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Re: [gothic-l] (unknown)

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  • matthew carver
    hot - heits south(ward) - adv. sunthr north(ern) - adj. naurths (adv. = ? naurthr) on - ana (et al.) off - ab (et al.) feel - ? you have to name what exactly
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
      hot - heits
      south(ward) - adv. sunthr
      north(ern) - adj. naurths (adv. = ? naurthr)
      on - ana (et al.)
      off - ab (et al.)
      feel - ? you have to name what exactly is felt, i think, or use words to
      mean touch (tekan) or think (hugjan, munan, thugkjan, frathjan etc.)
      feelings - sense is 'frathi' or 'gahugds' - again, not common modern
      usage.
      close - galukan (verb to close), adj. (near, tight) lukns, adv. nehw(a)
      finish - ustiuhan
      blue - not attested. ? *blews
      gray - (adj) grews, greiseis, hasws, falws; (n) hawi
      brown - (adj) bruns
      yellow - not attested. but yellowish, pale (grayish) = falws. use golden
      (gultheins) or red (ruths) or bright (bairhts) perhaps.

      it really requires one to think differently about domains of meaning and
      examine one's idioms and ways of expression in comparison with those of
      gothic.

      -matthew


      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      > is this particular reading in gothic or what. is balan gothic for
      > horse- i dont know. but maybe you might know some word meanings i hadnt
      > found in wrights glossary or the german-gotisch glossary. here they
      > are-
      > hot,south,north,on,off,feel,feelings,close,finish,blue,gray,brown,yellow----ik
      > andbeiden izwar andwaurdwa.swa larsizuhain andbeiden skura
      > seina--nightly bath? afletan mein dwalipa waurdei, im swe sidondan
      > mein gutiska.---awiulidon bropar
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
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    • Егоров Владимир
      Hi Dirk! I do not think Russian belyi to have connection to Procopius balan .
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
        Hi Dirk!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



        I do not think Russian "belyi" to have connection
        to Procopius' "balan". First, the transition
        a -> e (half-long narrow sound) is not characteristic
        for the Russian language. Second, the white color
        is very specific, while Procopius wrote explicitly
        about the "dark gray" color.

        Perhaps the mentioned Greek "phalios" could be
        a cognate of English "pale"?
        But this is another pair of shoes.



        Vladimir



        -----Original Message-----
        From: faltin2001 [mailto:dirk@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:40 AM
        To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [gothic-l] Re: (unknown)


        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, ������ �������� <vegorov@i...> wrote:
        > Hi Greg!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-
        com:office:office" />
        >


        Hi Vladimir,

        perhaps 'belyi' Russian for white is a possible link? Not sure
        what 'white' would be in Old Slavonic.

        cheers
        Dirk









        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • OSCAR HERRERA
        matthew carver wrote:hot - heits south(ward) - adv. sunthr north(ern) - adj. naurths (adv. = ? naurthr) on - ana (et al.) off - ab (et
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
          matthew carver <me@...> wrote:hot - heits
          south(ward) - adv. sunthr
          north(ern) - adj. naurths (adv. = ? naurthr)
          on - ana (et al.)
          off - ab (et al.)
          feel - ? you have to name what exactly is felt, i think, or use words to
          mean touch (tekan) or think (hugjan, munan, thugkjan, frathjan etc.)
          feelings - sense is 'frathi' or 'gahugds' - again, not common modern
          usage.
          close - galukan (verb to close), adj. (near, tight) lukns, adv. nehw(a)
          finish - ustiuhan
          blue - not attested. ? *blews
          gray - (adj) grews, greiseis, hasws, falws; (n) hawi
          brown - (adj) bruns
          yellow - not attested. but yellowish, pale (grayish) = falws. use golden
          (gultheins) or red (ruths) or bright (bairhts) perhaps.

          it really requires one to think differently about domains of meaning and
          examine one's idioms and ways of expression in comparison with those of
          gothic.

          -matthew


          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          > is this particular reading in gothic or what. is balan gothic for
          > horse- i dont know. but maybe you might know some word meanings i hadnt
          > found in wrights glossary or the german-gotisch glossary. here they
          > are-
          > hot,south,north,on,off,feel,feelings,close,finish,blue,gray,brown,yellow----ik
          > andbeiden izwar andwaurdwa.swa larsizuhain andbeiden skura
          > seina--nightly bath? afletan mein dwalipa waurdei, im swe sidondan
          > mein gutiska.---awiulidon bropar
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank
          > email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
          >
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          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >


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          couple of more questions- in the word your which is izwar,is izwar pronounced as just the war part as var,so your saying var-your.also in reading other peoples work in gothic i noticed most of the words are suffixed different than their original meaning counterparts.do you know of a more teachable book and glossary other that i have free access to on internet.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • matthew carver
          oscar - izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The w is always w , not like v. It is the semivowel, not the bilabial continuant, in other words, like english w or
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
            oscar -

            izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The 'w' is always 'w', not like v.
            It is the semivowel, not the bilabial continuant, in other words,
            like english 'w' or perhaps spanish 'hu'. there are links on my
            website http://www.matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/. i think
            david salo had some lessons online, but i forget the exact
            address.

            -matthew

            On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 07:42 AM, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:
            >

            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            > couple of more questions- in the word your which is izwar,is izwar
            > pronounced as just the war part as var,so your saying var-your.also in
            > reading other peoples work in gothic i noticed most of the words are
            > suffixed different than their original meaning counterparts.do you know
            > of a more teachable book and glossary other that i have free access to
            > on internet.
          • OSCAR HERRERA
            matthew carver wrote:oscar - izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The w is always w , not like v. It is the semivowel, not the bilabial
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 20, 2003
              matthew carver <me@...> wrote:oscar -

              izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The 'w' is always 'w', not like v.
              It is the semivowel, not the bilabial continuant, in other words,
              like english 'w' or perhaps spanish 'hu'. there are links on my
              website http://www.matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/. i think
              david salo had some lessons online, but i forget the exact
              address.

              -matthew

              On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 07:42 AM, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:
              >

              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              > couple of more questions- in the word your which is izwar,is izwar
              > pronounced as just the war part as var,so your saying var-your.also in
              > reading other peoples work in gothic i noticed most of the words are
              > suffixed different than their original meaning counterparts.do you know
              > of a more teachable book and glossary other that i have free access to
              > on internet.


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              when you use words as verbs such word can be used differently and spelled differently---here are some examples---cut,cutter,cutting-----wait,waiting---look,looking---wait is beiden,waiting is beidendan?----cut is bimaitan, cutter is ?, cutting is bimaitandan---another words whatis appropriate suffixes for words like this are standard-+---also more words in gothic---ice,floor,wrong

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • OSCAR HERRERA
              matthew carver wrote:oscar - izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The w is always w , not like v. It is the semivowel, not the bilabial
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 20, 2003
                matthew carver <me@...> wrote:oscar -

                izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The 'w' is always 'w', not like v.
                It is the semivowel, not the bilabial continuant, in other words,
                like english 'w' or perhaps spanish 'hu'. there are links on my
                website http://www.matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/. i think
                david salo had some lessons online, but i forget the exact
                address.

                -matthew

                On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 07:42 AM, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:
                >

                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                > couple of more questions- in the word your which is izwar,is izwar
                > pronounced as just the war part as var,so your saying var-your.also in
                > reading other peoples work in gothic i noticed most of the words are
                > suffixed different than their original meaning counterparts.do you know
                > of a more teachable book and glossary other that i have free access to
                > on internet.


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                is the word for stop-gadaubjon.how about--- which,already---are you sure blue is blews.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Grsartor@aol.com
                Sorry for the tardy response. I suggest for a translation of Fire of life, make holy this place and keep out all evil : Fon þizos libainais, weihais þana
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 21, 2003
                  Sorry for the tardy response.

                  I suggest for a translation of "Fire of life, make holy this place and keep
                  out all evil":

                  "Fon þizos libainais, weihais þana staþ warjaizuh all þata ubil."

                  Perhaps "hina" would be a better choice for "this" than "þana", which has a
                  sense more like "the" or "that"; on the other hand, I am not sure how free we
                  should feel to use forms like "hina", and "himma". The surviving examples of
                  their use seem to suggest that they were mainly employed in particular
                  phrases, such as "himma daga", on this day.

                  Gerry T.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • greg scaff
                  Hails, My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your interest and insightful comments re: balan . I guess another question would be
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 25, 2003
                    Hails,

                    My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible Gothic?

                    cheers,

                    Greg






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                  • OSCAR HERRERA
                    greg scaff wrote: Hails, My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your interest and insightful comments re:
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 25, 2003
                      greg scaff <g_scaff@...> wrote:

                      Hails,

                      My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible Gothic?

                      cheers,

                      Greg






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                      ik naup gaskierjan af samma waurdws. sind---interest(ing),key,paper,minute(s),bath(bathes),color,paint,horse,fox,sex(y)----awiulidon bropar

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • matthew carver
                      hails greg- It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians and Sarmations seem to have loaned a few words to germanic languages in
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 26, 2003
                        hails greg-

                        It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians
                        and Sarmations seem to have loaned a few words to germanic languages in
                        general, or perhaps they came through Gothic (s.t. via Celtic, as marah-
                        'horse', cf. Green, Language & History...): paida 'leather coat' (< ?
                        riding coat), path- 'path (orig. a specific 'Scythian' path?), faths
                        'leader' (exhibiting the decimal model of the Persian/Iranian military
                        grouping). In Green, p. 81: "the possible presence of Gothic (or Gepid)
                        loanwords in Rumanian." (ref.: Bierbrauer [1994], 130. Diculescu [1921],
                        420ff. et al.)

                        -matthew


                        On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 04:33 PM, greg scaff wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Hails,
                        >
                        > My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your
                        > interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question
                        > would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh
                        > well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or
                        > has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any
                        > possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible
                        > Gothic?
                        >
                        > cheers,
                        >
                        > Greg
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
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                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • greg scaff
                        Hails Matthew, Very interesting-thank you, and thanks for the references. cheers, Greg matthew carver wrote:hails greg- It may be
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 26, 2003
                          Hails Matthew,
                          Very interesting-thank you, and thanks for the references.
                          cheers,
                          Greg
                          matthew carver <me@...> wrote:hails greg-

                          It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians
                          and Sarmations seem to have loaned a few words to germanic languages in
                          general, or perhaps they came through Gothic (s.t. via Celtic, as marah-
                          'horse', cf. Green, Language & History...): paida 'leather coat' (< ?
                          riding coat), path- 'path (orig. a specific 'Scythian' path?), faths
                          'leader' (exhibiting the decimal model of the Persian/Iranian military
                          grouping). In Green, p. 81: "the possible presence of Gothic (or Gepid)
                          loanwords in Rumanian." (ref.: Bierbrauer [1994], 130. Diculescu [1921],
                          420ff. et al.)

                          -matthew


                          On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 04:33 PM, greg scaff wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Hails,
                          >
                          > My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your
                          > interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question
                          > would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh
                          > well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or
                          > has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any
                          > possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible
                          > Gothic?
                          >
                          > cheers,
                          >
                          > Greg
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
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                          >
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                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          >
                          >
                          >


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                        • OSCAR HERRERA
                          matthew carver wrote:hails greg- It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians and Sarmations seem to have
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 29, 2003
                            matthew carver <me@...> wrote:hails greg-

                            It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians
                            and Sarmations seem to have loaned a few words to germanic languages in
                            general, or perhaps they came through Gothic (s.t. via Celtic, as marah-
                            'horse', cf. Green, Language & History...): paida 'leather coat' (< ?
                            riding coat), path- 'path (orig. a specific 'Scythian' path?), faths
                            'leader' (exhibiting the decimal model of the Persian/Iranian military
                            grouping). In Green, p. 81: "the possible presence of Gothic (or Gepid)
                            loanwords in Rumanian." (ref.: Bierbrauer [1994], 130. Diculescu [1921],
                            420ff. et al.)

                            -matthew


                            On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 04:33 PM, greg scaff wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > Hails,
                            >
                            > My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your
                            > interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question
                            > would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh
                            > well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or
                            > has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any
                            > possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible
                            > Gothic?
                            >
                            > cheers,
                            >
                            > Greg
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
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                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                            >


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                            hails matt--- ik swa naup samma waurdws du gaskeiran. her sind---stop,horse,sex,bugs, interest,do,tiger,lion,bear,paint,color,second,minute,animal,elephant,eagle,falcon. ive reading the corpus of the wulfila project and the translations are assumed and are not exact translations. also are crimean gothic words right translations. like eggs-ada or car-waghen and so forth. another word is cheese........ good luck--oscar

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