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Re: Goths, Gauti, Goetaland, Gotland

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  • hrafnsnest
    Tore wrote: I still maintain that the prelude to the Viking age is the ... Hail Tore! I am completely facsinated by the possible (H)erul expansion and
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 22, 2002
      Tore wrote: "I still maintain that the prelude to the Viking age is
      the
      > immigration of the Heruls to Lake Mälar area and their expansion in
      > the Baltic with Gotlandic and Svear colonies in present day Baltic
      > states and later on into the Russian river system and to Norway,
      > British isles-Island."

      Hail Tore!
      I am completely facsinated by the possible (H)erul expansion and
      settlement into the areas that you mention, especially Iceland.
      Rather than read through the many postings regarding this issue, I
      shall ask the following, what are your principal sources, from what
      geographical point(s) do you see them eminating from? And what
      information is there to point to the (H)eruls movement to Iceland?

      Odhvaknir
    • Tore Gannholm
      ... Hi! I never indicated that the Heruls moved to Iceland. This is something that Einar Birgisson has brought up. You have to ask him for his sources. I have
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 22, 2002
        >Tore wrote: "I still maintain that the prelude to the Viking age is
        >the
        >> immigration of the Heruls to Lake Mälar area and their expansion in
        >> the Baltic with Gotlandic and Svear colonies in present day Baltic
        >> states and later on into the Russian river system and to Norway,
        >> British isles-Island."
        >
        >Hail Tore!
        > I am completely facsinated by the possible (H)erul expansion and
        >settlement into the areas that you mention, especially Iceland.
        >Rather than read through the many postings regarding this issue, I
        >shall ask the following, what are your principal sources, from what
        >geographical point(s) do you see them eminating from? And what
        >information is there to point to the (H)eruls movement to Iceland?
        >
        >Odhvaknir
        >

        Hi!

        I never indicated that the Heruls moved to Iceland. This is something
        that Einar Birgisson has brought up. You have to ask him for his
        sources.

        I have only stated that there is an immigration of a ruling class to
        the Lake Mälar area beginning 6th century. Later that century the
        rulers of the Lake Mälar area together with the Gotlanders
        established colonies on the East coast of the Baltic. Excavations in
        Grobin, Apuole and Elbing.
        In the 9th century they extended their travels to the Russian rivers
        and we find large Scandinavian gravefields.

        Tore
        --
      • hrafnsnest
        Hail Tore! My apologies. I mistook ..British isles - Island. , for Iceland. What type of things are they finding at these sites that would indicate they were
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 23, 2002
          Hail Tore!
          My apologies. I mistook "..British isles - Island.", for Iceland.
          What type of things are they finding at these sites that would
          indicate they were (H)eruli?
          Odhvaknir

          > I never indicated that the Heruls moved to Iceland. This is
          something
          > that Einar Birgisson has brought up. You have to ask him for his
          > sources.
          >
          > I have only stated that there is an immigration of a ruling class
          to
          > the Lake Mälar area beginning 6th century. Later that century the
          > rulers of the Lake Mälar area together with the Gotlanders
          > established colonies on the East coast of the Baltic. Excavations
          in
          > Grobin, Apuole and Elbing.
          > In the 9th century they extended their travels to the Russian
          rivers
          > and we find large Scandinavian gravefields.
          >
          > Tore
          > --
        • Tore Gannholm
          Hi! Have you read my conclusions on http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/parla_/svear/default.htm Tore ... --
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 23, 2002
            Hi!
            Have you read my conclusions on
            http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/parla_/svear/default.htm

            Tore

            >Hail Tore!
            >My apologies. I mistook "..British isles - Island.", for Iceland.
            >What type of things are they finding at these sites that would
            >indicate they were (H)eruli?
            >Odhvaknir
            >
            >> I never indicated that the Heruls moved to Iceland. This is
            >something
            >> that Einar Birgisson has brought up. You have to ask him for his
            >> sources.
            >>
            >> I have only stated that there is an immigration of a ruling class
            >to
            >> the Lake Mälar area beginning 6th century. Later that century the
            >> rulers of the Lake Mälar area together with the Gotlanders
            >> established colonies on the East coast of the Baltic. Excavations
            >in
            >> Grobin, Apuole and Elbing.
            >> In the 9th century they extended their travels to the Russian
            >rivers
            >> and we find large Scandinavian gravefields.
            >>
            >> Tore
            > > --

            --
          • hrafnsnest
            Hail Tore! I just left your site, great info., and I am not in disagreement with your conclusions. But a question, I know that the names of tribes can
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 23, 2002
              Hail Tore!
              I just left your site, great info., and I am not in disagreement with
              your conclusions. But a question, I know that the names of tribes
              can sometimes get garbled by the medievalist records keeper,
              f.ex., "East Goth and West Goth" became "Goth and Magoth" from the
              biblical "Gog and Magog". That said, if the Romans are calling a
              particular people "the (H)eruli", then who is calling the Svear "the
              Svear"?
              And, in your opinion, how do the 1st person "ek erilaR" runestones,
              which appear during the same time period, fit into the puzzle, after
              all, they don't say "ek Suear"?
              Finally, where is Grobin, Apuole and Elbing?
              Odhvaknir
            • Tore Gannholm
              Hi! Have you read Guns, Germs and Steel The Fates of Human Societies Jared Diamond Sometimes the conqueror adopts the customs, religion and language (or part
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 23, 2002
                Hi!
                Have you read
                Guns, Germs and Steel
                The Fates of Human Societies
                Jared Diamond

                Sometimes the conqueror adopts the customs, religion and language (or
                part of it) from the conquered people. Sometimes it is the other way
                round.

                The name Svear is not used used until later. In Beowulf they are
                called Scylfinga. The name Svear is not used yet. We are not even
                sure they called themselves Heruls. It could be the Romans that
                called them Heruls?!

                Grobin is close to Libau in Latvija and Apoule is a little further inland.

                Elibing or Elblag is east of Gdansk in Poland.

                Tore




                >Hail Tore!
                >I just left your site, great info., and I am not in disagreement with
                >your conclusions. But a question, I know that the names of tribes
                >can sometimes get garbled by the medievalist records keeper,
                >f.ex., "East Goth and West Goth" became "Goth and Magoth" from the
                >biblical "Gog and Magog". That said, if the Romans are calling a
                >particular people "the (H)eruli", then who is calling the Svear "the
                >Svear"?
                >And, in your opinion, how do the 1st person "ek erilaR" runestones,
                >which appear during the same time period, fit into the puzzle, after
                >all, they don't say "ek Suear"?
                >Finally, where is Grobin, Apuole and Elbing?
                >Odhvaknir
                >

                --

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