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Re: Bastarnae

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  • faltin2001
    I cross-post this from the Germanic-L Ever since the Poienesti-Lukashevka culture (situated at the lower Danube and the Black Sea coast, East Carpathian
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 30, 2004
      I cross-post this from the Germanic-L

      Ever since the Poienesti-Lukashevka culture (situated at the lower
      Danube and the Black Sea coast, East Carpathian mountains and the
      Dnestr river) was discovered it had been linked with the Bastarnae.
      Today this link is widely accepted. A recent article on the Poienesti-
      Lukashevka culture (P-L) in the RGA reiterated the point. The P-L
      culture started in the 2-1st centuries BC. Because of its
      relationship to north-central Europe it can be synchronised with the
      period Hachmann's younger pre-Roman iron age.

      The RGA article mentions the possibility of an authochton
      development, which was originally favoured by some Rumanian and
      Soviet archaeologists, but states that this is conclusively disproven
      today. Instead the culture is the result of migrations from northern
      Europe. The RGA article than discusses a whole range of artefacts and
      concludes that the centre of origin was the Jastorf area (p 235 in
      the P volume), especially the area between Elbe and Oder, but groups
      from the Danish isles might also have been included. The RGA article
      states that there is agreement today that the socalled Gubener Gruppe
      in the Lower Lausitz (Germany south-east of Berlin) was the key
      contributer to the P-L culture. Overall, the article states, this was
      not a one-time migration but a slow shift of people and cultural
      characteristics from the Lower-Elbe to Oder region towards the Black
      Sea. The artefacts show that the main line of communication ran along
      Oder/Warthe - Vistula - Bug - Dniestr. The process also involved East
      Germanic elements. The first layer of P-L artefacts and grave
      assemblages is very uniform which leads to believe that the
      migrations took place at roughly the same period.

      To return to the question of identification of the P-L culture with
      the Bastarnae, the RGA article states that attempts, mainly by R.
      Vulpe to see the Bastarnae in the Pommersche Culture have failed.
      Instead, the P-L culture was described by Wenskus as evidence for the
      first south east expansion of Elbe-Suevic groups, which likely
      included the Bastarnae and Skirians. The RGA article stresses again
      the close correspondence between the historical sources (Strabon VII,
      3, 13; Ptolemy (III, 5,7) which place the Bastarnae or their sub-
      tribes like Atmonen, Sidonen, Peukiner, in the relevant areas. Greek
      sources mention the Bastarnae as newcomers and there Germanic
      ethnicity was stressed by Strabon.

      Cheers,

      Dirk









      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "hrafnsnest" <wulfsligrs@c...> wrote:
      > Hi Tore,
      >
      > I saw the article and arguments on the GMC list, and I don't buy
      it.
      > Although I suppose the argument could be made that the
      Mediterranean
      > scripts (Latin, Greek, asf.) were derived from the Semitic
      > Phoenicians, and if the GMC runes were derived from the N. Italic,
      or
      > for that matter, Greek, then by proxy......... I'm still looking
      NNW
      > of the Black Sea, something extraordinary occured there between the
      > pre-CE GMC tribes and the Scytho-Greek-Celtic culture complex (by
      > whatever name the archeaologists call it).
      >
      > Skal,
      > Valulfr
      >
      >
      > > Hi Valufr,
      > > I hope you read Troengs recent article
      > >
      >
      http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/utdragfornvnnen_/runessemicorig/defaul
      > t.htm
      > >
      > > It stirred up quite a lot of arguments on Germanic-L
      > >
      > > Tore
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