Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [gothic-l] Gothic Dance?

Expand Messages
  • Elena Alcamesi
    The Byzantine emperor Constantine VII refers in his Book of Ceremonies to a Gothic Dance performed by members of his Varangian guard, who took part wearing
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 3 7:21 AM
      The Byzantine emperor Constantine VII refers in his Book of Ceremonies to a
      "Gothic Dance" performed by members of his Varangian guard, who took part
      wearing animal skins and masks. You can read a description in H.P.
      Ellis-Davidson, Pagan Scandinavia, New York: Frederick A. Praeger. 1967, p.
      100.
      Ellis-Davidson suggests that this type of costumed dance is also seen in
      figures from Swedish helmet plates, scabbard ornaments, and bracteates which
      depict human figures with the heads of bears or wolves, dressed in animal
      skins but having human hands and feet. These figures often carry spears or
      swords, and are depicted as running or dancing.


      > Hails,
      > While doing some research, I came across something referred to as
      > the "Gothic Dance". The author references the "Byzantine Book of
      > Ceremonies". Can anyone be of assistance here? Granted, the "Goths"
      > mentioned were probably Varangian Guard, but what I'm looking for
      > here is a discription of the dance itself.
      >
      > Thank you,
      > Valulfr
      >
      >
      >
      > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email
      to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Terje Ellefsen
      Hails Yes, this is the Varangian guard. They dressed up in full war gear and ran around in a circle inside the palace. I think they did this every time an
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 3 7:24 AM
        Hails

        Yes, this is the Varangian guard. They dressed up in full war gear and ran
        around in a circle inside the palace. I think they did this every time an
        emperor died. They were allowed to pillage the emperors hoard. I could be
        mixing two things here though.

        Terje


        >From: "hrafnsnest" <wulfsligrs@...>
        >Reply-To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
        >To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [gothic-l] Gothic Dance?
        >Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:09:05 -0000
        >
        >Hails,
        > While doing some research, I came across something referred to as
        >the "Gothic Dance". The author references the "Byzantine Book of
        >Ceremonies". Can anyone be of assistance here? Granted, the "Goths"
        >mentioned were probably Varangian Guard, but what I'm looking for
        >here is a discription of the dance itself.
        >
        >Thank you,
        >Valulfr
        >

        _________________________________________________________________
        Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
        http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
      • Le Bateman
        Does anyone know if the Goths had a word similar to the OE Hlaford another of their words for Lord, or Master. Le ... From: Ingemar Nordgren
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 3 5:15 PM
          Does anyone know if the Goths had a word similar to the OE Hlaford another
          of their words for Lord, or Master.
          Le
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar@...>
          To: <gothic-l@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 7:03 PM
          Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Gothic Dance?


          --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "hrafnsnest" <wulfsligrs@c...> wrote:
          > Hails,
          > While doing some research, I came across something referred to as
          > the "Gothic Dance". The author references the "Byzantine Book of
          > Ceremonies". Can anyone be of assistance here? Granted, the "Goths"
          > mentioned were probably Varangian Guard, but what I'm looking for
          > here is a discription of the dance itself.
          >
          > Thank you,
          > Valulfr

          Hi Valulfr!

          The description says that they took each others hands and danced/ran
          round in a circle while crying "jul, jul" and seeming very happy and
          merry. It is quite evident the tradition with ringdances on Yule/Jul
          is very old. They did indeed belong to the emperors guard and they
          were decidedly Northmen/Scandinavians.

          Best
          Ingemar



          You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email
          to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • faltin2001
          ... the Goths ... Hi Valulfr, as Ingemar explained this has nothing whatsoever to do with the Goths. We have no information about Gothic dances at all. If
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 4 2:54 AM
            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "hrafnsnest" <wulfsligrs@c...> wrote:
            > Hails,
            > While doing some research, I came across something referred to as
            > the "Gothic Dance". The author references the "Byzantine Book of
            > Ceremonies". Can anyone be of assistance here? Granted,
            the "Goths"
            > mentioned were probably Varangian Guard, but what I'm looking for
            > here is a discription of the dance itself.
            >
            > Thank you,
            > Valulfr


            Hi Valulfr,

            as Ingemar explained this has nothing whatsoever to do with the
            Goths. We have no information about Gothic dances at all. If somebody
            described the ringelreign of Varangian bodyguards as 'Gothic dance'
            he/she simply didn't know what they were talking about.

            Cheers
            Dirk
          • faltin2001
            The description of this Gothic dance is from: Constantine VII Porphyrgenitus: De Ceremonies Aulae Byzantinae, in which the emperor describes the Byzantine
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 4 4:02 AM
              The description of this 'Gothic dance' is from:

              Constantine VII Porphyrgenitus: De Ceremonies Aulae Byzantinae, in
              which the emperor describes the Byzantine court ceremonies. However,
              as noted earlier this dance referes to the Varangian guards in
              Constantinopel in the 10th century. It has nothing to do with the
              East Germanic Goths.

              Cheers
              Dirk





              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
              > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "hrafnsnest" <wulfsligrs@c...>
              wrote:
              > > Hails,
              > > While doing some research, I came across something referred to
              as
              > > the "Gothic Dance". The author references the "Byzantine Book of
              > > Ceremonies". Can anyone be of assistance here? Granted,
              > the "Goths"
              > > mentioned were probably Varangian Guard, but what I'm looking for
              > > here is a discription of the dance itself.
              > >
              > > Thank you,
              > > Valulfr
              >
              >
              > Hi Valulfr,
              >
              > as Ingemar explained this has nothing whatsoever to do with the
              > Goths. We have no information about Gothic dances at all. If
              somebody
              > described the ringelreign of Varangian bodyguards as 'Gothic dance'
              > he/she simply didn't know what they were talking about.
              >
              > Cheers
              > Dirk
            • Tore Gannholm
              Hi! Do we know when the Varangian guard was established? Tore ... --
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 4 1:39 PM
                Hi!
                Do we know when the Varangian guard was established?
                Tore

                >Hails
                >
                >Yes, this is the Varangian guard. They dressed up in full war gear and ran
                >around in a circle inside the palace. I think they did this every time an
                >emperor died. They were allowed to pillage the emperors hoard. I could be
                >mixing two things here though.
                >
                >Terje
                >
                >
                >>From: "hrafnsnest" <wulfsligrs@...>
                >>Reply-To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                >>To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                >>Subject: [gothic-l] Gothic Dance?
                >>Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:09:05 -0000
                >>
                >>Hails,
                >> While doing some research, I came across something referred to as
                >>the "Gothic Dance". The author references the "Byzantine Book of
                >>Ceremonies". Can anyone be of assistance here? Granted, the "Goths"
                >>mentioned were probably Varangian Guard, but what I'm looking for
                >>here is a discription of the dance itself.
                >>
                >>Thank you,
                > >Valulfr
                >>


                --
              • faltin2001
                ... This web-site claims that the Varangian guard was established in 988AD, by emperor Basilios III.
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 5 5:09 AM
                  --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm@s...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hi!
                  > Do we know when the Varangian guard was established?
                  > Tore




                  This web-site claims that the Varangian guard was established in
                  988AD, by emperor Basilios III.

                  http://users.bigpond.net.au/quarfwa/miklagard/period/guard.htm


                  This is apparently the first mentioning of the Varangian guard,
                  including a contemporary drawing. The first mentioning refers to a
                  Varangian who tried to rape a women and was killed by her.

                  http://users.bigpond.net.au/quarfwa/miklagard/period/skylitzes_peter.h
                  tm

                  Another picture showing them with their axes is here.

                  http://users.bigpond.net.au/quarfwa/miklagard/period/skylitzes1.htm


                  Dirk





                  >
                  > >Hails
                  > >
                  > >Yes, this is the Varangian guard. They dressed up in full war gear
                  and ran
                  > >around in a circle inside the palace. I think they did this every
                  time an
                  > >emperor died. They were allowed to pillage the emperors hoard. I
                  could be
                  > >mixing two things here though.
                  > >
                  > >Terje
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >>From: "hrafnsnest" <wulfsligrs@c...>
                  > >>Reply-To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                  > >>Subject: [gothic-l] Gothic Dance?
                  > >>Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:09:05 -0000
                  > >>
                  > >>Hails,
                  > >> While doing some research, I came across something referred
                  to as
                  > >>the "Gothic Dance". The author references the "Byzantine Book of
                  > >>Ceremonies". Can anyone be of assistance here? Granted,
                  the "Goths"
                  > >>mentioned were probably Varangian Guard, but what I'm looking for
                  > >>here is a discription of the dance itself.
                  > >>
                  > >>Thank you,
                  > > >Valulfr
                  > >>
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                • hrafnsnest
                  Great info. all - But do we know if the term Gothic dance is used in the original text, or is this a literary device used by Prof. H.R. Davidson? In
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 5 8:56 AM
                    Great info. all -
                    But do we know if the term 'Gothic dance' is used in the original
                    text, or is this a literary device used by Prof. H.R. Davidson? In
                    addition can someone provide the exact description of the dance, and
                    what they were wearing? I have several Prof. Davidson's works, but
                    not the one mentioned.

                    Thanks,
                    Valulfr
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.