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introduction and a question

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  • Managarm
    Salvte! My name is Martin, I come from the northern part of Czech Republic (middle Europe) and I am 26. I am of german origin, work as a high school teacher. I
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 4, 2003
      Salvte!

      My name is Martin, I come from the northern part of Czech Republic (middle
      Europe) and I am 26. I am of german origin, work as a high school teacher.

      I like a lot of things. Nature, sport activity (adrenalin, extreme), music
      (neofolk, industrial, gothic, medieval, classical), mythology and religion
      of Indo-Europeans.
      I am one of clan leaders and godhar in the Czech Asatru.

      I am very interested in old crafts, art, lifestyle and morality. I like
      learning
      and studying languages. I speak Czech, English, French and not that good
      Russian and German (still improving).. I like Icelandic and old german
      languages
      like gutiska, which I wish to learn.

      The reason for learning gutiska - for me and my friends - is the need of a
      language
      of our ancestors and a language used here in ancient rituals and daily life.
      So also
      with its language we need to study deeply the history and crafts of Goths...

      We see gutiska being ideal for our purposes, for it is one of the oldest
      preserved german languages. We see the isolation and stopped develepoment of
      gutiska as a
      great plus. We dont only want to learn another ancient language, but we want
      to touch and get into thinking, morals, values and customs of ancient Goths
      this way.

      We are practicing Asatruar for some years, though it is more difficult with
      us.
      We are divide into clans that are autonomous and we differs clan to clan.

      We have some darker (Rokkr) types among us, while there are pure Odinists,
      Vanatics, Armanenists, normal Asatruar/Forn Sidhr, Viking reenactors,
      craftsmen and there are also tendencies to learn more about Theodism.

      Nevertheless, we decided to step more deeply into gutiska for many reasons.
      One of which is using gutiska in our ritual...


      We are free to communicate and link with individuals and groups.
      I am ready to exchange literature and music. :o)

      Thats for the introduction.


      Now my question. My friend who makes the blot for Ostara this year would
      like to know equivalent in gutiska for this sentence in ON:

      Fire of life, make holy this place and keep out (avoid) all evil?

      And for a name Ostara in gutiska?

      ...I wonder whether there is any list of names of gotish gods!?

      Best blood,
      Martin

      Managarm/HHFB
      http://www.asatru.cz/



      ---
      Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje zádné nám známé viry.
      Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz).
      Verze: 6.0.459 / Virová báze: 258 - datum vydání: 25.2.2003
    • greg scaff
      Hails, I am curious as to the origin of the word balan , mentioned in Procopius History of the Wars, V, XVlll, in my vol, p 173, ,,,and his whole body was
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 18, 2003
        Hails,

        I am curious as to the origin of the word "balan", mentioned in Procopius' History of the Wars, V, XVlll, in my vol, p 173, ",,,and his whole body was dark grey, except that his face from the top of his head to the nostrils was the purest white. Such a horse the Greeks call "phalius" and the barbarians "balan." Within the context of this passage it seems that Procopius was referring to Ostrogoths as the barbarians in question, but not definatively. I'm aware that "balan" is unattested as a Gothic word. Can it be identified as having a known Iranic/Turkic/Arabic or other origin? Are there any Germanic cognates? Has anyone studied this word before? I would appreciate your ideas and comments, thank you.

        Greg




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      • OSCAR HERRERA
        greg scaff wrote: Hails, I am curious as to the origin of the word balan , mentioned in Procopius History of the Wars, V, XVlll, in my
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 18, 2003
          greg scaff <g_scaff@...> wrote:
          Hails,

          I am curious as to the origin of the word "balan", mentioned in Procopius' History of the Wars, V, XVlll, in my vol, p 173, ",,,and his whole body was dark grey, except that his face from the top of his head to the nostrils was the purest white. Such a horse the Greeks call "phalius" and the barbarians "balan." Within the context of this passage it seems that Procopius was referring to Ostrogoths as the barbarians in question, but not definatively. I'm aware that "balan" is unattested as a Gothic word. Can it be identified as having a known Iranic/Turkic/Arabic or other origin? Are there any Germanic cognates? Has anyone studied this word before? I would appreciate your ideas and comments, thank you.

          Greg




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          is this particular reading in gothic or what. is balan gothic for horse- i dont know. but maybe you might know some word meanings i hadnt found in wrights glossary or the german-gotisch glossary. here they are- hot,south,north,on,off,feel,feelings,close,finish,blue,gray,brown,yellow----ik andbeiden izwar andwaurdwa.swa larsizuhain andbeiden skura seina--nightly bath? afletan mein dwalipa waurdei, im swe sidondan mein gutiska.---awiulidon bropar

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Егоров Владимир
          Hi Greg! I have not a direct answer on your question regarding the barbaric word
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 18, 2003
            Hi Greg!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



            I have not a direct answer on your question
            regarding the "barbaric" word "balan".
            But I draw your attention to the Russian word
            "bulany" as a horse color. "Bulany" is regularly
            translated in English as "dun" though old
            Russian explanatory dictionaries treat the notion
            as "ore-yellow, yellowish of diverse tints,
            with the mane and tail being black or deep-brown,
            and usually with a strap along spinal column".



            I do not know the exact origin of "bulany" but
            Turkic (Kuman) extraction looks most probable.
            I guess you should search in this direction.



            Good luck,

            Vladimir



            -----Original Message-----
            From: greg scaff [mailto:g_scaff@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 4:22 AM
            To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [gothic-l] (unknown)



            Hails,

            I am curious as to the origin of the word "balan", mentioned in Procopius' History of the Wars, V, XVlll, in my vol, p 173, ",,,and his whole body was dark grey, except that his face from the top of his head to the nostrils was the purest white. Such a horse the Greeks call "phalius" and the barbarians "balan." Within the context of this passage it seems that Procopius was referring to Ostrogoths as the barbarians in question, but not definatively. I'm aware that "balan" is unattested as a Gothic word. Can it be identified as having a known Iranic/Turkic/Arabic or other origin? Are there any Germanic cognates? Has anyone studied this word before? I would appreciate your ideas and comments, thank you.

            Greg




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          • faltin2001
            ... com:office:office / ... Hi Vladimir, perhaps belyi Russian for white is a possible link? Not sure what white would be in Old Slavonic. cheers Dirk
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
              --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, åÇÏÒÏ× ÷ÌÁÄÉÍÉÒ <vegorov@i...> wrote:
              > Hi Greg!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-
              com:office:office" />
              >
              >
              >
              > I have not a direct answer on your question
              > regarding the "barbaric" word "balan".
              > But I draw your attention to the Russian word
              > "bulany" as a horse color. "Bulany" is regularly
              > translated in English as "dun" though old
              > Russian explanatory dictionaries treat the notion
              > as "ore-yellow, yellowish of diverse tints,
              > with the mane and tail being black or deep-brown,
              > and usually with a strap along spinal column".
              >
              >
              >
              > I do not know the exact origin of "bulany" but
              > Turkic (Kuman) extraction looks most probable.
              > I guess you should search in this direction.
              >
              >
              >
              > Good luck,
              >
              > Vladimir
              >


              Hi Vladimir,

              perhaps 'belyi' Russian for white is a possible link? Not sure
              what 'white' would be in Old Slavonic.

              cheers
              Dirk










              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: greg scaff [mailto:g_scaff@y...]
              > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 4:22 AM
              > To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [gothic-l] (unknown)
              >
              >
              >
              > Hails,
              >
              > I am curious as to the origin of the word "balan", mentioned
              in Procopius' History of the Wars, V, XVlll, in my vol, p
              173, ",,,and his whole body was dark grey, except that his face from
              the top of his head to the nostrils was the purest white. Such a
              horse the Greeks call "phalius" and the barbarians "balan." Within
              the context of this passage it seems that Procopius was referring to
              Ostrogoths as the barbarians in question, but not definatively. I'm
              aware that "balan" is unattested as a Gothic word. Can it be
              identified as having a known Iranic/Turkic/Arabic or other origin?
              Are there any Germanic cognates? Has anyone studied this word
              before? I would appreciate your ideas and comments, thank you.
              >
              > Greg
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Francisc Czobor
              Hails, Greg in the Romanian language, balan means white or light-colored , with reference to horses (and sometimes it means also blonde , with reference
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
                Hails, Greg

                in the Romanian language, "balan" means "white" or "light-colored",
                with reference to horses (and sometimes it means also "blonde", with
                reference to humans). The word seems to be of Slavic origin (Old
                Slavonic belu "white"). It is interesting that the word mentioned by
                Procopius is identical with the modern Romanian form.

                Francisc

                --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, greg scaff <g_scaff@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Hails,
                >
                > I am curious as to the origin of the word "balan", mentioned
                in Procopius' History of the Wars, V, XVlll, in my vol, p
                173, ",,,and his whole body was dark grey, except that his face from
                the top of his head to the nostrils was the purest white. Such a
                horse the Greeks call "phalius" and the barbarians "balan." Within
                the context of this passage it seems that Procopius was referring to
                Ostrogoths as the barbarians in question, but not definatively. I'm
                aware that "balan" is unattested as a Gothic word. Can it be
                identified as having a known Iranic/Turkic/Arabic or other origin?
                Are there any Germanic cognates? Has anyone studied this word
                before? I would appreciate your ideas and comments, thank you.
                >
                > Greg
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a
                blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
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                >
                >
                >
                >
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                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • matthew carver
                Koebler suggests Go. *Bala- refers orig. to white , and spec. a horse with a white marking, i.e. a blaze (cf. Byz. balas ), prob.
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
                  Koebler suggests
                  Go. *Bala- refers orig. to 'white', and spec. a horse with a white
                  marking, i.e. a "blaze" (cf. Byz. 'balas'), prob. < s. germ. *bala-
                  "white, light, shining" < PIE (Pok.) *bha'-(1). THere is the gothic adj.
                  *bal-s, PIE *bhel-(1) v. ref. (Pok.). It may be an extended form in
                  *blagks < *blankaz "white" (> it. bianco, fr. blanc).

                  There is of course baltic similarity in Lith. balts "white", Rus. byel-.


                  -Matthew
                  On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 12:39 AM, faltin2001 wrote:

                  > --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, åÇÏÒÏ× ÷ÌÁÄÉÍÉÒ <vegorov@i...> wrote:
                  >> Hi Greg!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-
                  > com:office:office" />
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I have not a direct answer on your question
                  >> regarding the "barbaric" word "balan".
                  >> But I draw your attention to the Russian word
                  >> "bulany" as a horse color. "Bulany" is regularly
                  >> translated in English as "dun" though old
                  >> Russian explanatory dictionaries treat the notion
                  >> as "ore-yellow, yellowish of diverse tints,
                  >> with the mane and tail being black or deep-brown,
                  >> and usually with a strap along spinal column".
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I do not know the exact origin of "bulany" but
                  >> Turkic (Kuman) extraction looks most probable.
                  >> I guess you should search in this direction.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Good luck,
                  >>
                  >> Vladimir
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Vladimir,
                  >
                  > perhaps 'belyi' Russian for white is a possible link? Not sure
                  > what 'white' would be in Old Slavonic.
                  >
                  > cheers
                  > Dirk
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -----Original Message-----
                  >> From: greg scaff [mailto:g_scaff@y...]
                  >> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 4:22 AM
                  >> To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Subject: [gothic-l] (unknown)
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Hails,
                  >>
                  >> I am curious as to the origin of the word "balan", mentioned
                  > in Procopius' History of the Wars, V, XVlll, in my vol, p
                  > 173, ",,,and his whole body was dark grey, except that his face from
                  > the top of his head to the nostrils was the purest white. Such a
                  > horse the Greeks call "phalius" and the barbarians "balan." Within
                  > the context of this passage it seems that Procopius was referring to
                  > Ostrogoths as the barbarians in question, but not definatively. I'm
                  > aware that "balan" is unattested as a Gothic word. Can it be
                  > identified as having a known Iranic/Turkic/Arabic or other origin?
                  > Are there any Germanic cognates? Has anyone studied this word
                  > before? I would appreciate your ideas and comments, thank you.
                  >>
                  >> Greg
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a
                  > blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
                  >>
                  >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ---------------------------------
                  >> Do you Yahoo!?
                  >> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your
                  > desktop!
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >>
                  >> ADVERTISEMENT
                  >>
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                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • matthew carver
                  hot - heits south(ward) - adv. sunthr north(ern) - adj. naurths (adv. = ? naurthr) on - ana (et al.) off - ab (et al.) feel - ? you have to name what exactly
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
                    hot - heits
                    south(ward) - adv. sunthr
                    north(ern) - adj. naurths (adv. = ? naurthr)
                    on - ana (et al.)
                    off - ab (et al.)
                    feel - ? you have to name what exactly is felt, i think, or use words to
                    mean touch (tekan) or think (hugjan, munan, thugkjan, frathjan etc.)
                    feelings - sense is 'frathi' or 'gahugds' - again, not common modern
                    usage.
                    close - galukan (verb to close), adj. (near, tight) lukns, adv. nehw(a)
                    finish - ustiuhan
                    blue - not attested. ? *blews
                    gray - (adj) grews, greiseis, hasws, falws; (n) hawi
                    brown - (adj) bruns
                    yellow - not attested. but yellowish, pale (grayish) = falws. use golden
                    (gultheins) or red (ruths) or bright (bairhts) perhaps.

                    it really requires one to think differently about domains of meaning and
                    examine one's idioms and ways of expression in comparison with those of
                    gothic.

                    -matthew


                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    > is this particular reading in gothic or what. is balan gothic for
                    > horse- i dont know. but maybe you might know some word meanings i hadnt
                    > found in wrights glossary or the german-gotisch glossary. here they
                    > are-
                    > hot,south,north,on,off,feel,feelings,close,finish,blue,gray,brown,yellow----ik
                    > andbeiden izwar andwaurdwa.swa larsizuhain andbeiden skura
                    > seina--nightly bath? afletan mein dwalipa waurdei, im swe sidondan
                    > mein gutiska.---awiulidon bropar
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank
                    > email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
                    >
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                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Егоров Владимир
                    Hi Dirk! I do not think Russian belyi to have connection to Procopius balan .
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
                      Hi Dirk!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



                      I do not think Russian "belyi" to have connection
                      to Procopius' "balan". First, the transition
                      a -> e (half-long narrow sound) is not characteristic
                      for the Russian language. Second, the white color
                      is very specific, while Procopius wrote explicitly
                      about the "dark gray" color.

                      Perhaps the mentioned Greek "phalios" could be
                      a cognate of English "pale"?
                      But this is another pair of shoes.



                      Vladimir



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: faltin2001 [mailto:dirk@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 11:40 AM
                      To: gothic-l@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [gothic-l] Re: (unknown)


                      --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, ������ �������� <vegorov@i...> wrote:
                      > Hi Greg!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-
                      com:office:office" />
                      >


                      Hi Vladimir,

                      perhaps 'belyi' Russian for white is a possible link? Not sure
                      what 'white' would be in Old Slavonic.

                      cheers
                      Dirk









                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • OSCAR HERRERA
                      matthew carver wrote:hot - heits south(ward) - adv. sunthr north(ern) - adj. naurths (adv. = ? naurthr) on - ana (et al.) off - ab (et
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
                        matthew carver <me@...> wrote:hot - heits
                        south(ward) - adv. sunthr
                        north(ern) - adj. naurths (adv. = ? naurthr)
                        on - ana (et al.)
                        off - ab (et al.)
                        feel - ? you have to name what exactly is felt, i think, or use words to
                        mean touch (tekan) or think (hugjan, munan, thugkjan, frathjan etc.)
                        feelings - sense is 'frathi' or 'gahugds' - again, not common modern
                        usage.
                        close - galukan (verb to close), adj. (near, tight) lukns, adv. nehw(a)
                        finish - ustiuhan
                        blue - not attested. ? *blews
                        gray - (adj) grews, greiseis, hasws, falws; (n) hawi
                        brown - (adj) bruns
                        yellow - not attested. but yellowish, pale (grayish) = falws. use golden
                        (gultheins) or red (ruths) or bright (bairhts) perhaps.

                        it really requires one to think differently about domains of meaning and
                        examine one's idioms and ways of expression in comparison with those of
                        gothic.

                        -matthew


                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        > is this particular reading in gothic or what. is balan gothic for
                        > horse- i dont know. but maybe you might know some word meanings i hadnt
                        > found in wrights glossary or the german-gotisch glossary. here they
                        > are-
                        > hot,south,north,on,off,feel,feelings,close,finish,blue,gray,brown,yellow----ik
                        > andbeiden izwar andwaurdwa.swa larsizuhain andbeiden skura
                        > seina--nightly bath? afletan mein dwalipa waurdei, im swe sidondan
                        > mein gutiska.---awiulidon bropar
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank
                        > email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >


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                        couple of more questions- in the word your which is izwar,is izwar pronounced as just the war part as var,so your saying var-your.also in reading other peoples work in gothic i noticed most of the words are suffixed different than their original meaning counterparts.do you know of a more teachable book and glossary other that i have free access to on internet.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • matthew carver
                        oscar - izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The w is always w , not like v. It is the semivowel, not the bilabial continuant, in other words, like english w or
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 19, 2003
                          oscar -

                          izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The 'w' is always 'w', not like v.
                          It is the semivowel, not the bilabial continuant, in other words,
                          like english 'w' or perhaps spanish 'hu'. there are links on my
                          website http://www.matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/. i think
                          david salo had some lessons online, but i forget the exact
                          address.

                          -matthew

                          On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 07:42 AM, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:
                          >

                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          > couple of more questions- in the word your which is izwar,is izwar
                          > pronounced as just the war part as var,so your saying var-your.also in
                          > reading other peoples work in gothic i noticed most of the words are
                          > suffixed different than their original meaning counterparts.do you know
                          > of a more teachable book and glossary other that i have free access to
                          > on internet.
                        • OSCAR HERRERA
                          matthew carver wrote:oscar - izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The w is always w , not like v. It is the semivowel, not the bilabial
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 20, 2003
                            matthew carver <me@...> wrote:oscar -

                            izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The 'w' is always 'w', not like v.
                            It is the semivowel, not the bilabial continuant, in other words,
                            like english 'w' or perhaps spanish 'hu'. there are links on my
                            website http://www.matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/. i think
                            david salo had some lessons online, but i forget the exact
                            address.

                            -matthew

                            On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 07:42 AM, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:
                            >

                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            > couple of more questions- in the word your which is izwar,is izwar
                            > pronounced as just the war part as var,so your saying var-your.also in
                            > reading other peoples work in gothic i noticed most of the words are
                            > suffixed different than their original meaning counterparts.do you know
                            > of a more teachable book and glossary other that i have free access to
                            > on internet.


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                            when you use words as verbs such word can be used differently and spelled differently---here are some examples---cut,cutter,cutting-----wait,waiting---look,looking---wait is beiden,waiting is beidendan?----cut is bimaitan, cutter is ?, cutting is bimaitandan---another words whatis appropriate suffixes for words like this are standard-+---also more words in gothic---ice,floor,wrong

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • OSCAR HERRERA
                            matthew carver wrote:oscar - izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The w is always w , not like v. It is the semivowel, not the bilabial
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 20, 2003
                              matthew carver <me@...> wrote:oscar -

                              izwar is pronounced IZ-war. The 'w' is always 'w', not like v.
                              It is the semivowel, not the bilabial continuant, in other words,
                              like english 'w' or perhaps spanish 'hu'. there are links on my
                              website http://www.matthewcarver.com/gutrazda/. i think
                              david salo had some lessons online, but i forget the exact
                              address.

                              -matthew

                              On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 07:42 AM, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:
                              >

                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                              > couple of more questions- in the word your which is izwar,is izwar
                              > pronounced as just the war part as var,so your saying var-your.also in
                              > reading other peoples work in gothic i noticed most of the words are
                              > suffixed different than their original meaning counterparts.do you know
                              > of a more teachable book and glossary other that i have free access to
                              > on internet.


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                              is the word for stop-gadaubjon.how about--- which,already---are you sure blue is blews.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Grsartor@aol.com
                              Sorry for the tardy response. I suggest for a translation of Fire of life, make holy this place and keep out all evil : Fon þizos libainais, weihais þana
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 21, 2003
                                Sorry for the tardy response.

                                I suggest for a translation of "Fire of life, make holy this place and keep
                                out all evil":

                                "Fon þizos libainais, weihais þana staþ warjaizuh all þata ubil."

                                Perhaps "hina" would be a better choice for "this" than "þana", which has a
                                sense more like "the" or "that"; on the other hand, I am not sure how free we
                                should feel to use forms like "hina", and "himma". The surviving examples of
                                their use seem to suggest that they were mainly employed in particular
                                phrases, such as "himma daga", on this day.

                                Gerry T.


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • greg scaff
                                Hails, My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your interest and insightful comments re: balan . I guess another question would be
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 25, 2003
                                  Hails,

                                  My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible Gothic?

                                  cheers,

                                  Greg






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                                • OSCAR HERRERA
                                  greg scaff wrote: Hails, My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your interest and insightful comments re:
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 25, 2003
                                    greg scaff <g_scaff@...> wrote:

                                    Hails,

                                    My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible Gothic?

                                    cheers,

                                    Greg






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                                    ik naup gaskierjan af samma waurdws. sind---interest(ing),key,paper,minute(s),bath(bathes),color,paint,horse,fox,sex(y)----awiulidon bropar

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                                  • matthew carver
                                    hails greg- It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians and Sarmations seem to have loaned a few words to germanic languages in
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 26, 2003
                                      hails greg-

                                      It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians
                                      and Sarmations seem to have loaned a few words to germanic languages in
                                      general, or perhaps they came through Gothic (s.t. via Celtic, as marah-
                                      'horse', cf. Green, Language & History...): paida 'leather coat' (< ?
                                      riding coat), path- 'path (orig. a specific 'Scythian' path?), faths
                                      'leader' (exhibiting the decimal model of the Persian/Iranian military
                                      grouping). In Green, p. 81: "the possible presence of Gothic (or Gepid)
                                      loanwords in Rumanian." (ref.: Bierbrauer [1994], 130. Diculescu [1921],
                                      420ff. et al.)

                                      -matthew


                                      On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 04:33 PM, greg scaff wrote:

                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hails,
                                      >
                                      > My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your
                                      > interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question
                                      > would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh
                                      > well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or
                                      > has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any
                                      > possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible
                                      > Gothic?
                                      >
                                      > cheers,
                                      >
                                      > Greg
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ---------------------------------
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                                      > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
                                      >
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                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      > email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
                                      >
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                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • greg scaff
                                      Hails Matthew, Very interesting-thank you, and thanks for the references. cheers, Greg matthew carver wrote:hails greg- It may be
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 26, 2003
                                        Hails Matthew,
                                        Very interesting-thank you, and thanks for the references.
                                        cheers,
                                        Greg
                                        matthew carver <me@...> wrote:hails greg-

                                        It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians
                                        and Sarmations seem to have loaned a few words to germanic languages in
                                        general, or perhaps they came through Gothic (s.t. via Celtic, as marah-
                                        'horse', cf. Green, Language & History...): paida 'leather coat' (< ?
                                        riding coat), path- 'path (orig. a specific 'Scythian' path?), faths
                                        'leader' (exhibiting the decimal model of the Persian/Iranian military
                                        grouping). In Green, p. 81: "the possible presence of Gothic (or Gepid)
                                        loanwords in Rumanian." (ref.: Bierbrauer [1994], 130. Diculescu [1921],
                                        420ff. et al.)

                                        -matthew


                                        On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 04:33 PM, greg scaff wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hails,
                                        >
                                        > My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your
                                        > interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question
                                        > would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh
                                        > well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or
                                        > has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any
                                        > possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible
                                        > Gothic?
                                        >
                                        > cheers,
                                        >
                                        > Greg
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---------------------------------
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                                        > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        > email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
                                        >
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                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


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                                      • OSCAR HERRERA
                                        matthew carver wrote:hails greg- It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians and Sarmations seem to have
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Mar 29, 2003
                                          matthew carver <me@...> wrote:hails greg-

                                          It may be possible. The horse-riding tribes of the steppes, Scythians
                                          and Sarmations seem to have loaned a few words to germanic languages in
                                          general, or perhaps they came through Gothic (s.t. via Celtic, as marah-
                                          'horse', cf. Green, Language & History...): paida 'leather coat' (< ?
                                          riding coat), path- 'path (orig. a specific 'Scythian' path?), faths
                                          'leader' (exhibiting the decimal model of the Persian/Iranian military
                                          grouping). In Green, p. 81: "the possible presence of Gothic (or Gepid)
                                          loanwords in Rumanian." (ref.: Bierbrauer [1994], 130. Diculescu [1921],
                                          420ff. et al.)

                                          -matthew


                                          On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 04:33 PM, greg scaff wrote:

                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Hails,
                                          >
                                          > My thanks go to Dirk, Vladimir, Oscar, and of course Matthew for your
                                          > interest and insightful comments re: "balan". I guess another question
                                          > would be how accurate Procopius was in rendering a foreign word. Oh
                                          > well. I find it compelling that it means the same in Romania today,or
                                          > has the same form, as Francisc says, and wonder if their is any
                                          > possible actual connection between the Romanian form and the possible
                                          > Gothic?
                                          >
                                          > cheers,
                                          >
                                          > Greg
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ---------------------------------
                                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                                          > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
                                          >
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                                          >
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                                          >
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                                          > email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com>.
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                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


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                                          hails matt--- ik swa naup samma waurdws du gaskeiran. her sind---stop,horse,sex,bugs, interest,do,tiger,lion,bear,paint,color,second,minute,animal,elephant,eagle,falcon. ive reading the corpus of the wulfila project and the translations are assumed and are not exact translations. also are crimean gothic words right translations. like eggs-ada or car-waghen and so forth. another word is cheese........ good luck--oscar

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