > > > > > > > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for
                                            > duck.
                                            > > I
                                            > > > > have
                                            > > > > > > > > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about
                                            on
                                            > > > > internet
                                            > > > > > > but
                                            > > > > > > > > > without finding any so i took the freedom to
                                            recreate
                                            > > it
                                            > > > > > > instead.
                                            > > > > > > > > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another
                                            > > form 'anka')
                                            > > > > and
                                            > > > > > > the
                                            > > > > > > > > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and
                                            > > dicctionaries
                                            > > > > > > (like
                                            > > > > > > > > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                                            > > > > > > > > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic,
                                            and
                                            > an
                                            > > i-
                                            > > > > stem.
                                            > > > > > > > > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both
                                            > feminine
                                            > > so
                                            > > > > > > > > therefore
                                            > > > > > > > > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > Comments please!
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > /Fredrik
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To
                                            > unsubscribe,
                                            > > > > send a
                                            > > > > > > > > blank email to .
                                            > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                            removed]
                                          • thiudans
                                            I hope you don t mind if I just cut & paste from my files. I don t have the time to collate the information at the time but I wanted to make it available, so
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jan 26, 2005
                                              I hope you don't mind if I just cut & paste from my files. I don't
                                              have the time to collate the information at the time but I wanted to
                                              make it available, so I'm sure if you comb through it it will become
                                              lisible. (This stuff goes *way* back! -- of course everything from
                                              before the switch to egroups/yahoogroups is lost sadly :/) Also I have
                                              collected somewhere the Go. reconstructions Grimm formulated in his
                                              teutonic mythology. I'll try to find those for the reconstructional
                                              wordhoard.

                                              cheers,
                                              Matthew


                                              ----



                                              Salo, David WISTR LAG WIGS RAIHTS, WRAIQS NU IST
                                              Salo, David; Petersen, Christ stafs, stabeis "stave"
                                              Salo, David bokastafs "letter, character"
                                              Salo, David Duhwe skulja ik ija insaihwan? Hwa qithand ija thatei ik
                                              skulja kunnan?
                                              Gerritsen, René wulflus in hauhistjam guda jah ana airflai gawairfli in
                                              mannam godis wiljins!
                                              Taylor, Gerry Bokarei razdos gutiskaizos,
                                              Skautland Scotland
                                              Hweitei (wf) Whiteness; der. "hweits"
                                              Aideinbaurgs (f) Edinburgh; to be declined like "baurgs".
                                              Rafskulda (f) Electricity bill ("raf" as suggested by
                                              others, skulda like
                                              Icelandic skuld; Gothic skula = debtor)
                                              Katus (m) Cat, from L. "catus"
                                              Haurdilo (wf) Small door, hurdle, (cat-)flap; suggested
                                              diminutive of
                                              "haurds"
                                              Bi thana wig By the way, incidentally (sorry!)
                                              Taglisks (aj) Hairy, furry; der. tagl
                                              Handgawaurhts Handmade

                                              Carver, Matthew cat-flap *katuhaurds.
                                              hairy, furry = taglahs
                                              Taylor, Gerry hilms taglahs = furry hat
                                              hilms tagleins = fur hat
                                              Carver, Matt ufariba = incidentally
                                              telebisio, teibei, fairsaihwa, siunwairp = t.v.
                                              Gerry T.
                                              Waurdhuzd - vocabulary

                                              wissei (f) Science; cf mithwissei = conscience; Ger.
                                              wissenschaft, Icel.
                                              visindi
                                              anglisks English
                                              thiudisks German, der. thiud "people"; cf Ger. deutsch, Icel. thysk
                                              bi allata Completely; cf bi sumata
                                              afmuns (f) Randomness, chance; af + muns = design, plan
                                              wau'rpilon Throw dice, der. wairpan = throw; cf Ger. wurfeln ?
                                              der. werfen
                                              anakanna'ins (f) Lecture, der. kannjan = make known; cf anakunnains = a
                                              reading
                                              ibnassus (m) Equation; attested in sense "evenness"; ibnaleiks = equal
                                              bokabaurd (n) Blackboard (chalkboard); boka + baurd
                                              frai'hna (f) Question, der. fraihnan; cf Ger. frage
                                              bi fullata Fully; cf bi sumata
                                              atwaurd (f) Statement; at + waurd
                                              infrisahts (f) Imagination; in + frisahts = image

                                              O'Neill, Tim Gutanhaims "Goth-home"
                                              sigisrohsn "victory-hall"
                                              munthauhjodus "mouth-tumult"
                                              luithareis "poet, skald, bard" [=liuth- (MC.)]
                                              fagrstibns "sweet-voiced"
                                              waurmleiko "serpentine"
                                              dauhtrohsn "feast-hall"
                                              daufs "deaf"
                                              sidaleik "wonderful"
                                              sifands "rejoicing"
                                              filuwaurdein "much-speaking"
                                              frijonskip "fellowing"
                                              kaurnhus "granary, barn"
                                              galgastads "gallows-place"
                                              birodjan "talk"
                                              runa-razda
                                              ansa-waurda
                                              badwsfaheths "battle-joy"
                                              ahtaguma "ferocious warror"
                                              huzdjan "hoard"
                                              bandwjan "signify"
                                              Kindahl, Tomas
                                              by The Way = Aljaleiko
                                              - "hrabans" < *hrabanaz > raven
                                              - "huairbils" < *huerbilaz > vortex.
                                              Salo, David Wulfastains = Wulfstan
                                              lisan, lisands, lisjau, lista, etc.
                                              kunjau, etc.
                                              thaurban, etc.
                                              gadaursands, etc.
                                              nauhan, nauhands, nauhjau, nauhta, etc.
                                              gamotan, gamosta, etc.
                                              aihts, aiht, etc.

                                              ---
                                            • llama_nom
                                              Hails Matthew, Excellent stuff! Especially *kat(t)uhaurds. Ahja sweþauh þatei þai waurdaskapjands alþizans jah frodozans nu waurþeina, bi sumos
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jan 26, 2005
                                                Hails Matthew,

                                                Excellent stuff! Especially *kat(t)uhaurds. Ahja sweþauh þatei þai
                                                waurdaskapjands alþizans jah frodozans nu waurþeina, bi sumos
                                                waihtins? But I guess we're a bit spoiled these days with all this
                                                information on the internet at our *figgraandjam.

                                                *handgawaurhts "handmade"
                                                Attested is handuwaurhts (also unhanduwaurhts).

                                                *bi allata "completely"
                                                The attested form is BI ALL, cf. Col 3,22., but *bi allata seems
                                                quite possible. I've got: (all) alls; (in every respect) bi all, in
                                                allamma; "I am completely deprived" allamma gasleithiths im;
                                                (utterly) all-andjo (looks like a calque on Gk. 'oteleis, which it
                                                may be, but cf. ON alls-endis); (fully, perfectly) fulla-; (totally,
                                                very) ala-; (at all, altogether, for/so/therefore) allis.

                                                VARIOUS "incidentally, by the way"
                                                For bonus marks, an idiomatic way of adding a parenthetical aside
                                                (such as the proximity of swine), or extra little detail (like an
                                                incidental character's name), is with the particles -uh þan, amongst
                                                its various other uses.

                                                aljaleiko(s) = "otherwise, differently" ("by the way" might be
                                                stretching it)

                                                For electricity, how about some derivative of *gles "amber", as in
                                                Pliny's Glesiae "amber isles" of the Baltic. I think this is how
                                                the Icelandic word is calqued, isn't it?

                                                *katus
                                                Or maybe *kattus < Late Lat. cattus. The other Germanic forms seem
                                                to be based on this.

                                                *hrabans > *hrabns?

                                                Llama Nom



                                                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I hope you don't mind if I just cut & paste from my files. I don't
                                                > have the time to collate the information at the time but I wanted
                                                to
                                                > make it available, so I'm sure if you comb through it it will
                                                become
                                                > lisible. (This stuff goes *way* back! -- of course everything from
                                                > before the switch to egroups/yahoogroups is lost sadly :/) Also I
                                                have
                                                > collected somewhere the Go. reconstructions Grimm formulated in his
                                                > teutonic mythology. I'll try to find those for the reconstructional
                                                > wordhoard.
                                                >
                                                > cheers,
                                                > Matthew
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ----
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Salo, David WISTR LAG WIGS RAIHTS, WRAIQS NU IST
                                                > Salo, David; Petersen, Christ stafs, stabeis "stave"
                                                > Salo, David bokastafs "letter, character"
                                                > Salo, David Duhwe skulja ik ija insaihwan? Hwa qithand ija
                                                thatei ik
                                                > skulja kunnan?
                                                > Gerritsen, René wulflus in hauhistjam guda jah ana
                                                airflai gawairfli in
                                                > mannam godis wiljins!
                                                > Taylor, Gerry Bokarei razdos gutiskaizos,
                                                > Skautland Scotland
                                                > Hweitei (wf) Whiteness; der. "hweits"
                                                > Aideinbaurgs (f) Edinburgh; to be declined like "baurgs".
                                                > Rafskulda (f) Electricity bill ("raf" as suggested by
                                                > others, skulda like
                                                > Icelandic skuld; Gothic skula = debtor)
                                                > Katus (m) Cat, from L. "catus"
                                                > Haurdilo (wf) Small door, hurdle, (cat-)flap; suggested
                                                > diminutive of
                                                > "haurds"
                                                > Bi thana wig By the way, incidentally (sorry!)
                                                > Taglisks (aj) Hairy, furry; der. tagl
                                                > Handgawaurhts Handmade
                                                >
                                                > Carver, Matthew cat-flap *katuhaurds.
                                                > hairy, furry = taglahs
                                                > Taylor, Gerry hilms taglahs = furry hat
                                                > hilms tagleins = fur hat
                                                > Carver, Matt ufariba = incidentally
                                                > telebisio, teibei, fairsaihwa, siunwairp = t.v.
                                                > Gerry T.
                                                > Waurdhuzd - vocabulary
                                                >
                                                > wissei (f) Science; cf mithwissei = conscience; Ger.
                                                > wissenschaft, Icel.
                                                > visindi
                                                > anglisks English
                                                > thiudisks German, der. thiud "people"; cf Ger. deutsch,
                                                Icel. thysk
                                                > bi allata Completely; cf bi sumata
                                                > afmuns (f) Randomness, chance; af + muns = design, plan
                                                > wau'rpilon Throw dice, der. wairpan = throw; cf Ger.
                                                wurfeln ?
                                                > der. werfen
                                                > anakanna'ins (f) Lecture, der. kannjan = make known; cf
                                                anakunnains = a
                                                > reading
                                                > ibnassus (m) Equation; attested in sense "evenness"; ibnaleiks
                                                = equal
                                                > bokabaurd (n) Blackboard (chalkboard); boka + baurd
                                                > frai'hna (f) Question, der. fraihnan; cf Ger. frage
                                                > bi fullata Fully; cf bi sumata
                                                > atwaurd (f) Statement; at + waurd
                                                > infrisahts (f) Imagination; in + frisahts = image
                                                >
                                                > O'Neill, Tim Gutanhaims "Goth-home"
                                                > sigisrohsn "victory-hall"
                                                > munthauhjodus "mouth-tumult"
                                                > luithareis "poet, skald, bard" [=liuth- (MC.)]
                                                > fagrstibns "sweet-voiced"
                                                > waurmleiko "serpentine"
                                                > dauhtrohsn "feast-hall"
                                                > daufs "deaf"
                                                > sidaleik "wonderful"
                                                > sifands "rejoicing"
                                                > filuwaurdein "much-speaking"
                                                > frijonskip "fellowing"
                                                > kaurnhus "granary, barn"
                                                > galgastads "gallows-place"
                                                > birodjan "talk"
                                                > runa-razda
                                                > ansa-waurda
                                                > badwsfaheths "battle-joy"
                                                > ahtaguma "ferocious warror"
                                                > huzdjan "hoard"
                                                > bandwjan "signify"
                                                > Kindahl, Tomas
                                                > by The Way = Aljaleiko
                                                > - "hrabans" < *hrabanaz > raven
                                                > - "huairbils" < *huerbilaz > vortex.
                                                > Salo, David Wulfastains = Wulfstan
                                                > lisan, lisands, lisjau, lista, etc.
                                                > kunjau, etc.
                                                > thaurban, etc.
                                                > gadaursands, etc.
                                                > nauhan, nauhands, nauhjau, nauhta, etc.
                                                > gamotan, gamosta, etc.
                                                > aihts, aiht, etc.
                                                >
                                                > ---
                                              • llama_nom
                                                ... Maybe -hliuþ, neuter a-stem, is better--even though the one attested example of this word is now thought to be a misreading, still it appears in some
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Feb 5, 2005
                                                  > > bihliuþs - umlaut
                                                  > > afhliuþs - ablaut
                                                  > > afhliudatewa - ablaut series

                                                  Maybe -hliuþ, neuter a-stem, is better--even though the one attested
                                                  example of this word is now thought to be a misreading, still it
                                                  appears in some dictionaries and would correspond to Norse hljo'ð.
                                                  Basic meaning, paradoxical: "sound" or "silence"!

                                                  Couple more suggestions:

                                                  *inwageins "emotion"
                                                  *uswageins "excitement"

                                                  cf. the relevant verbs.

                                                  j.s.fws. jah swa framwigis "and so on" (phrase actually
                                                  attested "and so thenceforth"; framwigis "henceforth, thenceforth")
                                                  = Icelandic j.s.fvs, og svo framvegis.

                                                  ktl. (Gk, kai ta loipa) = jah laibos = etc. / et cetera, "and the
                                                  rest..." (from the Skeireins)

                                                  But too many abbreviation could get confused with numbers.

                                                  Llama Nom





                                                  --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Llama Nom
                                                  >
                                                  > Nice done...I just thought of this myself some days ago, and now I
                                                  > wont need to think of this anymore :)
                                                  > But I miss two words, one for 'gender' and one for 'case'.
                                                  > I assume gender would be 'kunds' and case 'drusts', considering
                                                  what
                                                  > your words contain.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Some suggestions for grammar words I thought of a while back;
                                                  > assume
                                                  > > asterisks everywhere except gumakunds "male",
                                                  qinakunds "female",
                                                  > > samaqiss "agreement":
                                                  > >
                                                  > > waihtiwaurd - noun
                                                  > > tojawaurd - verb
                                                  > > hvileikawaurd - adjective
                                                  > > hvewaurd - adverb
                                                  > > faurwaurd - pronoun
                                                  > > frehawaurd - interrogative
                                                  > > raþjawaurd - numeral
                                                  > > particle - daili (or attested: drauhsna, gabruka, daila "piece
                                                  of
                                                  > > money, fellowship")
                                                  > >
                                                  > > gumakunds - masculine
                                                  > > qinakunds - feminine
                                                  > > nihvaþarakunds - neuter (half-calque on Latin)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > namnadrusts (nd.) - nominative
                                                  > > þuladrusts (þd.) - accusative
                                                  > > aiginadrusts (ad.) - genitive
                                                  > > gibadrusts (gd.) - dative
                                                  > > hvedrusts (hvd.) - intrumental
                                                  > >
                                                  > > afdrusts, ibdrusts?, halþs - oblique
                                                  > >
                                                  > > (Those owe a lot to Icelandic, except that they're nouns, but I
                                                  > > picked *gibadrusts, rather than *nimadrusts for the sake of
                                                  > > abbreviations, to avoid confusion over initials. Maybe the
                                                  > > adjective of nominative could be a past participle
                                                  *namnadrusans.)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > numel - present tense
                                                  > > faurmel - past tense, preterite (cf. faur mel "before time, in
                                                  > > advance"; faur "ago, past"; or like Icelandic *þanmel, but this
                                                  > > would make it harder to translate Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's
                                                  > Rainbow
                                                  > > into Gothic...)
                                                  > > anawairþamel - future tense
                                                  > >
                                                  > > spillamodei - indicative mood
                                                  > > untriggwamodei - subjunctive
                                                  > > = wiljamodei - optative
                                                  > > tojastibna - active voice
                                                  > > þulastibna - passive voice
                                                  > >
                                                  > > samaqiss - agreement
                                                  > >
                                                  > > relative particle - kunjando daili
                                                  > > compund word - gagahaftiþ waurd
                                                  > > conjunction - bindawaurd
                                                  > >
                                                  > > bihliuþs - umlaut
                                                  > > afhliuþs - ablaut
                                                  > > afhliudatewa - ablaut series
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Incidentally, has anyone noticed whether Gothic has any tendency
                                                  to
                                                  > > agree more with North or West Germanic in words of doubtful
                                                  > gender?
                                                  > > All the examples I can think of are unclear in Gothic, due to
                                                  lack
                                                  > > of attested forms: dal(s), biuþ(s), lubi/lubja.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Llama Nom
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > PS. here's something I discovered last night:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > http://www.dike.de/pfr-tischner/22-spr/ht-germ/krimgot.htm
                                                  > >
                                                  > > A "complete etymological dictionary of Crimean Gothic", with
                                                  > > speculations on pronunciation.
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@y...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > My domain matthewcarver.com is in limbo right now... the old
                                                  > credit
                                                  > > > card it was drawing from expired and they were sending notices
                                                  to
                                                  > a
                                                  > > > defunct email address. i'm waiting for another month i think.
                                                  > > anyway i
                                                  > > > still have the files on my storage disk. funny, i had
                                                  forgotten
                                                  > > about
                                                  > > > stormloader until a few months ago. don't think i remember the
                                                  > > > password or username for changing the files. :) i could repost
                                                  > the
                                                  > > old
                                                  > > > neologisms i gathered from the first few hundred posts of this
                                                  > > list if
                                                  > > > you're interested...
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > -Matthew
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > > Some other sources for neologisms:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/goth/kuni/
                                                  > > > > http://members.aol.com/yahyam/BagmeBloma.html
                                                  > > > > http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/
                                                  > > > > http://matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > The last is Matthew's newer site, but unfortunately it
                                                  doesn't
                                                  > > seem
                                                  > > > > to be working these days. It had some fun stuff composed by
                                                  > > members
                                                  > > > > of this list, long before I joined. His old site also has
                                                  > > Tolkien's
                                                  > > > > Bagme Bloma. (Re which: wagjand lindos seems more like it
                                                  > ought
                                                  > > to
                                                  > > > > be "they shake lindens/shields?" than "...gently". And
                                                  > > fraujinon
                                                  > > > > takes dative, so: fraujinondei fairgunja -- which wrecks the
                                                  > > rhyme
                                                  > > > > scheme, I know...) There is a newer corrected version of
                                                  Tim
                                                  > > > > O'Neil's Wulfila Poem here:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Post/226178
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Llama Nom
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts@h...>
                                                  > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Thanx...
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > That seems to be a quite good idea, to collect neologisms
                                                  > from
                                                  > > > > > different persons...
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom"
                                                  <600cell@o...>
                                                  > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Excellent stuff, Fredrik!
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > I just looked at the dictionary. When I have time I'll
                                                  > > extract
                                                  > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > approximately 20 neologisms from my English-Gothic
                                                  > > dictionary
                                                  > > > > for
                                                  > > > > > > you. If this is okay with Francisc, it would be good to
                                                  > > include
                                                  > > > > > his
                                                  > > > > > > creations and make a really big combined effort. >
                                                  > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik"
                                                  <gadrauhts@h...>
                                                  > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > I totaly agree with anuþs instead of anuds. And with d
                                                  in
                                                  > > > > plural
                                                  > > > > > > and
                                                  > > > > > > > some cases in singular. The similarity with 'anus'
                                                  that
                                                  > > some
                                                  > > > > > > > mentioned ain't that shocking. If I remember right
                                                  that
                                                  > > word
                                                  > > > > > > > means 'ring', and what is shocking about that, (except
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > > > obvious
                                                  > > > > > > > reason)?
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > I read the post 1223 and found that very interesting.
                                                  A
                                                  > > lot of
                                                  > > > > > > those
                                                  > > > > > > > words are similar to neologisms I "made" myself.
                                                  > > > > > > > Such words as potato and strawberry are the same as I
                                                  > > thought
                                                  > > > > of.
                                                  > > > > > > > I don't think I've seen any word for nut anywhere som
                                                  > > guess it
                                                  > > > > > > would
                                                  > > > > > > > be like hnutus or something like that, (don't know
                                                  which
                                                  > > > > gender).
                                                  > > > > > > To
                                                  > > > > > > > continue the same way of making the words of potato
                                                  and
                                                  > > > > stawberry
                                                  > > > > > > > with the word aírþa- as first part, I'd like to add
                                                  the
                                                  > > word
                                                  > > > > > > > aírþahnutus as peanut. (swedish: jordnöt = peanut).
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and
                                                  i
                                                  > > > > thought
                                                  > > > > > > of
                                                  > > > > > > > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > I have a list of neologisms (and some, maybe 5 non
                                                  > > neologisms)
                                                  > > > > if
                                                  > > > > > > > some one is interested. I guess some are not that well
                                                  > > done,
                                                  > > > > cos
                                                  > > > > > I
                                                  > > > > > > > made em when I wasn't that good at this. But I hope
                                                  you
                                                  > > can
                                                  > > > > tell
                                                  > > > > > > me
                                                  > > > > > > > corrections.
                                                  > > > > > > > It's on a website that is:
                                                  > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/gutiska/lex/neologism.html
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > /Fredrik
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom"
                                                  > > <600cell@o...>
                                                  > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Oscar,
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Ni ibnaleik ak galeik! ("Not equal, but similar", to
                                                  > > > > paraphrase
                                                  > > > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > > > Skeireins...) Ahaks "pigeon". Anaks "suddenly".
                                                  But
                                                  > > > > alright
                                                  > > > > > > for
                                                  > > > > > > > > alliteration, oh dear:
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Nu skulum namnjan
                                                  > > > > > > > > namna fugle,
                                                  > > > > > > > > anuþ jah ahak,
                                                  > > > > > > > > all þatei fliugiþ,
                                                  > > > > > > > > hrabn hrukjandan,
                                                  > > > > > > > > hraiwadubon,
                                                  > > > > > > > > aran swaswe agatja,
                                                  > > > > > > > > airþabundanana hanan.
                                                  > > > > > > > > Gauros gansuns
                                                  > > > > > > > > goljand sik uhtwon.
                                                  > > > > > > > > Falka sa frija
                                                  > > > > > > > > ufar fulþon galaiþ,
                                                  > > > > > > > > unafswaggwiþs
                                                  > > > > > > > > sweþauh waijiþ.
                                                  > > > > > > > > Sparwan, sparwari
                                                  > > > > > > > > bi spedistin qiþa.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Fredrik,
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Looks good to me. I'd wondered about this word ages
                                                  > > ago,
                                                  > > > > > before
                                                  > > > > > > I
                                                  > > > > > > > > had access to all these great dictionaries on the
                                                  > > internet.
                                                  > > > > I
                                                  > > > > > > > can't
                                                  > > > > > > > > remember what conclusion I reached, if any, but I
                                                  > didn't
                                                  > > > > know
                                                  > > > > > > about
                                                  > > > > > > > > the Lithuanian cognate then--which I think is what
                                                  > > suggests
                                                  > > > > an
                                                  > > > > > i-
                                                  > > > > > > > > stem. Makes a nice addition to our Gothic
                                                  vocabulary!
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > The normal practice is to change -d to -þ at the end
                                                  of
                                                  > > a
                                                  > > > > word
                                                  > > > > > > or
                                                  > > > > > > > > before -s, but sometimes the -d was written as
                                                  such.
                                                  > > E.g.
                                                  > > > > gods
                                                  > > > > > > &
                                                  > > > > > > > > goþs both occur, and by chance the former is
                                                  actually
                                                  > > more
                                                  > > > > > > common.
                                                  > > > > > > > > Apparently such spellings are most often found in
                                                  > > certain
                                                  > > > > > > specific
                                                  > > > > > > > > sections of the Bible, e.g. Luke's gospel.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Oh and on the subject of reconstructing vocabulary,
                                                  you
                                                  > > > > might
                                                  > > > > > be
                                                  > > > > > > > > interested in Post 1223, a very early message from
                                                  > > Francisc
                                                  > > > > > > which I
                                                  > > > > > > > > came across recently. Especially the ingenious
                                                  lists
                                                  > of
                                                  > > > > > > chemical
                                                  > > > > > > > > and geographical terms.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > The Cleasby & Vigfusson Icelandic-English Dictionary
                                                  > has
                                                  > > > > some
                                                  > > > > > > > > interesting comments on Gothic, including at least
                                                  one
                                                  > > > > probable
                                                  > > > > > > > loan-
                                                  > > > > > > > > word into Old Spanish, not listed in Koebler:
                                                  > > > > *brano "heifer"
                                                  > > > > > > > (young
                                                  > > > > > > > > female cow) = OIc. brana.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > And finally, Francisc,
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Good work on the Crossword! I've added your
                                                  guesses.
                                                  > I
                                                  > > > > hope
                                                  > > > > > it
                                                  > > > > > > > > isn't making anyone too cross yet...
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Llama Nom
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA
                                                  > > > > <duke.co@s...>
                                                  > > > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > waila,so waurd anaks(pigeons) samaleika ist...
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Fredrik <gadrauhts@h...> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Hi all!
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > I don't do much so i think about words in gothic
                                                  > which
                                                  > > i
                                                  > > > > > > cannot
                                                  > > > > > > > > find
                                                  > > > > > > > > > in any dicctionary. Now it's the gothic word for
                                                  > duck.
                                                  > > I
                                                  > > > > have
                                                  > > > > > > > > > searched for it in all dicctionaries I know about
                                                  on
                                                  > > > > internet
                                                  > > > > > > but
                                                  > > > > > > > > > without finding any so i took the freedom to
                                                  recreate
                                                  > > it
                                                  > > > > > > instead.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > I wonder if you think this is ok or if not.
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > The word in swedish is 'and' (or in another
                                                  > > form 'anka')
                                                  > > > > and
                                                  > > > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > > > > german is 'ente'. Acording to some books and
                                                  > > dicctionaries
                                                  > > > > > > (like
                                                  > > > > > > > > > runeberg.org) this comes from *anuðiz.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > I guess this would have been 'anuds' in gothic,
                                                  and
                                                  > an
                                                  > > i-
                                                  > > > > stem.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > The icelandic önd and the german ente is both
                                                  > feminine
                                                  > > so
                                                  > > > > > > > > therefore
                                                  > > > > > > > > > I guess the gothic word also is feminine.
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Comments please!
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > /Fredrik
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
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                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                  removed]
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