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Germanic and Rumania was Re: Goths and Getae

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  • Francisc Czobor
    Hi, Dirk, ... In ... the ... Very interesting, I have the same point of view like you. Probably this is would be the conclusion of an objective observer. What
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 4, 2003
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      Hi, Dirk,

      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
      > Hi Francisc,
      >
      > thanks a lot for this very detailed and clear overview. Indeed, I
      > don't think this is off topic, since it gives us an idea about the
      > nature of Gothic and Gepidic influence in those regions. From your
      > presentation, the migrationist view seems somewhat stronger to me.
      In
      > fact, perhaps a combination of both theories might be closest to
      the
      > truth. Maybe some small groups of Daco-Romans remained in the area,
      > who were later supplemented by Romanic people from south of the
      > Danube.
      >

      Very interesting, I have the same point of view like you. Probably
      this is would be the conclusion of an objective observer.
      What is relevant for this Gothic list, the East-Germanic (Gothic &
      Gepidic) presence in Dacia is documentary and archeologically well
      attested for the 4-6th centuries (including such precious gold hoards
      like the Gothic one from Pietroasa and the Gepidic one from
      Szilagysomlyo / Simleul Silvaniei). But the linguistic traces are
      very scarce (compared for instance with Italy, South France,and
      Spain, where there is a significant number of words of Gothic
      origin), fact which is variously interpreted in the different
      theories.

      Francisc
    • faltin2001
      ... the ... your ... me. ... area, ... hoards ... Yet, even in Italy, Southern France and even Spain the linguistic influence was marginal at best. The
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 4, 2003
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        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor@y...>
        wrote:
        > Hi, Dirk,
        >
        > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
        > > Hi Francisc,
        > >
        > > thanks a lot for this very detailed and clear overview. Indeed, I
        > > don't think this is off topic, since it gives us an idea about
        the
        > > nature of Gothic and Gepidic influence in those regions. From
        your
        > > presentation, the migrationist view seems somewhat stronger to
        me.
        > In
        > > fact, perhaps a combination of both theories might be closest to
        > the
        > > truth. Maybe some small groups of Daco-Romans remained in the
        area,
        > > who were later supplemented by Romanic people from south of the
        > > Danube.
        > >
        >
        > Very interesting, I have the same point of view like you. Probably
        > this is would be the conclusion of an objective observer.
        > What is relevant for this Gothic list, the East-Germanic (Gothic &
        > Gepidic) presence in Dacia is documentary and archeologically well
        > attested for the 4-6th centuries (including such precious gold
        hoards
        > like the Gothic one from Pietroasa and the Gepidic one from
        > Szilagysomlyo / Simleul Silvaniei). But the linguistic traces are
        > very scarce (compared for instance with Italy, South France,and
        > Spain, where there is a significant number of words of Gothic
        > origin), fact which is variously interpreted in the different
        > theories.
        >
        > Francisc


        Yet, even in Italy, Southern France and even Spain the linguistic
        influence was marginal at best. The Visigothic kingdom in Spain
        lasted some 200 years from about 507-711, but admittingly, for most
        of the time the Visigoths had likely adopted Latin/Romance. The
        Visigothic kingdom in southern Gaul lasted from 418-507, ie. almost
        100 years, while the Ostrogothic kingdom in Italy had a life-span of
        some 70 years at most. Clearly, in none of the cases did the Goths
        afford a language shift. Instead they probably veered towards Latin,
        at least in some cases already prior to their settlements. Latin,
        after all was the language of the Roman army, and both Visigoths and
        Ostrogoths were essentially Roman federate armies. Upon their
        settlement, they utilised the existing Roman administration, which
        was of course based on Latin. So it is probably not surprising that
        the the linguistic input of Gothic in any of these regions is small.

        cheers
        Dirk
      • draket222
        Isn t it possible to have Dacian tribes taking over the Nordic people at different times.Since Thracians were so aggressive and culturaly advanced, this theory
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 4, 2004
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          Isn't it possible to have Dacian tribes taking over the Nordic people
          at different times.Since Thracians were so aggressive and culturaly
          advanced, this theory would make sense.

          Mike
        • faltin2001
          ... people ... Hi Mike, this is not a theory but speculation, unless you have any evidence. All we know about Thracians and Dacians is that they were conquered
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 19, 2004
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            --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "draket222" <draket222@y...> wrote:
            > Isn't it possible to have Dacian tribes taking over the Nordic
            people
            > at different times.Since Thracians were so aggressive and culturaly
            > advanced, this theory would make sense.
            >
            > Mike


            Hi Mike,

            this is not a theory but speculation, unless you have any evidence.
            All we know about Thracians and Dacians is that they were conquered
            by the Romans in the 2nd century AD, and that they vanished as
            independend ethnic identities shortly thereafter.

            Cheers
            Dirk
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