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Some Gothic links, Dictionaries, learning resources, etc.

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  • llama_nom
    Here are some Gothic links which I ve found helpful and interesting, including some Francisc mentioned. I m surprised we don t have a selection of such links
    Message 1 of 15 , May 13, 2004
      Here are some Gothic links which I've found helpful and interesting,
      including some Francisc mentioned. I'm surprised we don't have a
      selection of such links in the LINKS section of gothic-l. I'm not
      quite sure how to add them though... Some other excellent addresses
      not included here can be found at: http://www.reimar.de/gotisch.html

      TEXTS

      The Wulfila Project: online searchable Gothic corpus + online edition
      of Streitberg's "Gotisches Elementarbuch" (minus the section on
      Syntax, for copyright reasons...)
      http://www.wulfila.be

      The Skeireins Project: some of the smaller fragments of Gothic which
      have survived, including the Skeireins + multiple translations:
      http://germa.germsem.uni-kiel.de/gotisch/gotisch.html

      Titus Project: huge collection of Indo-European texts, including the
      Gothic corpus (click on "text database" in the right window)
      http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de/indexe.htm


      DICTIONARIES, etc.

      Gerhard Koebler (Gothic and other dictionaries, including Old Norse,
      Old Saxon, Old English, Old High German, Old Frisian, etc.)
      http://www.koeblergerhard.de/publikat.html

      Sean Christ's Indo-European Language Resources: a wealth of material
      including Heyne's dictionary (Gothic-German), Balg's 'Comparative
      Glossary of the Gothic Language', Wright's 'Grammar of the Gothic
      Language' & Braune's 'Gotische Grammatik' + grammars and dictionaries
      for Old Icelandic, Old English, and many more...
      http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/germanic/language_resources.html

      Gothic-German glossary (from Lehrbuch der Gotischen Sprache, Johannes
      Friedrich) http://craven.hypermart.net/Gothic.txt

      Gothic Names (Tim O'Neill: list of name elements, meanings and Old
      English equivalents)
      http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/2385/gothnames.html

      Crimean Gothic Wordlist
      http://www.geocities.com/erwan-ar-skoul/gothmod.htm

      My own still highly imperfect and constantly under revision English-
      Gothic dictionary--use at your peril...
      http://freespace.virgin.net/o.e/egd/egdhome.html


      MODERN WRITING IN GOTHIC

      The Gotish Tongue Website (Matthew Carver: poems, riddles,
      Tolkien's "Bagme Bloma") http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda

      The Gothic Heathen Homepage (Albareiks: history, religion, modern
      poems in Gothic) http://www.angelfire.com/goth/kuni/


      MISCELLANEOUS

      Database of the Gothic Language (Manuscripts, digitising the Codex
      Argenteus) http://www.cs.tut.fi/~dla/gothic.html

      Reimar's Gothic Links (in German)
      http://www.reimar.de/gotisch.html

      Gothic Book List
      http://www.the-orb-net/wemsk/gothicwemsk.html

      Results for "Gothic" on MavicaNET Multilingual Search Catalog
      http://www.mavicanet.com/directory/eng/1350.html?iss=0

      A gentle "introduction to Gothic" with graded lessons by David Salo:
      http://members.terracom.net/~dorothea/david/gothic/

      ...and in German, adapted by Jens Vorbrink:
      http://www.gotisch.de/


      Hope there's something of use in amongst that lot...

      Llama Nom



      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...>
      wrote:
      > As far as I know, te best Gothic dictionary available for free on
      the
      > web is Koebler's "Gotisches Woertebuch" (Gothic -
      > German/English/Greek/Latin, with German-Gothic, English-Gothic,
      Latin-
      > Gothic and Greek-Gothic finder):
      > http://homepage.uibk.ac.at/homepage/c303/c30310/gotwbhin.html
      > Other, less elaborate Gothic dictionaries available freely on the
      web
      > are:
      > Wright's Gothic Glossary (Gothic-English):
      >
      http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/germanic/goth_wright_glossary.html
      > Eric Craven's Gothic-German Glossary:
      > http://craven.hypermart.net/Gothic.txt
      > (not accessible at this moment)
      > Kunhihuzd (Tim O'Neill's page on Gothic names):
      > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/2385/gothnames.html
      > Crimean Gothic - English Glossary:
      > http://www.geocities.com/erwan-ar-skoul/gothmod.htm
      > I hope this helps.
      > Best regards,
      > Francisc
      >
      >
      > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Williams
      > <corbeau_13_2000@y...> wrote:
      > > Does anyone know where to get a Gothic language dictionary? I
      would
      > love to learn the language since I'm also trying to pick up
      learning
      > German & Norwegian. Much thanks to anyone who can help.
      > >
      > ]
    • faltin2001
      ... I guess Gothic nauths is related to mod. German Not/Noetig , when we say es tut Not meaning it is necessary . ... Gothic thaurfts is probably
      Message 2 of 15 , May 13, 2004
        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <penterakt@f...> wrote:
        >
        > Hailai sijuth!
        >
        > And another alternative: nauths ist, literally "there is a need",



        I guess Gothic 'nauths' is related to mod. German 'Not/Noetig', when
        we say 'es tut Not' meaning 'it is necessary'.








        > works the same way as: thaurfts ist (with thaurfts here being the
        > noun).



        Gothic 'thaurfts' is probably related to mod. German 'Be -
        darf/Duerftig', which also indicates that something is necessary.



        > Skuld- (apart from being the past tense of skulan) is used in two
        > ways, with different meanings: 1) as an adjective, agreeing with
        the
        > nominative subject, and 2) impersonally as a neuter adjective +dat.
        >
        > "PASSIVE" skulds ist +inf. "one must be"
        > "ACTIVE" skuld ist (+dat.) +inf. "one must" or "one is allowed to"
        or
        > more literally "it is permissible [for one] to"
        > ni skuld ist (+dat.) +inf. "it is not permissible [for one] to"




        Gothic 'skulds' is is probably related to mod. German 'Schuld'.


        Just guessing around ...

        Cheers
        Dirk
      • llama_nom
        ... when ... Right on all counts, I think. Also, Skuld, the name of a norn... Llama Nom
        Message 3 of 15 , May 14, 2004
          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:

          >
          > I guess Gothic 'nauths' is related to mod. German 'Not/Noetig',
          when
          > we say 'es tut Not' meaning 'it is necessary'.
          >
          > Gothic 'thaurfts' is probably related to mod. German 'Be -
          > darf/Duerftig', which also indicates that something is necessary.
          >
          > > Gothic 'skulds' is is probably related to mod. German 'Schuld'.

          > Just guessing around ...
          >
          > Cheers
          > Dirk

          Right on all counts, I think. Also, Skuld, the name of a norn...

          Llama Nom
        • cheyenne nicole
          llama_nom wrote: Here are some Gothic links which I ve found helpful and interesting, including some Francisc mentioned. I m surprised
          Message 4 of 15 , May 16, 2004
            llama_nom <penterakt@...> wrote:
            Here are some Gothic links which I've found helpful and interesting,
            including some Francisc mentioned. I'm surprised we don't have a
            selection of such links in the LINKS section of gothic-l. I'm not
            quite sure how to add them though... Some other excellent addresses
            not included here can be found at: http://www.reimar.de/gotisch.html

            TEXTS

            The Wulfila Project: online searchable Gothic corpus + online edition
            of Streitberg's "Gotisches Elementarbuch" (minus the section on
            Syntax, for copyright reasons...)
            http://www.wulfila.be

            The Skeireins Project: some of the smaller fragments of Gothic which
            have survived, including the Skeireins + multiple translations:
            http://germa.germsem.uni-kiel.de/gotisch/gotisch.html

            Titus Project: huge collection of Indo-European texts, including the
            Gothic corpus (click on "text database" in the right window)
            http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de/indexe.htm


            DICTIONARIES, etc.

            Gerhard Koebler (Gothic and other dictionaries, including Old Norse,
            Old Saxon, Old English, Old High German, Old Frisian, etc.)
            http://www.koeblergerhard.de/publikat.html

            Sean Christ's Indo-European Language Resources: a wealth of material
            including Heyne's dictionary (Gothic-German), Balg's 'Comparative
            Glossary of the Gothic Language', Wright's 'Grammar of the Gothic
            Language' & Braune's 'Gotische Grammatik' + grammars and dictionaries
            for Old Icelandic, Old English, and many more...
            http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/germanic/language_resources.html

            Gothic-German glossary (from Lehrbuch der Gotischen Sprache, Johannes
            Friedrich) http://craven.hypermart.net/Gothic.txt

            Gothic Names (Tim O'Neill: list of name elements, meanings and Old
            English equivalents)
            http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/2385/gothnames.html

            Crimean Gothic Wordlist
            http://www.geocities.com/erwan-ar-skoul/gothmod.htm

            My own still highly imperfect and constantly under revision English-
            Gothic dictionary--use at your peril...
            http://freespace.virgin.net/o.e/egd/egdhome.html


            MODERN WRITING IN GOTHIC

            The Gotish Tongue Website (Matthew Carver: poems, riddles,
            Tolkien's "Bagme Bloma") http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda

            The Gothic Heathen Homepage (Albareiks: history, religion, modern
            poems in Gothic) http://www.angelfire.com/goth/kuni/


            MISCELLANEOUS

            Database of the Gothic Language (Manuscripts, digitising the Codex
            Argenteus) http://www.cs.tut.fi/~dla/gothic.html

            Reimar's Gothic Links (in German)
            http://www.reimar.de/gotisch.html

            Gothic Book List
            http://www.the-orb-net/wemsk/gothicwemsk.html

            Results for "Gothic" on MavicaNET Multilingual Search Catalog
            http://www.mavicanet.com/directory/eng/1350.html?iss=0

            A gentle "introduction to Gothic" with graded lessons by David Salo:
            http://members.terracom.net/~dorothea/david/gothic/

            ...and in German, adapted by Jens Vorbrink:
            http://www.gotisch.de/


            Hope there's something of use in amongst that lot...

            Llama Nom



            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor"
            wrote:
            > As far as I know, te best Gothic dictionary available for free on
            the
            > web is Koebler's "Gotisches Woertebuch" (Gothic -
            > German/English/Greek/Latin, with German-Gothic, English-Gothic,
            Latin-
            > Gothic and Greek-Gothic finder):
            > http://homepage.uibk.ac.at/homepage/c303/c30310/gotwbhin.html
            > Other, less elaborate Gothic dictionaries available freely on the
            web
            > are:
            > Wright's Gothic Glossary (Gothic-English):
            >
            http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/germanic/goth_wright_glossary.html
            > Eric Craven's Gothic-German Glossary:
            > http://craven.hypermart.net/Gothic.txt
            > (not accessible at this moment)
            > Kunhihuzd (Tim O'Neill's page on Gothic names):
            > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/2385/gothnames.html
            > Crimean Gothic - English Glossary:
            > http://www.geocities.com/erwan-ar-skoul/gothmod.htm
            > I hope this helps.
            > Best regards,
            > Francisc
            >
            >
            > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Williams
            > wrote:
            > > Does anyone know where to get a Gothic language dictionary? I
            would
            > love to learn the language since I'm also trying to pick up
            learning
            > German & Norwegian. Much thanks to anyone who can help.
            > >
            > ]




            You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to .
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            Thank you for helping me,i don't get alot of help. This will help me alot.



            Cheyenne

            ---------------------------------
            Do you Yahoo!?
            SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • llama_nom
            And just when I thought I understood this, here is an alternate view on SKULD. In this article, SKULD, in the phrase _skuldu ist_, is characterised as
            Message 5 of 15 , May 21, 2004
              And just when I thought I understood this, here is an alternate view
              on SKULD. In this article, SKULD, in the phrase _skuldu ist_, is
              characterised as belonging to a class of "predicate nouns with modal
              meaning" - "Indo-European Syntactic Rules & Gothic Morphology", by
              Vyacheslav V Ivanov, p. 11).

              http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/pies/pdfs/IESV/1/VVI_Gothic_syntax.pdf

              I'm not sure how you'd distinguish between a neuter noun and a neuter
              adjective used in this way. Wright saw it as an adjective. Koebler
              has the adjective SKULDS, but lists instances under the headword of
              the verb SKULAN, of which SKULDS is the past participle. Though he
              does have a noun *skuld, it is treated as strictly hypothetical.

              Either way, an interesting article on Gothic & IE syntax.

              Llama Nom



              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <penterakt@f...> wrote:
              >
              > Hailai sijuth!
              >
              > And another alternative: nauths ist, literally "there is a need",
              > works the same way as: thaurfts ist (with thaurfts here being the
              > noun). With each, the thing needed is genitive. As a verb,
              thaurban
              > = "need", while skulan = "must, shall", with implications of
              > obligation, but also used to make a compound future tense, where
              the
              > simple present might not be specific enough. Hey is everyone else
              > doing what I'm doing and typing some Gothic phrase into Google to
              > bypass the "Wulfila Project down for repairs" screen?
              >
              > Skuld- (apart from being the past tense of skulan) is used in two
              > ways, with different meanings: 1) as an adjective, agreeing with
              the
              > nominative subject, and 2) impersonally as a neuter adjective +dat.
              >
              > "PASSIVE" skulds ist +inf. "one must be"
              > "ACTIVE" skuld ist (+dat.) +inf. "one must" or "one is allowed to"
              or
              > more literally "it is permissible [for one] to"
              > ni skuld ist (+dat.) +inf. "it is not permissible [for one] to"
              >
              > "Passive" and "active" might be slightly confusing labels, in the
              > context, but the examples should make it clear. For the former,
              see
              > L 9,44 skulds ist...atgiban "MUST BE handed over"; and for the
              latter
              > Mk 10,2 skuldu sijai mann qen afsatjan? "is a man ALLOWED TO
              divorce
              > his wife?" and 1Cor 6,15 skuld auk ist thata riurjo gahamon
              > unriurein "for that which is perishable MUST clothe itself with the
              > imperishable".
              >
              > (This works even in 2 Cor 5,10, if you remember that
              ataugjan 'show'
              > has, when used passively, the special sense of "appear" as well
              > as "show oneself"--allai weis ataugjan skuldai sijum "we must all
              > appear".)
              >
              > So with our hypothetical example: skulum galeithan "we should
              leave",
              > but: skuld ist unsis galeithan "we are allowed to leave", or to
              > reverse it: skuldai sijum bileithan "we must be left", and in the
              > past: skuldai wesum bileithan [fram im] "we should have been left
              [by
              > them]". Or to deny it: ni skuld ist unsis galeithan "we aren't
              > allowed to go", or if optional, ni thaurbum galeithan "we don't
              need
              > to go". To query: skuldu ist unsis galeithan? "are we allowed to
              > go?"; niu skuld ist? "aren't we allowed?"; skulumu galeithan "do we
              > have to go?"; or: ibai skulum galeithan "do we really have to go?"
              > Or if we just don't give a damn: ni waiht wulthrais ist unsis
              hwathar
              > galeithaima thau ni galeithaima "it's of no importance to us
              whether
              > we go or not!"
              >
              > Llama Nom
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "ashley overs"
              > <ashlovers_12344@h...> wrote:
              > > thanks it realy helps me.
              > >
              > >
              > > >From: matthew carver <me@m...>
              > > >Reply-To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
              > > >To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
              > > >Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Re: Gothic equivalent for English 'must'
              > > >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:30:17 -0700
              > > >
              > > >hails!
              > > >
              > > >also there i believe is the possibility of
              > > >the construction "skulds ist (+DAT)"
              > > >meaning it is owing, lawful. Thaurfts
              > > >from tharf- has the meaning of necessity,
              > > >obligation. I thought these were impersonal
              > > >constructions requiring a dative. Where
              > > >does the phrase with thaurfts occur in the
              > > >gothic bible as a modal or auxiliary verb?
              > > >
              > > >-matthew
              > > >
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