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Heyderdahl

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  • Bertil Haggman
    As far as I know the Heyerdahl excavations (Heyerdahl passed way this spring) had no connection to the Ostrogoths. The latest book by Thor Heyerdahl and his
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 8 11:47 AM
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      As far as I know the Heyerdahl excavations (Heyerdahl passed
      way this spring) had no connection to the Ostrogoths. The latest
      book by Thor Heyerdahl and his Swedish co-writer has been
      widely discussed on the Gothic-L and if you search the archive
      you can find much on the subject.

      If you want to know more try the title of the book, _Odin in Azov_ in
      one of the search engines.

      The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after they
      migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.

      Gothically

      Bertil Haggman

      > Has Heyderdahl's excavations in Russia been connected in any way to
      > the Ostrogoths? It seems a natural.
    • faltin2001
      ... Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this nowadays. There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural remains in the area north
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 9 2:48 AM
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        >
        > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after they
        > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.


        Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this nowadays.
        There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural remains
        in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been plenty
        of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is probably
        more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived further west
        of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as the
        Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area in the
        first place.

        Dirk
      • tigerlipped
        ... remains ... plenty ... west ... Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if you please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 9 8:29 AM
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          --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:

          >

          > >
          > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after they
          > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
          >
          >
          > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this nowadays.
          > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
          remains
          > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
          plenty
          > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is probably
          > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived further
          west
          > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as the
          > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area in the
          > first place.
          >
          > Dirk

          Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if you
          please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by Thomas
          Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
          Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
          Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
          leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.

          When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into its
          normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with a
          great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to locate his
          tomb?

          Hilsen
        • faltin2001
          ... they ... nowadays. ... probably ... the ... Thomas ... his ... Hi Hilsen, I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric s grave. If I
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 9 9:09 AM
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            --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
            > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after
            they
            > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
            > >
            > >
            > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
            nowadays.
            > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
            > remains
            > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
            > plenty
            > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
            probably
            > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived further
            > west
            > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as the
            > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area in
            the
            > > first place.
            > >
            > > Dirk
            >
            > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if you
            > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by
            Thomas
            > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
            > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
            > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
            > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
            >
            > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into its
            > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with a
            > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to locate
            his
            > tomb?
            >
            > Hilsen


            Hi Hilsen,

            I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
            grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s caused
            some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
            discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
            Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody arround
            anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)

            The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
            treasure hunters in future:

            „Nächtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus den
            Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! / Und
            den Fluß hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, / Die
            den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"

            cheers
            Dirk
          • tigerlipped
            ... Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I wouldn t mind being the ear
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 9 9:31 AM
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              --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
              > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
              > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
              > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > > >
              > > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants after
              > they
              > > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
              > nowadays.
              > > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
              > > remains
              > > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
              > > plenty
              > > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
              > probably
              > > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived further
              > > west
              > > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as the
              > > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area in
              > the
              > > > first place.
              > > >
              > > > Dirk
              > >
              > > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if you
              > > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by
              > Thomas
              > > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
              > > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
              > > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
              > > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
              > >
              > > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into its
              > > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with a
              > > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to locate
              > his
              > > tomb?
              > >
              > > Hilsen
              >
              >
              > Hi Hilsen,
              >
              > I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
              > grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s caused
              > some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
              > discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
              > Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody arround
              > anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)
              >
              > The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
              > treasure hunters in future:
              >
              > „Nächtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus den
              > Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! / Und
              > den Fluß hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, / Die
              > den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"
              >
              > cheers
              > Dirk

              Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my
              curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I wouldn't
              mind being the ear into which the eddying Busento whispers it's
              watery secrets. (Did I receive the gist of the verse?) Thank you
              again.;-)

              Hilsen
            • faltin2001
              ... after ... further ... the ... in ... you ... its ... a ... locate ... arround ... den ... Und ... Die ... wouldn t ... Something like that, yes. Don t
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 10 1:58 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                > > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants
                after
                > > they
                > > > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
                > > nowadays.
                > > > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
                > > > remains
                > > > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
                > > > plenty
                > > > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
                > > probably
                > > > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived
                further
                > > > west
                > > > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as
                the
                > > > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area
                in
                > > the
                > > > > first place.
                > > > >
                > > > > Dirk
                > > >
                > > > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if
                you
                > > > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by
                > > Thomas
                > > > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
                > > > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
                > > > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
                > > > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
                > > >
                > > > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into
                its
                > > > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with
                a
                > > > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to
                locate
                > > his
                > > > tomb?
                > > >
                > > > Hilsen
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi Hilsen,
                > >
                > > I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
                > > grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s caused
                > > some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
                > > discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
                > > Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody
                arround
                > > anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)
                > >
                > > The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
                > > treasure hunters in future:
                > >
                > > „Nächtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus
                den
                > > Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! /
                Und
                > > den Fluß hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, /
                Die
                > > den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"
                > >
                > > cheers
                > > Dirk
                >
                > Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my
                > curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I
                wouldn't
                > mind being the ear into which the eddying Busento whispers it's
                > watery secrets. (Did I receive the gist of the verse?) Thank you
                > again.;-)
                >
                > Hilsen


                Something like that, yes. Don't worry if you find that difficult, I
                had to learn the whole poem in school, but the structure of the
                sentences is so complicated that I found that extremely difficult,
                even as native speaker.

                cheers,
                Dirk
              • Pat Christiansen
                ... after ... further ... the ... in ... you ... its ... a ... locate ... arround ... den ... Und ... Die ... wouldn t ... Something like that, yes. Don t
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 10 8:46 AM
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                  faltin2001 <dirk@...> wrote:
                  --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                  > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                  > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                  > > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants
                  after
                  > > they
                  > > > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the Goti.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
                  > > nowadays.
                  > > > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk) cultural
                  > > > remains
                  > > > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has been
                  > > > plenty
                  > > > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
                  > > probably
                  > > > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived
                  further
                  > > > west
                  > > > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as
                  the
                  > > > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the area
                  in
                  > > the
                  > > > > first place.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Dirk
                  > > >
                  > > > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if
                  you
                  > > > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted by
                  > > Thomas
                  > > > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
                  > > > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410, the
                  > > > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the Gothic
                  > > > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
                  > > >
                  > > > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into
                  its
                  > > > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried with
                  a
                  > > > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to
                  locate
                  > > his
                  > > > tomb?
                  > > >
                  > > > Hilsen
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Hilsen,
                  > >
                  > > I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
                  > > grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s caused
                  > > some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
                  > > discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
                  > > Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody
                  arround
                  > > anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)
                  > >
                  > > The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
                  > > treasure hunters in future:
                  > >
                  > > �N�chtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus
                  den
                  > > Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! /
                  Und
                  > > den Flu� hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, /
                  Die
                  > > den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"
                  > >
                  > > cheers
                  > > Dirk
                  >
                  > Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my
                  > curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I
                  wouldn't
                  > mind being the ear into which the eddying Busento whispers it's
                  > watery secrets. (Did I receive the gist of the verse?) Thank you
                  > again.;-)
                  >
                  > Hilsen


                  Something like that, yes. Don't worry if you find that difficult, I
                  had to learn the whole poem in school, but the structure of the
                  sentences is so complicated that I found that extremely difficult,
                  even as native speaker.

                  cheers,
                  Dirk


                  Thank you, Dirk, for your reply. I just realized I have not given you or the readers of this site my name. It is, Ben, and I live in Western Canada, and the U.S..I am interested in the origin of the so-called Indo-European languages. Are you in Germany? If so, what part?

                  Ben



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                • faltin2001
                  ... Goti. ... cultural ... been ... area ... by ... the ... Gothic ... with ... caused ... you or the readers of this site my name. It is, Ben, and I live in
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 11 2:50 AM
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                    --- In gothic-l@y..., Pat Christiansen <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > faltin2001 <dirk@s...> wrote:
                    > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                    > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                    > > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "tigerlipped" <tigerlipped@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > The area of the Heyerdahl search had Eruli inhabitants
                    > after
                    > > > they
                    > > > > > > migrated to northern shore of the Black Sea after the
                    Goti.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Russian and Ukrainian archaeologists seem to dispute this
                    > > > nowadays.
                    > > > > > There has been no trace of Germanic (Chernyakhovsk)
                    cultural
                    > > > > remains
                    > > > > > in the area north of the Sea of Azov. Instead, there has
                    been
                    > > > > plenty
                    > > > > > of evidence that Sarmatians and Alans living there. It is
                    > > > probably
                    > > > > > more reasonable to assume that the Eastern Heruls lived
                    > further
                    > > > > west
                    > > > > > of the Black Sea (Moldova?), perhaps in the same region as
                    > the
                    > > > > > Eudosiani, together with whom they may have reached the
                    area
                    > in
                    > > > the
                    > > > > > first place.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Dirk
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thank you for your replies to my question. I have another, if
                    > you
                    > > > > please. According to Jordanes, (De Rebus Geticis, as quoted
                    by
                    > > > Thomas
                    > > > > Hodgkin,'Barbarian Invasion of the Roman Empire. page 464 I
                    > > > > Visigothic Invasions) when Alaric died at Cosenza, in 410,
                    the
                    > > > > Busento was diverted from its normal course so that the
                    Gothic
                    > > > > leader's grave could be excavated beneath it.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > When the tomb was finished, the stream was directed back into
                    > its
                    > > > > normal channel. According to legend (?) Alaric was buried
                    with
                    > a
                    > > > > great deal of treasure. Has any attempt ever been made to
                    > locate
                    > > > his
                    > > > > tomb?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hilsen
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Hilsen,
                    > > >
                    > > > I understand that many attempts have been made to find Alaric's
                    > > > grave. If I remember correctly, a news-report in the 1980s
                    caused
                    > > > some uproar when it claimed that the grave of Alaric had been
                    > > > discovered. The place turned out to be from the 9th century.
                    > > > Unfortunately, with Heyerdahl dead there is probably nobody
                    > arround
                    > > > anymore to launch an expedition to find Alaric's grave;-)
                    > > >
                    > > > The poem by August Graf von Platen will probably inspire many
                    > > > treasure hunters in future:
                    > > >
                    > > > „Nächtlich am Busento lispeln bei Cosenza dumpfe Lieder; / Aus
                    > den
                    > > > Wassern schallt es Antwort, und in Wirbeln klingt es wieder! /
                    > Und
                    > > > den Fluß hinauf, hinunter ziehn die Schatten tapferer Goten, /
                    > Die
                    > > > den Alarich beweinen, ihres Volkes besten Toten......"
                    > > >
                    > > > cheers
                    > > > Dirk
                    > >
                    > > Thank you Dirk for your interesting reply. You have whetted my
                    > > curiosity.Although my German is wanting, to say the least, I
                    > wouldn't
                    > > mind being the ear into which the eddying Busento whispers it's
                    > > watery secrets. (Did I receive the gist of the verse?) Thank you
                    > > again.;-)
                    > >
                    > > Hilsen
                    >
                    >
                    > Something like that, yes. Don't worry if you find that difficult, I
                    > had to learn the whole poem in school, but the structure of the
                    > sentences is so complicated that I found that extremely difficult,
                    > even as native speaker.
                    >
                    > cheers,
                    > Dirk
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you, Dirk, for your reply. I just realized I have not given
                    you or the readers of this site my name. It is, Ben, and I live in
                    Western Canada, and the U.S..I am interested in the origin of the so-
                    called Indo-European languages. Are you in Germany? If so, what part?
                    >
                    > Ben
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    Hi Ben,

                    I am German, from northern Germany (Lower Saxony), but I am living in
                    London with my family at the moment.

                    cheers
                    Dirk
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