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Re: Map of the Germanic (Gothic?) place-names in Poland

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  • llama_nom
    Hi Reikhardus, Two of the names on this map are said to come from a Germanic *trulling-. I wonder if there is any connection with the nickname trouli which
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 16, 2004
      Hi Reikhardus,

      Two of the names on this map are said to come from a Germanic
      *trulling-. I wonder if there is any connection with the
      nickname "trouli" which Olympiodorus claims was what the Vandals
      called the Goths after 416. According to Olympiodorus (summarised by
      Photius), this was was derogatory term deriving from the Latin
      word "trula", a measure of grain. In 416 the Visigoths were
      blockaded in Taragonne, and were forced to the pay exorbitant price
      of one aureus to the Vandals for a trula of wheat. But maybe this
      was a folk-etymology, or a scholarly explanation of a name that
      already existed?

      Of the *trulling- place names, one appears in the Wielbark area,
      associated with the Goths, and the other in the Przeworsk area,
      perhaps representing the Vandals or their precursors - though the
      boundary between the two changed over time, so I'm not sure whether
      too much can be read into that.

      I seem to remember reading a discussion on this list a long time ago
      about the Scandinavian word 'troll', and its possible relation to
      Polish place names (I'm afraid I can't find it now), but I don't
      thing this can be the case here, as the vowel is different (troll
      would come from an earlier *trallu).

      As for the other names: *greudung- looks very similar to *Griutingos,
      a famous Gothic tribe, appearing in Latin as the Greutingi, and in
      Old Norse as Grytinga (genitive plural, long /y/).

      *widung- might contain the same root as Wulfila's ga-widan "to join
      together"; could *wilthj- be related to Gothic wiltheis "wild"?
      *baki- makes sense as a cognate of the English 'beck', German 'Bach' -
      suggesting a Gothic i-stem *baks.

      Does anyone have any idea about the others? One that puzzled me was
      Goplo (with the Polish line through the /l/), which is matched to a
      Germanic *gathel (the /th/ here being a thorn symbol on the map). Is
      this a mistake?

      I share Vladimir's doubts about Pelta/*fultho. Regarding the two
      different forms supposedly derived from *struko: Maybe these reflect
      different Slavonic (or Baltic?) dialects. If this derivation is
      genuine, the first syllable could have been lost due to being
      unstressed (cf. Czech sklo, as opposed to Russian stiklo, Old
      Prussian stiklo, Gothic stikls). But I don't know enough about
      Polish etymology to make an informed judgement on this.

      That said, the map is very intriguing and I look forward to seeing
      the Silesian names. Do either of the books offer meanings for these
      place names?

      Llama Nom

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "galadhorn" <galadhorn@i...> wrote:
      > Here (http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/graphics/germania_low.jpg) I
      > published a map made by me (using the maps: "Germanic place-names"
      > from Z. Babik's "The Oldest Place-name Stratum in Today's Poland"
      > (Cracow 2001) and "Archeological cultures in today's Poland in the
      > Late Roman period - 3-4 C." from Kaczanowski, Kozlowski's "The
      > Oldest History of the Land of Today's Poland") which shows the
      > Germanic place-names in the teritory which in the antiquity was
      > populated by the Goths and Gepids (Wielbark Culture).
      > I would like to hear your opinion about this map. I have tried to
      > reconstruct the Germanic forms of the names (according to Babik's
      > book and to the newest Polish research). Babik ennumerates 23 Pre-
      > Slavic Germanic place-names in Poland. I will add the Silesian
      > soon.
      > Reikhardus
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