Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Daco-Getic

Expand Messages
  • Sunny
    Hi Francisc, thanks for taking to time to comment on Lundius. Thank you Dirk for your view, I will keep this in mind. Francisc, a few comment on your
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 3, 2003
      Hi Francisc, thanks for taking to time to comment on Lundius. Thank
      you Dirk for your view, I will keep this in mind. Francisc, a few
      comment on your response if I may?:

      "They were generically designated as Getai (in Greek) / Getae
      (in Latin) and Daci (in Latin). The two terms were almost equivalent,
      but Getae referred mainly to the tribes along the Danube, whereas
      Daci to the tribes within the Carpathian mountains (today's
      Transylvania, in central and western Romania). Now is admitted that
      Daci and Getae represented the same people and are referred to by
      many historians as "Daco-Getae"….Thracian was an Indo-
      European language group of the "satem" branch, being thus more
      related to the Balto-Slavic, Indo-Iranian and Phrygian-Armenian
      language groups, and fairly distant from the Germanic languages, that
      belonged to the "kentum" branch of the Indo-European family (together
      with Italic, Celtic, Greek, Hittito-Luvite and Tocharian…"

      According to Leake, the area around Thrace was called "Little-
      Scythia" by the classical writers, is this true?

      I agree that the Dacians were the same or similar to the Getae.
      Leake writes, "From Strabo's time on, the Getae and Daci were
      considered to the same people and their names were used
      interchangeably (Leake 1967: 22)." Mircea Elaide, in his book
      Zalmoxis, equates the Dacians with the Dahae branch of Sakas:

      According to Strabo (304: 7, 3, 12), the original name of the Dacians
      was daoi…certain nomadic Scythians to the east of the Caspian Sea
      were also called daoi. The Latin authors called them Dahae, and some
      Greek historians daai…At first the name "Dacians" were referred to
      one of the Thracian tribes in Northwestern Dacia (Strabo 304: 7. 3.
      12). In general the name "Getae" occurs more commonly toward the
      Black Sea, from the Balkans to the Dniester, whereas, the
      name "Dacians" is more frequent in the northwest, west, and the
      south…. (Eliade 1970: 1-2,12).

      Now Arnold Toynbee, believed the Thracian Getae to be an early
      splinter groups of the Eastern Scythians, he wrote, "It is, however,
      perhaps more likely that the European Getae and Davi (Daci), like
      their homonyms east of the Volga, were a pair of the original Iranian
      speaking hordes who gradually became assimilated to the sedentary
      Thracian-speaking populations whom they conquered (Toynbee 1934: 435
      (vII))."

      So were the Daco-Getans originally the Dahae and Massagetae found
      east of the Caspian Sea? Regards,

      Eliade, M. Zalmoxis, The Vanishing God. Translated by Trask, W.
      Chicago and London. University of Chicago Press: 1970.

      Leake, J.A. The Geats of Beowulf. Madison, Milwaukee, and London.
      University of Wisconsin Press: 1967.

      Toynbee, A. A Study of History. Vol. 2., London. Oxford University
      Press: 1939, First Published in 1934.
    • Francisc Czobor
      Hi, Sunny, This discussion begins to be off-topic. What is relevant for the Gothic list is whether the Getae are identical with the Goths or not. Anyway, I ll
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 4, 2003
        Hi, Sunny,

        This discussion begins to be off-topic. What is relevant for the
        Gothic list is whether the Getae are identical with the Goths or not.
        Anyway, I'll try to give you some answers, although I have to rely
        only on what I remember, because I don't have history books at hand
        now, so I can not indicate references from the specialty literature.

        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Sunny" <sunnyjat12002@y...> wrote:
        > ...
        > According to Leake, the area around Thrace was called "Little-
        > Scythia" by the classical writers, is this true?

        Little Scythia (Scythia Minor) was in the late antiquity the name of
        the area between the Lower Danube and the Black Sea, that is called
        now Dobrudja (In Romanian: Dobrogea) and is shared between Romania
        (the northern part) and Bulgaria (the southern part). Before "Scythia
        Minor", this area was called "Moesia Inferior", and this was its name
        also as a province of the Roman Empire. Later, when some Scythian
        tribes settled there coming from North-East (the "great" Scythia,
        where today is Ukraine), the region used to be called also "Little
        Scythia".

        > I agree that the Dacians were the same or similar to the Getae.
        > Leake writes, "From Strabo's time on, the Getae and Daci were
        > considered to the same people and their names were used
        > interchangeably (Leake 1967: 22)." Mircea Elaide, in his book
        > Zalmoxis, equates the Dacians with the Dahae branch of Sakas:
        >
        > According to Strabo (304: 7, 3, 12), the original name of the
        Dacians
        > was daoi…certain nomadic Scythians to the east of the Caspian Sea
        > were also called daoi. The Latin authors called them Dahae, and
        some
        > Greek historians daai…At first the name "Dacians" were referred to
        > one of the Thracian tribes in Northwestern Dacia (Strabo 304: 7. 3.
        > 12). In general the name "Getae" occurs more commonly toward the
        > Black Sea, from the Balkans to the Dniester, whereas, the
        > name "Dacians" is more frequent in the northwest, west, and the
        > south…. (Eliade 1970: 1-2,12).

        This is exactly what I also wrote. The Daci and Getae were considered
        the same people, the name "Daci" being applied more commonly to the
        tribes of NW Dacia (todays Transylvania) and "Getae" to those along
        the Lower Danube and towards the Black Sea.

        > Now Arnold Toynbee, believed the Thracian Getae to be an early
        > splinter groups of the Eastern Scythians, he wrote, "It is,
        however,
        > perhaps more likely that the European Getae and Davi (Daci), like
        > their homonyms east of the Volga, were a pair of the original
        Iranian
        > speaking hordes who gradually became assimilated to the sedentary
        > Thracian-speaking populations whom they conquered (Toynbee 1934:
        435
        > (vII))."
        >
        > So were the Daco-Getans originally the Dahae and Massagetae found
        > east of the Caspian Sea? Regards,
        >

        In the past, it was this view that the Daco-Getae where related to
        some eastern Iranic tribes, based on name ressemblances like Daci -
        Dahae and Getae - Massagetae - Thyssagetae. In the XIXth century it
        was generally considered that the Thracians were very close
        linguistically to the Iranic language group, or even members of this
        group. Based on such name ressemblances, some considered that even
        the African Getuli were related to the Getae. But today sych views
        are no more shared, at least by the mainstream of the Romanian
        historians and linguists.
        As far as I remeber, the name Dahae is put in connection with the
        Sanskrit word dasa "slave" and with the Modern Persian word
        deh "village". The name of the Daci is considered to be derived from
        a putative Thracic word *dak = "wolf", based also on the fact that
        the wolf was a sort of totemic animal for the Daci (the war banners
        of the Daci represented an animal with a wolf head and a snake body).
        But, as far as I know, the name Getae, both in the case of the proper
        Getae and in the case of Iranic tribes like Massagetae, Thyssagetae,
        remains unexplained (I have read somewhere that Massagetae could be
        interpreted as "fish eating Getae", Massa- being put in connectin
        with the Sanskritic word matsya "fish").

        With best regards,
        Francisc
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.