Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

New to the list with questions

Expand Messages
  • Rudiger von Stuttgart
    Greetings all, I m experienced in the SCA but I m looking for a new perspective, I hope you folks can help. Throughout the Visigothic culture (including the
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 21, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Greetings all,

      I'm experienced in the SCA but I'm looking for a new perspective, I
      hope you folks can help.

      Throughout the Visigothic culture (including the Kingdom on the
      Iberean penninsula) was there any preponderance of paricular colors
      in their clothing, or some colors that they simply had no access?

      Is there a *pattern* that can be associated with the Goths? (I'm
      thinking like knotwork is associated with the Celts and Vikings).

      I'm assuming that they wore primarily wool, may be with some linen
      (please correct me if I'm in error), and perhaps some furs.

      Did they favor any paricular metals for ornamentation (bronze vs.
      brass vs. silver)? And were there any particular geometric shapes
      that they favored?

      Did the Goths favor any animals, as totems, or for ornamental
      purposes?

      I know this is a mouthful right out of the gate, but I thank you all
      in advance for some direction on these subjects.

      Finally, are there any good links to drawings or artwork showing
      typical Gothic daily clothing and/or military dress?

      Best Regards,
      Rutgur
    • Francisc Czobor
      Hello, Rutgur, and welcome to the Gothic list! I don t know much about Gothic dressing, except something which is notorious: the Goths (both Ostro- and Vizi-),
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 26, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello, Rutgur, and welcome to the Gothic list!

        I don't know much about Gothic dressing, except something which is
        notorious: the Goths (both Ostro- and Vizi-), as well as their close
        relatives - the Gepidae, wore fibulae having the shape of birds of
        prey. In the case of chieftains, these fibulae were made of gold,
        often adorned with gems.

        Francisc

        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Rudiger von Stuttgart"
        <sgt_rutgur@h...> wrote:
        > Greetings all,
        >
        > I'm experienced in the SCA but I'm looking for a new perspective, I
        > hope you folks can help.
        >
        > Throughout the Visigothic culture (including the Kingdom on the
        > Iberean penninsula) was there any preponderance of paricular colors
        > in their clothing, or some colors that they simply had no access?
        >
        > Is there a *pattern* that can be associated with the Goths? (I'm
        > thinking like knotwork is associated with the Celts and Vikings).
        >
        > I'm assuming that they wore primarily wool, may be with some linen
        > (please correct me if I'm in error), and perhaps some furs.
        >
        > Did they favor any paricular metals for ornamentation (bronze vs.
        > brass vs. silver)? And were there any particular geometric shapes
        > that they favored?
        >
        > Did the Goths favor any animals, as totems, or for ornamental
        > purposes?
        >
        > I know this is a mouthful right out of the gate, but I thank you
        all
        > in advance for some direction on these subjects.
        >
        > Finally, are there any good links to drawings or artwork showing
        > typical Gothic daily clothing and/or military dress?
        >
        > Best Regards,
        > Rutgur
      • Homer Makedonski
        Hello to the group Regarding all of you here and wishing you all the best in search to the answers for the questions you have. Sorry for my English,it fare
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 26, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello to the group
          Regarding all of you here and wishing you all the best in search to the answers for the questions you have.
          Sorry for my English,it fare away from good and pure,
          Considering my self as new to the list,I would like to ask you a question as well.Hope you won't mine
          Deeply believing that for a lot of the answers ,the things should be related with a religion and opserving how the religion have a reflection in all the aspects of the human society I am interesting in how the Gotts had titled the
          a God's name or what was the name what all the Gotts were using to say God during the time they lived.
          This will be very helpful to me,and my amauterism in searching the names and their possible meanings.
          Thanks in advance


          Homer Makedonski

          --- "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@...> wrote:


          _____________________________________________________________
          Get your free email at mail.strumica.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • faltin2001
          ... close ... Hi Francic, these eagle-fibulae are of course very well known, and the shape was also adopted by Thuringians and Alamannians, but it is of
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 30, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...>
            wrote:
            > Hello, Rutgur, and welcome to the Gothic list!
            >
            > I don't know much about Gothic dressing, except something which is
            > notorious: the Goths (both Ostro- and Vizi-), as well as their
            close
            > relatives - the Gepidae, wore fibulae having the shape of birds of
            > prey. In the case of chieftains, these fibulae were made of gold,
            > often adorned with gems.



            Hi Francic,

            these 'eagle-fibulae' are of course very well known, and the shape
            was also adopted by Thuringians and Alamannians, but it is of course
            a typical Gotho-Gepidic form. Yet, you wrote about chieftains wearing
            such fibulae, which I think is not correct. The large eagle fibulae
            are part of the female dress, it was worn by wealthy Gothic and
            Gepidic women not by men (at least not the typical large ones). The
            same is true for the eagle belt-buckle, they are mostly from female
            graves.

            Cheers
            Dirk









            >
            > Francisc
            >
            > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Rudiger von Stuttgart"
            > <sgt_rutgur@h...> wrote:
            > > Greetings all,
            > >
            > > I'm experienced in the SCA but I'm looking for a new perspective,
            I
            > > hope you folks can help.
            > >
            > > Throughout the Visigothic culture (including the Kingdom on the
            > > Iberean penninsula) was there any preponderance of paricular
            colors
            > > in their clothing, or some colors that they simply had no access?
            > >
            > > Is there a *pattern* that can be associated with the Goths? (I'm
            > > thinking like knotwork is associated with the Celts and Vikings).
            > >
            > > I'm assuming that they wore primarily wool, may be with some
            linen
            > > (please correct me if I'm in error), and perhaps some furs.
            > >
            > > Did they favor any paricular metals for ornamentation (bronze vs.
            > > brass vs. silver)? And were there any particular geometric
            shapes
            > > that they favored?
            > >
            > > Did the Goths favor any animals, as totems, or for ornamental
            > > purposes?
            > >
            > > I know this is a mouthful right out of the gate, but I thank you
            > all
            > > in advance for some direction on these subjects.
            > >
            > > Finally, are there any good links to drawings or artwork showing
            > > typical Gothic daily clothing and/or military dress?
            > >
            > > Best Regards,
            > > Rutgur
          • Francisc Czobor
            Hi Dirk! Thank you very much for your remark. I really believed that the eagle-fibulae were worn both by men and women. Francisc ... ...
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 2, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Dirk!

              Thank you very much for your remark.
              I really believed that the eagle-fibulae were worn both by men and
              women.

              Francisc

              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
              > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor"
              <fericzobor@y...>
              > wrote:
              > ...
              > Hi Francic,
              >
              > these 'eagle-fibulae' are of course very well known, and the shape
              > was also adopted by Thuringians and Alamannians, but it is of
              course
              > a typical Gotho-Gepidic form. Yet, you wrote about chieftains
              wearing
              > such fibulae, which I think is not correct. The large eagle fibulae
              > are part of the female dress, it was worn by wealthy Gothic and
              > Gepidic women not by men (at least not the typical large ones). The
              > same is true for the eagle belt-buckle, they are mostly from female
              > graves.
              >
              > Cheers
              > Dirk
              >
            • faltin2001
              ... Hi Francisc, don t worry you were not the only one. I have seen illustrations (artists impressions) of Gothic warriors adorned with huge eagle fibulae and
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 3, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...>
                wrote:
                > Hi Dirk!
                >
                > Thank you very much for your remark.
                > I really believed that the eagle-fibulae were worn both by men and
                > women.
                >
                > Francisc



                Hi Francisc,

                don't worry you were not the only one. I have seen illustrations
                (artists impressions) of Gothic warriors adorned with huge eagle
                fibulae and eagle belt buckles. However, they really only appear in
                womens graves and they were part of female dress. In fact, it is a
                feature of the cultures associated with the Goths, that the men were
                very modestly dressed in contrast to the women.

                Cheers
                Dirk









                >
                > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor"
                > <fericzobor@y...>
                > > wrote:
                > > ...
                > > Hi Francic,
                > >
                > > these 'eagle-fibulae' are of course very well known, and the
                shape
                > > was also adopted by Thuringians and Alamannians, but it is of
                > course
                > > a typical Gotho-Gepidic form. Yet, you wrote about chieftains
                > wearing
                > > such fibulae, which I think is not correct. The large eagle
                fibulae
                > > are part of the female dress, it was worn by wealthy Gothic and
                > > Gepidic women not by men (at least not the typical large ones).
                The
                > > same is true for the eagle belt-buckle, they are mostly from
                female
                > > graves.
                > >
                > > Cheers
                > > Dirk
                > >
              • Егоров Владимир
                *** Hi Dirk! Taking opportunity I ask you for help. Could you direct me at some
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 3, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  ***<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



                  Hi Dirk!



                  Taking opportunity I ask you for help.
                  Could you direct me at some trustworthy illustrations of Gothic clothes?
                  Desirable are as early sources as possible.



                  Vladimir



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: faltin2001 [mailto:dirk@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:41 PM
                  To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [gothic-l] Re: New to the list with questions


                  --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hi Dirk!
                  >
                  > Thank you very much for your remark.
                  > I really believed that the eagle-fibulae were worn both by men and
                  > women.
                  >
                  > Francisc



                  Hi Francisc,

                  don't worry you were not the only one. I have seen illustrations
                  (artists impressions) of Gothic warriors adorned with huge eagle
                  fibulae and eagle belt buckles. However, they really only appear in
                  womens graves and they were part of female dress. In fact, it is a
                  feature of the cultures associated with the Goths, that the men were
                  very modestly dressed in contrast to the women.

                  Cheers
                  Dirk









                  >
                  > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                  > > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor"
                  > <fericzobor@y...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > ...
                  > > Hi Francic,
                  > >
                  > > these 'eagle-fibulae' are of course very well known, and the
                  shape
                  > > was also adopted by Thuringians and Alamannians, but it is of
                  > course
                  > > a typical Gotho-Gepidic form. Yet, you wrote about chieftains
                  > wearing
                  > > such fibulae, which I think is not correct. The large eagle
                  fibulae
                  > > are part of the female dress, it was worn by wealthy Gothic and
                  > > Gepidic women not by men (at least not the typical large ones).
                  The
                  > > same is true for the eagle belt-buckle, they are mostly from
                  female
                  > > graves.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers
                  > > Dirk
                  > >



                  You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.



                  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

                  ADVERTISEMENT
                  <http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cqceuth/M=243273.4510124.5685162.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705297328:HM/EXP=1075891278/A=1750744/R=0/*http://servedby.advertising.com/click/site=552006/bnum=1075804878386125> Click to learn more...
                  <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=243273.4510124.5685162.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1750744/rand=667432398>


                  _____

                  Yahoo! Groups Links


                  * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/


                  * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:gothic-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


                  * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Francisc Czobor
                  Dear Homer, in the Gothic Bible, God is named Guth , a Germanic word cognate with English God , German Gott , etc. Obviously, in that Bible it refers to the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 16, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Homer,

                    in the Gothic Bible, God is named "Guth", a Germanic word cognate
                    with English "God", German "Gott", etc. Obviously, in that Bible it
                    refers to the Christian God, but surely it was a generic term also
                    for the pagan pre-Christian gods of the Goths, like in other Germanic
                    languages. The Christian Goths called God also "Frauja", which
                    means "Lord". In pre-Christian times, the Goths worshipped also
                    some "demi-gods", called, according to Jordanes, "Asi" (the word is
                    cognate with Old Norse As, Aesir, from a Proto-Germanic *ansu-).

                    Francisc

                    --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Homer Makedonski
                    <HomerMakedonski@s...> wrote:
                    > Hello to the group
                    > Regarding all of you here and wishing you all the best in search to
                    the answers for the questions you have.
                    > Sorry for my English,it fare away from good and pure,
                    > Considering my self as new to the list,I would like to ask you a
                    question as well.Hope you won't mine
                    > Deeply believing that for a lot of the answers ,the things should
                    be related with a religion and opserving how the religion have a
                    reflection in all the aspects of the human society I am interesting
                    in how the Gotts had titled the
                    > a God's name or what was the name what all the Gotts were using
                    to say God during the time they lived.
                    > This will be very helpful to me,and my amauterism in searching the
                    names and their possible meanings.
                    > Thanks in advance
                    >
                    >
                    > Homer Makedonski
                    >
                    > --- "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > _____________________________________________________________
                    > Get your free email at mail.strumica.com
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • faltin2001
                    The Christian Goths called God also Frauja , which ... Hi Francisc, just to add, according to Jordanes/Cassiodorus the pre-Christian devine ancestors or
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 16, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The Christian Goths called God also "Frauja", which
                      > means "Lord". In pre-Christian times, the Goths worshipped also
                      > some "demi-gods", called, according to Jordanes, "Asi" (the word is
                      > cognate with Old Norse As, Aesir, from a Proto-Germanic *ansu-).
                      >
                      > Francisc



                      Hi Francisc,

                      just to add, according to Jordanes/Cassiodorus the pre-Christian
                      devine ancestors or demi-gods were called not 'Asi' but 'Ansi' by the
                      Goths, which is of course, as you say, cognate with Old Norse 'As'
                      and Old High German 'Ans'.

                      BTW, the corresponding term to Gothic 'Frauja', meaning Lord is also
                      still used in religious German words like 'Fron-leichnam', which
                      means Corpus Christi.

                      Cheers
                      Dirk
                    • Francisc Czobor
                      You re right, Dirk. I just quoted from memory. In fact, Jordanes wrote And because of the great victory they had won in this region, they thereafter called
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 16, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        You're right, Dirk. I just quoted from memory.
                        In fact, Jordanes wrote "And because of the great victory they had
                        won in this region, they thereafter called their leaders, by whose
                        good fortune they seemed to have conquered, not mere men, but
                        demigods, that is Ansis" (Getica XIII, 78, Charles C. Mierow's
                        translation; in the origina Latin text: "... magnaque potiti per loca
                        victoria iam proceres suos, quorum quasi fortuna vincebant, non puros
                        homines, sed semideos id est Ansis vocaverunt...").

                        Francisc

                        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                        > The Christian Goths called God also "Frauja", which
                        > > means "Lord". In pre-Christian times, the Goths worshipped also
                        > > some "demi-gods", called, according to Jordanes, "Asi" (the word
                        is
                        > > cognate with Old Norse As, Aesir, from a Proto-Germanic *ansu-).
                        > >
                        > > Francisc
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Francisc,
                        >
                        > just to add, according to Jordanes/Cassiodorus the pre-Christian
                        > devine ancestors or demi-gods were called not 'Asi' but 'Ansi' by
                        the
                        > Goths, which is of course, as you say, cognate with Old Norse 'As'
                        > and Old High German 'Ans'.
                        >
                        > BTW, the corresponding term to Gothic 'Frauja', meaning Lord is
                        also
                        > still used in religious German words like 'Fron-leichnam', which
                        > means Corpus Christi.
                        >
                        > Cheers
                        > Dirk
                      • faltin2001
                        ... loca ... puros ... Hi Francisc, do you know anything about the linguistics behind these terms? Why was the word Ans- in Gothic and West Germanic, but
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 17, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > You're right, Dirk. I just quoted from memory.
                          > In fact, Jordanes wrote "And because of the great victory they had
                          > won in this region, they thereafter called their leaders, by whose
                          > good fortune they seemed to have conquered, not mere men, but
                          > demigods, that is Ansis" (Getica XIII, 78, Charles C. Mierow's
                          > translation; in the origina Latin text: "... magnaque potiti per
                          loca
                          > victoria iam proceres suos, quorum quasi fortuna vincebant, non
                          puros
                          > homines, sed semideos id est Ansis vocaverunt...").
                          >
                          > Francisc




                          Hi Francisc,

                          do you know anything about the linguistics behind these terms? Why
                          was the word 'Ans-' in Gothic and West Germanic, but 'As' in North
                          Germanic? Is this loss of 'n' a regular occurance?

                          Thanks
                          Dirk
                        • Francisc Czobor
                          Hi Dirk, it seems to me that sometimes in North Germanic nasals were dropped before fricative consonants (like in ans- as-), but I don t know what
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 18, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Dirk,

                            it seems to me that sometimes in North Germanic nasals were dropped
                            before fricative consonants (like in ans- > as-), but I don't know
                            what conditionned this phonetic change (anyway, less regular than the
                            similar one in Old Saxon and Old English). I don't have
                            my "Altisländisches Elementarbuch" at hand now (where all sound
                            changes from Common Germanic to Old Norse are described), so I can
                            not verify.

                            Francisc

                            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                            > ...
                            >
                            > Hi Francisc,
                            >
                            > do you know anything about the linguistics behind these terms? Why
                            > was the word 'Ans-' in Gothic and West Germanic, but 'As' in North
                            > Germanic? Is this loss of 'n' a regular occurance?
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            > Dirk
                          • homermakedonski
                            Dear Fransis Thanks for your replay and thanks for the replay s of all of the rest of you . I did found your explanations very helpful to me and my views
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 29, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Fransis


                              Thanks for your replay and thanks for the replay's of all of the rest
                              of you .
                              I did found your explanations very helpful to me and my views
                              about the words and their meaning what I am searching about.I hope I
                              will wrote soon about it

                              Why God as the word in the Gothic language I have been ask you for
                              Maybe I will be more understandiable if I tell you that I am doing my
                              research from "The beginning "

                              I would like to abuse your hospitality here to make some propaganda
                              over the posible meaning of my country name ,hoping that you would
                              not mine

                              Your's thanksful.
                            • homermakedonski
                              http://www.carm.org/kjv/John/john_1.htm 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 29, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                http://www.carm.org/kjv/John/john_1.htm

                                1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
                                Word was God.

                                2 The same was in the beginning with God.

                                3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made
                                that was made.


                                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ----------
                                1.In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,..
                                In the beginning was The Word and the Word was Duma
                                In the beginning was *Duma and *Duma was with Bog
                                *M->N
                                In the beginning was *DoMa and *DoNa was with Boga

                                In the beginning was *Don and Don was with *Bagae
                                *G->K
                                In the beginning was *Don and Don was with *BaeKae
                                *B->M
                                http://pub37.ezboard.com/fistorijabalkanafrm20.showMessage?
                                topicID=87.topic

                                In the beginning was *Don and Don was with *MaeKae
                                In the beginning was Don and Don was with *MaiKae
                                In the beginning was Don and Don was with *Majka
                                In the beginning was Don and Don was with*MaKe


                                "and the Word was God. "
                                and *Duma was God
                                and *Don was God
                                Don~God

                                ADonai-Jews
                                Dion-Espanol
                                Deos-Portugal

                                Dieu-French~*Dieu(n)-*D ie N-*Don

                                Dio, idolo-Italian
                                Diyos-(lat inf), (bathala, ang lumikha)-Tagalog(Filipino)
                                Dumnezeu-Romanian~*Dumne-Duma

                                Dduw, nuw, Celi, Dofydd, celi, cheli, geli, ngheli-Welsh
                                Juma la -Finnish~ *D+juma~*Djumala~*Duma~Don

                                Deus-Latin
                                D->T-TH
                                Theos -Greek
                                ------------

                                2 The same was in the beginning with God.
                                -The Word was in the beginning with God
                                -*Don was in the beginning with* MaKe

                                3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made
                                that was made.


                                Don->*Dzon-Dzom-Dzem-dZem-Zem-Zeme-Zemia-Zemja
                                Don->*uDon-vDon-VoDon-Vodan-Voda
                                Don->*Dzon-oDzon-OdZon-Ozon
                                Don->*oDon-oGon-Ogon-Ogan

                                And all four elements had been created from Don


                                In the beginning was the Word and The Word was Makedonija

                                Take a note pls :
                                Zemja -Earth
                                Voda -water
                                Ogan-fire



                                Homer Makedonski
                              • homermakedonski
                                -And the Word was Terra- If we supposed then the letter N have had deviated into the letter R via letter L eg. analyzing the word Sun soNce - in Macedonian
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 29, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  -And the Word was Terra-



                                  If we supposed then the letter N have had deviated into the letter R
                                  via letter
                                  L
                                  eg. analyzing the word Sun
                                  soNce - in Macedonian
                                  soLem-in Latin
                                  suRia -in Hindi language
                                  *N->L->R
                                  Than instead of Don -Terra as a word shell to appear

                                  Don

                                  D-*T
                                  O-*Oe-oE-E
                                  N-*R
                                  --------
                                  DON
                                  TERRA
                                  -----------
                                  Via Terra all of the text would be on the way :

                                  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
                                  Word was
                                  God.

                                  -In the beginning was *Terra and *Terra was with *Make-Ma(ke)-Ma
                                  ..and Terra was God
                                  (this part will never be explained via Terra,except one name only
                                  Thor,as for
                                  the Scandinavians the Thunder goddess

                                  2 The same was in the beginning with God.
                                  -Terra was in the beginning with Ma


                                  .
                                  .
                                  .

                                  3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made
                                  that was
                                  made.

                                  English version


                                  Terra-*Terra-La Ter--Earth-
                                  Terra->*W+Tera-Watera-Water
                                  Terra->*-T-Era-eAER-AERA-Aero-Air
                                  Terra->*(T-P-F)Pera-Pira-Fira-Fire
                                  All four elements are here again

                                  In the beginning was the Word and the Word was Ma/Terra-Mater
                                  or
                                  Mother


                                  Homer Ma(ke)TerranSKI
                                • homermakedonski
                                  This is my try to write one more time the famous phrase ,now based at my own reconstruction of the Sanscrit language .. I have possibility to learn it at
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 29, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    This is my try to write one more time the famous phrase ,now based at
                                    my own reconstruction of the Sanscrit language ..
                                    I have possibility to "learn it" at site where the original letter's
                                    orthography can be seen ,mostly for the words I had focused them as a
                                    most importen to me .
                                    Those words are :


                                    Bhagavan -God
                                    uvâca-said
                                    vâca-words
                                    ca-also
                                    And I am making comporation with them on this way:

                                    Makedon~Bhagavan
                                    Duma ~vBca




                                    In the beginning was the Word and the word was ..

                                    --------
                                    http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/5/20
                                    ------------------------
                                    God in Sanscrit is Bhagavan

                                    Canto 1: Creation Chapter 5: Nârada's Instructions on Úrîmad-
                                    Bhâgavatam for Vyâsadeva
                                    Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Úrîmad Bhâgavatam 1.5.20
                                    idam? hi viúvam? bhagavân ivetaro
                                    yato jagat-sthâna-nirodha-sambhavâh?
                                    tad dhi svayam? veda bhavâm?s tathâpi te
                                    prâdeúa-mâtram? bhavatah? pradarúitam
                                    SYNONYMS
                                    idam - this; hi - all; viúvam - cosmos; bhagavân - the Supreme Lord;
                                    iva - almost the same; itarah? - different from; yatah? - from whom;
                                    jagat - the worlds; sthâna - exist; nirodha - annihilation;
                                    sambhavâh? - creation; tat hi - all about; svayam - personally; veda -
                                    know; bhavân - your good self; tathâ api - still; te - unto you;
                                    prâdeúa-mâtram - a synopsis only; bhavatah? - unto you; pradarúitam -
                                    explained.
                                    Again from this text :
                                    idam? hi viúvam? bhagavân ivetaro
                                    yato jagat-sthâna-nirodha-sambhavâh?
                                    tad dhi svayam? veda bhavâm?s tathâpi te
                                    prâdeúa-mâtram? bhavatah? pradarúitam;
                                    and Explanation as it given :
                                    SYNONYMS
                                    idam - this; hi - all; viúvam - cosmos; bhagavân - the Supreme Lord; -
                                    almost the same; itarah? - different from; yatah? - from whom;
                                    jagat - the worlds; sthâna - exist; nirodha - annihilation;
                                    sambhavâh? - creation; tat hi - all about; svayam - personally; veda -
                                    know; bhavân - your good self; tathâ api - still; te - unto you;
                                    prâdeúa-mâtram - a synopsis only; bhavatah? - unto you; pradarúitam -
                                    explained.


                                    In the beginning was The Word and The Word was "UVA"
                                    Searching for the word " Word" in Sanscrit :
                                    Word - ?
                                    http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/6/1
                                    Canto 1: Creation Chapter 6: Conversation Between Nârada and
                                    Vyâsadeva
                                    Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Úrîmad Bhâgavatam 1.6.1
                                    sûta uvâca
                                    evam? niúamya bhagavân
                                    devars?er janma karma ca
                                    bhûyah? papraccha tam? brahman
                                    vyâsah? satyavatî-sutah?
                                    SYNONYMS
                                    sûtah? uvâca - Sûta said; evam - thus; niúamya - hearing; bhagavân -
                                    the powerful incarnation of God; devars?eh? - of the great sage among
                                    the gods; janma - birth; karma - work; ca - and; bhûyah? - again;
                                    papraccha - asked; tam - him; brahman - O brâhman?as; vyâsah? -
                                    Vyâsadeva; satyavatî-sutah? - the son of Satyavatî.
                                    TRANSLATION
                                    Sûta said: O brâhman?as, thus hearing all about Úrî Nârada's birth
                                    and activities, Vyâsadeva, the incarnation of God and son of
                                    Satyavatî, inquired as follows.
                                    At this text we will opserve the word
                                    sûta uvâca
                                    evam? niúamya bhagavân
                                    devars?er janma karma ca
                                    bhûyah? papraccha tam? brahman
                                    vyâsah? satyavatî-sutah?

                                    and we will try to find it's meaning :
                                    Again the same text ,and traslaction is :
                                    SYNONYMS
                                    sûtah? uvâca - Sûta said; evam - thus; niúamya - hearing; bhagavân -
                                    the powerful incarnation of God; devars?eh? - of the great sage among
                                    the gods; janma - birth; karma - work; ca - and; bhûyah? - again;
                                    papraccha - asked; tam - him; brahman - O brâhman?as; vyâsah? -
                                    Vyâsadeva; satyavatî-sutah? - the son of Satyavatî.
                                    uvâca-said

                                    next word is the word :words
                                    from:
                                    http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/6/20
                                    Canto 1: Creation Chapter 6: Conversation Between Nârada and
                                    Vyâsadeva
                                    Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Úrîmad Bhâgavatam 1.6.20
                                    evam? yatantam? vijane
                                    mâm âhâgocaro girâm
                                    gambhîra-úlaks?n?ayâ vâcâ
                                    úucah? praúamayann iva
                                    SYNONYMS
                                    evam - thus; yatantam - one who is engaged in attempting; vijane - in
                                    that lonely place; mâm - unto me; âha - said; agocarah? - beyond the
                                    range of physical sound; girâm - utterances; gambhîra - grave; úlaks?
                                    n?aya - pleasing to hear; vâcâ - words; úucah? - grief; praúamayan -
                                    mitigating; iva - like.
                                    TRANSLATION
                                    Seeing my attempts in that lonely place, the Personality of Godhead,
                                    who is transcendental to all mundane description, spoke to me with
                                    gravity and pleasing words, just to mitigate my grief.
                                    Focus on the text is here:
                                    evam? yatantam? vijane
                                    mâm âhâgocaro girâm
                                    gambhîra-úlaks?n?ayâ vâcâ
                                    úucah? praúamayann iva
                                    and explanation is :

                                    SYNONYMS
                                    evam - thus; yatantam - one who is engaged in attempting; vijane - in
                                    that lonely place; mâm - unto me; âha - said; agocarah? - beyond the
                                    range of physical sound; girâm - utterances; gambhîra - grave; úlaks?
                                    n?aya - pleasing to hear; vâcâ - words; úucah? - grief; praúamayan -
                                    mitigating; iva - like.
                                    vâcâ - words
                                    Now let's make a reconstruction for the word uvaca



                                    Chapter 3: Kr?s?n?a Is the Source of All Incarnations
                                    Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Úrimad Bhagavatam 1.3.44
                                    tatra kirtayato vipra
                                    viprars?er bhuri-tejasah?
                                    aham? cadhyagamam? tatra
                                    nivis?t?as tad-anugrahat
                                    so 'ham? vah? úravayis?yami
                                    yathadhitam? yatha-mati
                                    SYNONYMS
                                    tatra - there; kîrtayatah? - while reciting; viprâh? - O brâhman?as;
                                    vipra-r?s?eh? - from the great brâhman?a-r?s?i; bhûri - greatly;
                                    tejasah? - powerful; aham - I; ca - also; adhyagamam - could
                                    understand; tatra - in that meeting; nivis?t?ah? - being perfectly
                                    attentive; tat-anugrahât - by his mercy; sah? - that very thing;
                                    aham - I; vah? - unto you; úravayis?yami - shall let you hear; yathâ-
                                    adhîtam yathâ-mati - as far as my realization.
                                    TRANSLATION
                                    O learned brâhman?as, when Úukadeva Gosvâmî recited Bhâgavatam there
                                    [in the presence of Emperor Parîks?it], I heard him with rapt
                                    attention, and thus, by his mercy, I learned the Bhâgavatam from that
                                    great and powerful sage. Now I shall try to make you hear the very
                                    same thing as I learned it from him and as I have realized it.
                                    __________________
                                    From this text we focus on the word >ca <
                                    tatra kirtayato vipra
                                    viprars?er bhuri-tejasah?
                                    aham? cadhyagamam? tatra
                                    nivis?t?as tad-anugrahat
                                    so 'ham? vah? úravayis?yami
                                    yathadhitam? yatha-mati
                                    and it explanation: :
                                    SYNONYMS
                                    tatra - there; kîrtayatah? - while reciting; viprâh? - O brâhman?as;
                                    vipra-r?s?eh? - from the great brâhman?a-r?s?i; bhûri - greatly;
                                    tejasah? - powerful; aham - I; ca - also; adhyagamam - could
                                    understand; tatra - in that meeting; nivis?t?ah? - being perfectly
                                    attentive; tat-anugrahât - by his mercy; sah? - that very thing;
                                    aham - I; vah? - unto you; úravayis?yami - shall let you hear; yathâ-
                                    adhîtam yathâ-mati - as far as my realization.

                                    ca-also;


                                    Now a bit of free reconstruction for finding the word-Word from here:
                                    uvâca-said
                                    vâca-words
                                    ca-also
                                    u/vâ/ca
                                    if I make a paralele with our word Duma with
                                    uvâca-said
                                    ..if someone is something said
                                    and that saying is often
                                    ca-also than rest is Uva -U/va
                                    *Uva~Duma
                                    U-U
                                    *V->*B->*M
                                    A-A
                                    *Uva->*Uma->(D)Uma->Duma





                                    Now back to the Text :

                                    1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
                                    Word was
                                    God
                                    In the beginning was the Word and the word was
                                    *U/va and *U/va was with Bhagavan
                                    Bhagavan is God in Sanscrit
                                    Bhaga/van
                                    Bhaga/(U)VAN
                                    Bhaga/Van
                                    .. and the Word was God
                                    with u/va this condition is inpossible to be explained
                                    ,maybe if it is opserved only as
                                    UVA-U/Va-
                                    *V-*B-*M
                                    and than is U/MA
                                    Ma as Mother
                                    2. The same was in the beginning with God.
                                    -UVA(N)was in the beginning with Bhaga
                                    .
                                    .
                                    .
                                    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made
                                    that was
                                    made.
                                    what it's Today's as a hindy version:
                                    UVAN~DUMA~DON
                                    *DON->*ODON->*OGON->*OGNI->*AGNI->*HAGNI->Fire
                                    *DON->*DAN->*PAN->PANI-water
                                    *DON->*DUMA->*DUVA->
                                    *D->*H (via D-> Dz-K's->X->H)
                                    *Duva->*Huva->*Hauva->*Hawa-Air
                                    They are only three elements in Hynduism
                                    the fourth one is Mother Earth Herself
                                    for the Earth are saying Zemni
                                    or for the planet Earth will say DUNYIA
                                    Don->Don ia->Dunyia
                                    In the beginning was the Word and the Word was
                                    Bhagavan
                                    and a question why is that
                                    bhagavân - the Supreme Lord; -
                                    BHAGA/VAN
                                    *B->*M
                                    *H->'
                                    *A->A
                                    *G->K
                                    *A->AE->E
                                    _______
                                    B H A G A
                                    M ' A K E
                                    _______
                                    VAN
                                    *V->W->*D
                                    *A->O
                                    *N-N
                                    ______
                                    V A N
                                    D O N
                                    ______
                                    BHAGA/VAN
                                    M' AKE /DON
                                    _____________
                                    BHAGAVAN~MAKEDON
                                    ________________

                                    Homer BhagavanSKI

                                    alijaz

                                    Homer Makedonski
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.