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Re: Heyderdahl

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  • faltin2001
    ... Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this nowadays. There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural remains in the area north
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 9, 2002
      >
      > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after they
      > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.


      Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this nowadays.
      There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural remains
      in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been plenty
      of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is probably
      more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived further west
      of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as the
      Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area in the
      first place.

      Dirk
    • tigerlipped
      ... remains ... plenty ... west ... Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if you please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 9, 2002
        --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:

        >

        > >
        > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after they
        > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
        >
        >
        > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this nowadays.
        > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
        remains
        > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
        plenty
        > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is probably
        > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived further
        west
        > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as the
        > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area in the
        > first place.
        >
        > Dirk

        Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if you
        please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by Thomas
        Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
        Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
        Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
        leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.

        When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into its
        normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with a
        great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to locate his
        tomb?

        Hilsen
      • faltin2001
        ... they ... nowadays. ... probably ... the ... Thomas ... his ... Hi Hilsen, I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric s grave. If I
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 9, 2002
          --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
          > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          > > >
          > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after
          they
          > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
          > >
          > >
          > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
          nowadays.
          > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
          > remains
          > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
          > plenty
          > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
          probably
          > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived further
          > west
          > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as the
          > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area in
          the
          > > first place.
          > >
          > > Dirk
          >
          > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if you
          > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by
          Thomas
          > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
          > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
          > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
          > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
          >
          > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into its
          > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with a
          > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to locate
          his
          > tomb?
          >
          > Hilsen


          Hi Hilsen,

          I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
          grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s caused
          some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
          discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
          Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody arround
          anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)

          The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
          treasure hunters in future:

          „Nächtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus den
          Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! / Und
          den Fluß hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, / Die
          den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"

          cheers
          Dirk
        • tigerlipped
          ... Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I wouldn t mind being the ear
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 9, 2002
            --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
            > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
            > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
            > > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after
            > they
            > > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
            > nowadays.
            > > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
            > > remains
            > > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
            > > plenty
            > > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
            > probably
            > > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived further
            > > west
            > > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as the
            > > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area in
            > the
            > > > first place.
            > > >
            > > > Dirk
            > >
            > > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if you
            > > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by
            > Thomas
            > > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
            > > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
            > > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
            > > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
            > >
            > > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into its
            > > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with a
            > > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to locate
            > his
            > > tomb?
            > >
            > > Hilsen
            >
            >
            > Hi Hilsen,
            >
            > I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
            > grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s caused
            > some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
            > discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
            > Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody arround
            > anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)
            >
            > The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
            > treasure hunters in future:
            >
            > „Nächtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus den
            > Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! / Und
            > den Fluß hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, / Die
            > den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"
            >
            > cheers
            > Dirk

            Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my
            curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I wouldn't
            mind being the ear into which the eddying Busento whispers it's
            watery secrets. (Did I receive the gist of the verse?) Thank you
            again.;-)

            Hilsen
          • faltin2001
            ... after ... further ... the ... in ... you ... its ... a ... locate ... arround ... den ... Und ... Die ... wouldn t ... Something like that, yes. Don t
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 10, 2002
              --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
              > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
              > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
              > > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants
              after
              > > they
              > > > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
              > > nowadays.
              > > > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
              > > > remains
              > > > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
              > > > plenty
              > > > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
              > > probably
              > > > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived
              further
              > > > west
              > > > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as
              the
              > > > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area
              in
              > > the
              > > > > first place.
              > > > >
              > > > > Dirk
              > > >
              > > > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if
              you
              > > > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by
              > > Thomas
              > > > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
              > > > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
              > > > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
              > > > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
              > > >
              > > > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into
              its
              > > > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with
              a
              > > > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to
              locate
              > > his
              > > > tomb?
              > > >
              > > > Hilsen
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Hilsen,
              > >
              > > I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
              > > grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s caused
              > > some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
              > > discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
              > > Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody
              arround
              > > anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)
              > >
              > > The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
              > > treasure hunters in future:
              > >
              > > „Nächtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus
              den
              > > Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! /
              Und
              > > den Fluß hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, /
              Die
              > > den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"
              > >
              > > cheers
              > > Dirk
              >
              > Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my
              > curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I
              wouldn't
              > mind being the ear into which the eddying Busento whispers it's
              > watery secrets. (Did I receive the gist of the verse?) Thank you
              > again.;-)
              >
              > Hilsen


              Something like that, yes. Don't worry if you find that difficult, I
              had to learn the whole poem in school, but the structure of the
              sentences is so complicated that I found that extremely difficult,
              even as native speaker.

              cheers,
              Dirk
            • Pat Christiansen
              ... after ... further ... the ... in ... you ... its ... a ... locate ... arround ... den ... Und ... Die ... wouldn t ... Something like that, yes. Don t
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 10, 2002
                faltin2001 <dirk@...> wrote:
                --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                > > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants
                after
                > > they
                > > > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
                > > nowadays.
                > > > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
                > > > remains
                > > > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
                > > > plenty
                > > > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
                > > probably
                > > > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived
                further
                > > > west
                > > > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as
                the
                > > > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area
                in
                > > the
                > > > > first place.
                > > > >
                > > > > Dirk
                > > >
                > > > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if
                you
                > > > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by
                > > Thomas
                > > > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
                > > > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
                > > > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
                > > > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
                > > >
                > > > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into
                its
                > > > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with
                a
                > > > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to
                locate
                > > his
                > > > tomb?
                > > >
                > > > Hilsen
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi Hilsen,
                > >
                > > I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
                > > grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s caused
                > > some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
                > > discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
                > > Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody
                arround
                > > anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)
                > >
                > > The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
                > > treasure hunters in future:
                > >
                > > �N�chtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus
                den
                > > Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! /
                Und
                > > den Flu� hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, /
                Die
                > > den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"
                > >
                > > cheers
                > > Dirk
                >
                > Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my
                > curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I
                wouldn't
                > mind being the ear into which the eddying Busento whispers it's
                > watery secrets. (Did I receive the gist of the verse?) Thank you
                > again.;-)
                >
                > Hilsen


                Something like that, yes. Don't worry if you find that difficult, I
                had to learn the whole poem in school, but the structure of the
                sentences is so complicated that I found that extremely difficult,
                even as native speaker.

                cheers,
                Dirk


                Thank you, Dirk, for your reply. I just realized I have not given you or the readers of this site my name. It is, Ben, and I live in Western Canada, and the U.S..I am interested in the origin of the so-called Indo-European languages. Are you in Germany? If so, what part?

                Ben



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              • faltin2001
                ... Goti. ... cultural ... been ... area ... by ... the ... Gothic ... with ... caused ... you or the readers of this site my name. It is, Ben, and I live in
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 11, 2002
                  --- In gothic-l@y..., Pat Christiansen <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > faltin2001 <dirk@s...> wrote:
                  > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                  > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                  > > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants
                  > after
                  > > > they
                  > > > > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the
                  Goti.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
                  > > > nowadays.
                  > > > > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk)
                  cultural
                  > > > > remains
                  > > > > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has
                  been
                  > > > > plenty
                  > > > > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
                  > > > probably
                  > > > > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived
                  > further
                  > > > > west
                  > > > > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as
                  > the
                  > > > > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the
                  area
                  > in
                  > > > the
                  > > > > > first place.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Dirk
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if
                  > you
                  > > > > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted
                  by
                  > > > Thomas
                  > > > > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
                  > > > > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410,
                  the
                  > > > > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the
                  Gothic
                  > > > > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into
                  > its
                  > > > > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried
                  with
                  > a
                  > > > > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to
                  > locate
                  > > > his
                  > > > > tomb?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hilsen
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi Hilsen,
                  > > >
                  > > > I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
                  > > > grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s
                  caused
                  > > > some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
                  > > > discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
                  > > > Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody
                  > arround
                  > > > anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)
                  > > >
                  > > > The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
                  > > > treasure hunters in future:
                  > > >
                  > > > „Nächtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus
                  > den
                  > > > Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! /
                  > Und
                  > > > den Fluß hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, /
                  > Die
                  > > > den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"
                  > > >
                  > > > cheers
                  > > > Dirk
                  > >
                  > > Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my
                  > > curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I
                  > wouldn't
                  > > mind being the ear into which the eddying Busento whispers it's
                  > > watery secrets. (Did I receive the gist of the verse?) Thank you
                  > > again.;-)
                  > >
                  > > Hilsen
                  >
                  >
                  > Something like that, yes. Don't worry if you find that difficult, I
                  > had to learn the whole poem in school, but the structure of the
                  > sentences is so complicated that I found that extremely difficult,
                  > even as native speaker.
                  >
                  > cheers,
                  > Dirk
                  >
                  >
                  > Thank you, Dirk, for your reply. I just realized I have not given
                  you or the readers of this site my name. It is, Ben, and I live in
                  Western Canada, and the U.S..I am interested in the origin of the so-
                  called Indo-European languages. Are you in Germany? If so, what part?
                  >
                  > Ben
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  Hi Ben,

                  I am German, from northern Germany (Lower Saxony), but I am living in
                  London with my family at the moment.

                  cheers
                  Dirk
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