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[gothic-l] Re: 'namna' is correct

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  • jdm314@aol.com
    jdm31-@aol.com wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?start=721 ... your post, but neither do I have anything interesting to say about
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 2, 1999
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      jdm31-@... wrote:
      original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?start=721
      > Concerning James:
      >
      > Apparently, [SNIP, I do not contovert anything in the majority of
      your post, but neither do I have anything interesting to say about it]

      > As for Jason, in Greek the intitial iota could have been the vowel
      > followed by the /j/, Latin would have simply made this /j-/ like the y
      > in yellow. Latin I and Greek iota were commonly used to represent the
      > consonantal /j-/ when followed by a vowel. Modern Latin or Romance
      > languages changed this to the /dj-/ quality rather comparatively late
      --
      > toward the last two centuries of the first millenium. Spanish speakers

      I know this story off course, my point about Iason is NOT the
      orthography, though. My point was that since the name occurs in poetry
      (both Greek and Latin) we know that the i was pronounced as a VOWEL in
      this particular name (at least in the formal situation of a poem)
      However, it seems to me likely that colloquially it was pronounced
      CONSONENTALLY as i was in many other words and names, since it yields a
      j- in other languages, and the consonental i- regularly does this.
      Contrast names like Io (not Jo) and so on.
      Note, of course, that Jason's fater was Æson, which is simply a
      metathesis of his name when written in Greek- IASÔN/AISÔN


      > apparently had a hard time keeping up with the Italian fashions in
      > pronunciation for we find Diego/Iago for Iacobus/Giacomo and Juan and
      > Jose for Iohannes/Giovanni and Iosephus/Giuseppe. French was probably

      Diego/Iago I get, but are Juan and Jose borrowed from Italian?? I
      assumed they were just the Spanish outcomes of those names.
      Though ingluence of Giuseppe sure explains why Pepe is a nickname for
      Jose!


      > first in changing the pronunciation of initial consonantal i.
      > Would not Karls (with a non palatalized k-) be a likely candidate for
      a
      > Gothic form of Charles/Carl?

      It sounds more likely to me, but then I don't know the first thing
      about this subject and I'm just going on sound ;)

      Ïusteinus

      > Tomas
    • Tomas Mac an Chrosain
      ... Latin was centered in Italian Rome. Latin speech was always judged by the Roman standard. Modern Italian is considered the closest Romance Language
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 4, 1999
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        Iusteinus:
        > Diego/Iago I get, but are Juan and Jose borrowed from Italian?? I
        > assumed they were just the Spanish outcomes of those names.
        > Though ingluence of Giuseppe sure explains why Pepe is a nickname for
        > Jose!
        >
        Latin was centered in Italian Rome. Latin speech was always judged by
        the Roman standard. Modern Italian is considered the closest Romance
        Language descendent of the ancient Latin even counting the archaism of
        Sardininan.
        IOSEPHUS was probably pronounced /"Yo-SEP-hus"/ at first, then later
        IOSEPHE (vocative) "Yo-SE-pe" and variants in Yu-SE-pe and /Yu-SEP-pe/
        then finally /Dju-SEP-pe/ "Giuseppe." PH /p+h/ was originally
        distinguished from PH /f/. Late Latin still had an influence on the
        provinces and took their fashions from Rome until the Latin culture
        gradually was established in provincial cities.
        after the Roman empire, and during Carolus Magnus time, the vain attempt
        to keep Latin was lost and an uphill battle -- something like to trying
        to impose Elizabethan--Shakespearean and Authorized Biblical King James
        English on modern North Americans and peoples of the United Kingdom.

        > > Would not Karls (with a non palatalized k-) be a likely candidate for
        > a
        > > Gothic form of Charles/Carl?
        >
        > It sounds more likely to me, but then I don't know the first thing
        > about this subject and I'm just going on sound ;)
        >
        > Ïusteinus

        If not Karls then perharps Kairls?
        I assume that no one has found the cognate word in Gothic.
        It seems to me that given what was said about the origin of the
        name/noun Karl/Ceorl on the others' postings, we have a divergence
        between a palatal and non-palatal k- in protoGermanic.
        What would be the Gothic equivalents of:
        Jarl
        Karl
        Thrall
        Indeed, would this not be imposing a projection of an Icelandic Norse
        social system onto the Goths, whose own social system was may have been
        similar in arrangement but probably different in details and
        terminology.
        Tomas
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