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Re: [gothic-l] Re: Gothic genealogy

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  • gerald baker
    I once knew a Mari Andersson, a Sioux City native now living in California, who said she found out in Sweden that she was a descendant of the Ostrogothic king
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 8, 2004
      I once knew a Mari Andersson, a Sioux City native now
      living in California, who said she found out in Sweden
      that she was a descendant of the Ostrogothic king
      Theodoric, also known as "Dietrich von Bern." I
      expressed skepticism in a letter, and she never
      replied to it.

      Dietrich, whose "Bern" was really Verona, defeated
      Odoacer at the "Ravensburg," (Ravenna), and became
      King of Italy. I have no idea of whether or not either
      of them, or Alaric, had any descendants.

      Gerald Baker
      Cedar Falls, Iowa

      --- S�ren_Larsen <sohela@...> wrote:
      > faltin2001 wrote:
      > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Le Bateman"
      > <LeBateman@N...> wrote:
      > >> I had been doing research on a number of
      > branchs of my family,
      > > especially
      > >> the Wyatts.
      > >> They are descended from some of the later Roman
      > Emperors. Were these
      > >> Emperors
      > >> descended from Alraiks line?. Or Odeacer. Where
      > can I locate
      > > information on
      > >> these
      > >> lines?
      > >> Le
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Le,
      > >
      > > you should be very sceptical about these
      > (internet) geneologies
      > > linking families to Roman emperors and all sorts
      > of real (and
      > > invented) kings. The decendence of most, if not
      > all Roman Emperors is
      > > largely unknown and no present day family can
      > seriously be linked to
      > > any of them. The same is even more correct for
      > Odoacer and Alaric.
      > >
      >
      > Although I totally agree with the gist of your
      > message I am
      > really curious to know how it "is even more true for
      > Odoacer
      > and Alaric"?
      >
      > Cheers
      > Soren Larsen
      >
      >


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    • gerald baker
      Many years ago, I read something by HR Trevor-Roper that mentioned that two of the Imperial families of Roman Byzantium were Palaeologus and Cantacuzene. I
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
        Many years ago, I read something by HR Trevor-Roper
        that mentioned that two of the Imperial families of
        Roman Byzantium were Palaeologus and Cantacuzene. I
        also remember that in a (1962?) movie, "La Dolce
        Vita," there was a "Princess Cantacuzene," of Rumania,
        who was a stripper. I assumed she was a descendant of
        that Byzantine family, but don't really know for
        sure. G.B.


        --- faltin2001 <dirk@...> wrote:
        > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, S�ren Larsen
        > <sohela@m...> wrote:
        > > faltin2001 wrote:
        > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Le Bateman"
        > <LeBateman@N...>
        > wrote:
        > > >> I had been doing research on a number of
        > branchs of my family,
        > > > especially
        > > >> the Wyatts.
        > > >> They are descended from some of the later Roman
        > Emperors. Were
        > these
        > > >> Emperors
        > > >> descended from Alraiks line?. Or Odeacer. Where
        > can I locate
        > > > information on
        > > >> these
        > > >> lines?
        > > >> Le
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi Le,
        > > >
        > > > you should be very sceptical about these
        > (internet) geneologies
        > > > linking families to Roman emperors and all sorts
        > of real (and
        > > > invented) kings. The decendence of most, if not
        > all Roman
        > Emperors is
        > > > largely unknown and no present day family can
        > seriously be linked
        > to
        > > > any of them. The same is even more correct for
        > Odoacer and Alaric.
        > > >
        > >
        > > Although I totally agree with the gist of your
        > message I am
        > > really curious to know how it "is even more true
        > for Odoacer
        > > and Alaric"?
        > >
        >
        >
        > Dunno ... just a matter of carless formulation. I
        > should have
        > said 'just as true'. But then again, for Odoacer we
        > know that he had
        > a son who was killed with him and Alaric might have
        > had a daughter
        > who married Ataulf, but I think not much more is
        > known about his. For
        > some of the late Roman emperors we might have a
        > little bit more
        > information.
        >
        > Cheers
        > Dirk
        >
        >
        >
        > > Cheers
        > > Soren Larsen
        >
        >


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      • faltin2001
        ... tenuous ... your ... more ... Hi FX the idea that modern geneologies could be linked to Roman emperors and Germanic kings like Alaric etc. is so strange
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 15, 2004
          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Fern <visigoth@a...> wrote:
          > To Faltin 2001:
          >
          > I would agree with your general caveat of being skeptical about
          > "internet genealogies", in fact, I am weary of a great deal of
          > unsubstantiated information on the net.
          >
          > Nonetheless, though "prima facie" your notion concerning the
          tenuous
          > nature of Roman Imperial genealogies might sound acceptable to most
          > individuals, it would be wonderful to read a substantial defense of
          your
          > conclusions (especially of your assertion that: "The same is even
          more
          > correct ((?sic)) for Odoacer and Alaric.")
          >
          > FX




          Hi FX

          the idea that modern geneologies could be linked to Roman emperors
          and Germanic kings like Alaric etc. is so strange that the burden of
          proof is squarely on those wishing to make such claims.

          Cheers,
          Dirk









          >
          >
          >
          > faltin2001 wrote:
          >
          > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Le Bateman" <LeBateman@N...>
          wrote:
          > > > I had been doing research on a number of branchs of my family,
          > > especially
          > > > the Wyatts.
          > > > They are descended from some of the later Roman Emperors. Were
          these
          > > > Emperors
          > > > descended from Alraiks line?. Or Odeacer. Where can I locate
          > > information on
          > > > these
          > > > lines?
          > > > Le
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Le,
          > >
          > > you should be very sceptical about these (internet) geneologies
          > > linking families to Roman emperors and all sorts of real (and
          > > invented) kings. The decendence of most, if not all Roman
          Emperors is
          > > largely unknown and no present day family can seriously be linked
          to
          > > any of them. The same is even more correct for Odoacer and Alaric.
          > >
          > > Cheers
          > > Dirk
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a
          blank
          > > email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
          > >
          > >
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          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Francisc Czobor
          There were some boyars (noblemen) and princes in my country, Rumania, named Cantacuzino (French version: Cantacuzene ), who indeed were descendants of the
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 16, 2004
            There were some boyars (noblemen) and princes in my country, Rumania,
            named Cantacuzino (French version: "Cantacuzene"), who indeed were
            descendants of the Byzantine imperial family. But the stripper of "La
            Dolce Vita" - I don't know.

            Francisc

            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, gerald baker <glbaker50613@y...>
            wrote:
            > Many years ago, I read something by HR Trevor-Roper
            > that mentioned that two of the Imperial families of
            > Roman Byzantium were Palaeologus and Cantacuzene. I
            > also remember that in a (1962?) movie, "La Dolce
            > Vita," there was a "Princess Cantacuzene," of Rumania,
            > who was a stripper. I assumed she was a descendant of
            > that Byzantine family, but don't really know for
            > sure. G.B.
            >
            >
            > --- faltin2001 <dirk@s...> wrote:
            > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Søren Larsen
            > > <sohela@m...> wrote:
            > > > faltin2001 wrote:
            > > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Le Bateman"
            > > <LeBateman@N...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > >> I had been doing research on a number of
            > > branchs of my family,
            > > > > especially
            > > > >> the Wyatts.
            > > > >> They are descended from some of the later Roman
            > > Emperors. Were
            > > these
            > > > >> Emperors
            > > > >> descended from Alraiks line?. Or Odeacer. Where
            > > can I locate
            > > > > information on
            > > > >> these
            > > > >> lines?
            > > > >> Le
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi Le,
            > > > >
            > > > > you should be very sceptical about these
            > > (internet) geneologies
            > > > > linking families to Roman emperors and all sorts
            > > of real (and
            > > > > invented) kings. The decendence of most, if not
            > > all Roman
            > > Emperors is
            > > > > largely unknown and no present day family can
            > > seriously be linked
            > > to
            > > > > any of them. The same is even more correct for
            > > Odoacer and Alaric.
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > Although I totally agree with the gist of your
            > > message I am
            > > > really curious to know how it "is even more true
            > > for Odoacer
            > > > and Alaric"?
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Dunno ... just a matter of carless formulation. I
            > > should have
            > > said 'just as true'. But then again, for Odoacer we
            > > know that he had
            > > a son who was killed with him and Alaric might have
            > > had a daughter
            > > who married Ataulf, but I think not much more is
            > > known about his. For
            > > some of the late Roman emperors we might have a
            > > little bit more
            > > information.
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > > Dirk
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > > Cheers
            > > > Soren Larsen
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
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            > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
            > http://search.yahoo.com
          • jean-louis blackburn
            Not to sound too presumptuous, but wouldn t we expect Justinian to have slaughtered the Gothic royal family to the last remnant? J-L ... ===== Open your mouth
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 16, 2004
              Not to sound too presumptuous, but wouldn't we
              expect Justinian to have slaughtered the Gothic
              royal family to the last remnant?
              J-L

              --- gerald baker <glbaker50613@...> wrote:
              > I once knew a Mari Andersson, a Sioux City
              > native now
              > living in California, who said she found out in
              > Sweden
              > that she was a descendant of the Ostrogothic
              > king
              > Theodoric, also known as "Dietrich von Bern." I
              > expressed skepticism in a letter, and she never
              > replied to it.
              >
              > Dietrich, whose "Bern" was really Verona,
              > defeated
              > Odoacer at the "Ravensburg," (Ravenna), and
              > became
              > King of Italy. I have no idea of whether or not
              > either
              > of them, or Alaric, had any descendants.
              >
              > Gerald Baker
              > Cedar Falls, Iowa
              >
              > --- S�ren_Larsen <sohela@...> wrote:
              > > faltin2001 wrote:
              > > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Le
              > Bateman"
              > > <LeBateman@N...> wrote:
              > > >> I had been doing research on a number of
              > > branchs of my family,
              > > > especially
              > > >> the Wyatts.
              > > >> They are descended from some of the later
              > Roman
              > > Emperors. Were these
              > > >> Emperors
              > > >> descended from Alraiks line?. Or Odeacer.
              > Where
              > > can I locate
              > > > information on
              > > >> these
              > > >> lines?
              > > >> Le
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Hi Le,
              > > >
              > > > you should be very sceptical about these
              > > (internet) geneologies
              > > > linking families to Roman emperors and all
              > sorts
              > > of real (and
              > > > invented) kings. The decendence of most, if
              > not
              > > all Roman Emperors is
              > > > largely unknown and no present day family
              > can
              > > seriously be linked to
              > > > any of them. The same is even more correct
              > for
              > > Odoacer and Alaric.
              > > >
              > >
              > > Although I totally agree with the gist of
              > your
              > > message I am
              > > really curious to know how it "is even more
              > true for
              > > Odoacer
              > > and Alaric"?
              > >
              > > Cheers
              > > Soren Larsen
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
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              > Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for
              > faster
              > http://search.yahoo.com
              >
              >
              >
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              >
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              >
              >


              =====
              "Open your mouth for the speechless.And for the cause of all those appointed to die.Open your mouth and judge righteously.And plead the cause of the poor and needy."Proverbs 31: 8-9

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