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Suartuas - the ON Connection

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  • Bertil Haggman
    Troels, Maybe one should mention in this connection Surt (the Black), who was the keeper of the underworld fire (see Gylfaginning). On Iceland connected with
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 31, 2002
      Troels,

      Maybe one should mention in this connection
      Surt (the Black), who was the keeper of the
      underworld fire (see Gylfaginning). On Iceland
      connected with volcanic activity. Surt was
      guardian of Muspelheim and played an
      important role in Ragnaroek.

      The question should also possibly touch on the
      question of Surt/Surtur/SurtR being a common ON
      first name.

      Finally in general terms personal Eruli names, if not
      neutral or Gothic, seem to be Scandinavian ( compare Alvith,
      Fara, Fulkaris, Hariso, (H)aruth, (H)rodvulf).

      Gothically

      Bertil


      > Could Procopius' name Suartuas be the ON name Surtur/SurtR?
    • faltin2001
      ... What makes the names Fara, Fulkaris, Hariso, Haruth and Rodulf, particularly Scandinavian? Fara, is clearly an east Germanic name, which was also used by
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
        --- In gothic-l@y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b@t...> wrote:
        > Troels,
        >
        > Maybe one should mention in this connection
        > Surt (the Black), who was the keeper of the
        > underworld fire (see Gylfaginning). On Iceland
        > connected with volcanic activity. Surt was
        > guardian of Muspelheim and played an
        > important role in Ragnaroek.
        >
        > The question should also possibly touch on the
        > question of Surt/Surtur/SurtR being a common ON
        > first name.
        >
        > Finally in general terms personal Eruli names, if not
        > neutral or Gothic, seem to be Scandinavian ( compare Alvith,
        > Fara, Fulkaris, Hariso, (H)aruth, (H)rodvulf).



        What makes the names Fara, Fulkaris, Hariso, Haruth and Rodulf,
        particularly Scandinavian? Fara, is clearly an east Germanic name,
        which was also used by some Bavarian dukes; Fulkaris and its
        derivation are still in existence in Germany and Frisia; Hariso was
        mentioned as a *femal* name on a fibula from Denmark, but the Herul
        with that name was a man. The name Rodulf is in no way specifically
        Scandinavian either, but is common Germanic.

        The PN Suarto/Swarto (old high German/low German suart/swart means
        black) is given repeatedly in the lists of monks and abbots of South
        German monastries (Lorsch) from the 7th and 8th centuries and a court
        official/regional administrator at the court of Ludwig the Pious was
        called Swarto in the early 9th century. It was also argued that the
        tribal name Suardones means the Black - maybe the PN Suartuas/Suarto
        was derived from this tribal name, just like Saxo means the Saxon,
        Friso the Frisian, or Hasso the Hessian?

        Dirk




        >
        > Gothically
        >
        > Bertil
        >
        >
        > > Could Procopius' name Suartuas be the ON name Surtur/SurtR?
      • troels_brandt
        When I asked it was not my intention to repeat the discussion from last November - and what followed. The names below were discussed, and there was no doubt,
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
          When I asked it was not my intention to repeat the discussion from
          last November - and what followed.

          The names below were discussed, and there was no doubt, that Suart
          could mean Black.
          The problem regarding Suartuas is the second "a".

          Troels



          --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
          > --- In gothic-l@y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b@t...> wrote:
          > > Troels,
          > >
          > > Maybe one should mention in this connection
          > > Surt (the Black), who was the keeper of the
          > > underworld fire (see Gylfaginning). On Iceland
          > > connected with volcanic activity. Surt was
          > > guardian of Muspelheim and played an
          > > important role in Ragnaroek.
          > >
          > > The question should also possibly touch on the
          > > question of Surt/Surtur/SurtR being a common ON
          > > first name.
          > >
          > > Finally in general terms personal Eruli names, if not
          > > neutral or Gothic, seem to be Scandinavian ( compare Alvith,
          > > Fara, Fulkaris, Hariso, (H)aruth, (H)rodvulf).
          >
          >
          >
          > What makes the names Fara, Fulkaris, Hariso, Haruth and Rodulf,
          > particularly Scandinavian? Fara, is clearly an east Germanic name,
          > which was also used by some Bavarian dukes; Fulkaris and its
          > derivation are still in existence in Germany and Frisia; Hariso was
          > mentioned as a *femal* name on a fibula from Denmark, but the Herul
          > with that name was a man. The name Rodulf is in no way specifically
          > Scandinavian either, but is common Germanic.
          >
          > The PN Suarto/Swarto (old high German/low German suart/swart means
          > black) is given repeatedly in the lists of monks and abbots of
          South
          > German monastries (Lorsch) from the 7th and 8th centuries and a
          court
          > official/regional administrator at the court of Ludwig the Pious
          was
          > called Swarto in the early 9th century. It was also argued that the
          > tribal name Suardones means the Black - maybe the PN
          Suartuas/Suarto
          > was derived from this tribal name, just like Saxo means the Saxon,
          > Friso the Frisian, or Hasso the Hessian?
          >
          > Dirk
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Gothically
          > >
          > > Bertil
          > >
          > >
          > > > Could Procopius' name Suartuas be the ON name Surtur/SurtR?
        • Bertil Haggman
          Troels, Agree that the a is a problem. Have seen in some German sources the name Suartuas spelled Swartwa (note svart in modern Swedish). Surtr means the
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
            Troels,

            Agree that the "a" is a problem. Have seen in some
            German sources the name Suartuas spelled "Swartwa"
            (note svart in modern Swedish).
            Surtr means "the black one" and maybe the concept of Surtr
            as enemy of the gods originate in Iceland. Maybe Einar
            might have a view on that? Surtr was the guard of
            Muspell. Have found only a few article directly connected
            to Surtr ( B.S Phillpots, 'Surt' (ANF 21) 1905 and A. Holtsmark,
            'Surtr' (KLNM 17) 1972.

            Maybe these articles contain some information of value
            in your search.

            Gothically

            Bertil


            > When I asked it was not my intention to repeat the discussion from
            > last November - and what followed.
            >
            > The names below were discussed, and there was no doubt, that Suart
            > could mean Black.
            > The problem regarding Suartuas is the second "a".
          • Bertil Haggman
            Troels, Have checked SAOB, 32nd vol, Lund, and Surt is not listed while Surturbrand is connected to the fire giant Surtr that in Norse mythology started
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 1, 2002
              Troels,

              Have checked SAOB, 32nd vol, Lund, and Surt
              is not listed while Surturbrand is connected to the
              fire giant Surtr that in Norse mythology started Ragnaroek,
              in turn connected to fnv. svartr (Icelandic svartur).
              There should be more under svart in SAOB.

              Gothically

              Bertil

              > When I asked it was not my intention to repeat the discussion from
              > last November - and what followed.
              >
              > The names below were discussed, and there was no doubt, that Suart
              > could mean Black.
              > The problem regarding Suartuas is the second "a".
            • einarbirg
              ... Sorry for a late answer. I was staying in a summerhouse. No computers. I cannot help you here!. Surtur is related to ´sorta,svartur,syrta´. All this
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 6, 2002
                --- In gothic-l@y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b@t...> wrote:
                > Troels,
                >
                > Agree that the "a" is a problem. Have seen in some
                > German sources the name Suartuas spelled "Swartwa"
                > (note svart in modern Swedish).
                > Surtr means "the black one" and maybe the concept of Surtr
                > as enemy of the gods originate in Iceland. Maybe Einar
                > might have a view on that? Surtr was the guard of
                > Muspell. Have found only a few article directly connected
                > to Surtr ( B.S Phillpots, 'Surt' (ANF 21) 1905 and A. Holtsmark,
                > 'Surtr' (KLNM 17) 1972.
                >
                > Maybe these articles contain some information of value
                > in your search.
                >
                > Gothically
                >
                > Bertil

                > ######## Hi Bertil.
                Sorry for a late answer. I was staying in a summerhouse. No computers.
                I cannot help you here!. Surtur is related to ´sorta,svartur,syrta´.
                All this names have to do with black or dark colors.
                Surtr was a rather unfine name. Mainly used for a Fire Giant. But
                sometimes used in the Book of Settlement.

                Bless, Einar ###########
                >
                > > When I asked it was not my intention to repeat the discussion
                from
                > > last November - and what followed.
                > >
                > > The names below were discussed, and there was no doubt, that
                Suart
                > > could mean Black.
                > > The problem regarding Suartuas is the second "a".
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