Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Goths, Goetaland, Gotland

Expand Messages
  • Bertil Haggman
    Dear listmembers, It is important to remember that the question of the origin of the Goths is not solved and is the matter of extensive debate, on this list
    Message 1 of 7 , May 27, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear listmembers,

      It is important to remember that the question of the origin
      of the Goths is not solved and is the matter of extensive
      debate, on this list and elsewhere. It is therefore important
      to note that some of the German language material produced
      (I am excepting Peter Arens) should be read with great
      caution. For those who do not read German the book below
      is providing some information of interest.

      _The Role of Migration in the History of the
      Eurasian Steppe - Sedentary Civilization vs. -
      'Barbarian' and Nomad, (ed. Andrew Bell-Fialkoff),
      London: Macmillan, 2000, 355 pp.
      __________________________________________________

      One of the great controversies in Gothic history
      is the question of the origin of the Goths. Unless
      some sensational material appears this question
      will never be solved.

      The new book edited by Bell-Fialkoff accepts that
      Jordanes Scandza is Scandinavia. He accepts that
      archaeological evidence is inconclusive:

      "It does confirm the existence of the Gotho-Gepidan
      culture in Pomerania and lower Vistula at this time
      (the so-called Wielbark culture) and links it to seven
      specific elements. But only one of these can be
      archaelogically traced to Scandinavia. Even more
      significant is the fact that the Wielbark culture had
      already acquired its distinctiveness by the time of the
      putative Gothic migration from Scandinavia. These
      considerations make some scholars doubt the veracity
      of the Gothic tradition.

      And yet, there are several factors that support the
      traditional version. First, East Germanic languages
      (of which Gothic was one) were closer to North Germanic
      (i.e. Scandinavian) tongues than to West Germanic ones.
      Such affinity implies a close relationship, if not direct
      derivation. The toponymics of the island of Gotland,
      as well as the modern Swedish provinces of Oester-
      and Vaestergoetland, where the Goths had supposedly
      originated, also show linguistic affinity. Second. Count
      Oxenstierna excavated incineration burials in Oester-
      and Vaestergoetland that, numerous in the second and
      first centuries B.C. suddenly became rare after about
      50 B.C. This would suggest a disappearance of a
      significant portion of the previous population."

      Carlo Alberto Mastrelli in Volker Bierbauer et al,
      _I Goti_, Milan: Electa Lombardia, Elemond Editori
      Associati, 1994.

      Graf E.C. Oxenstierna, _Die Urheimat der Goten_.
      Leipzig, Mannus-Buecherei 73, 1945 (later printed
      in 1948).

      Gothically

      Bertil


      > This book by Musset, is basically a reprint of his work published in
      > the 1970s. Unfortunately, no effort was made to take account of the
      > developments of the past 25 years. The quotes below are a good
      > example, of how outdated the book is. In fact, it is often not even
      > refered to in new research. If somebody has limited funds to spend,
      > don't waste it on this book and get something more up-to-date. ;-)
    • faltin2001
      ... A good recent book on the subject is: The visigoths from the migration period to the seventh century. an ethnographic perspective. edited by Peter Heather
      Message 2 of 7 , May 28, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In gothic-l@y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b@t...> wrote:
        > Dear listmembers,
        >
        > It is important to remember that the question of the origin
        > of the Goths is not solved and is the matter of extensive
        > debate, on this list and elsewhere. It is therefore important
        > to note that some of the German language material produced
        > (I am excepting Peter Arens) should be read with great
        > caution. For those who do not read German the book below
        > is providing some information of interest.



        A good recent book on the subject is:

        The visigoths from the migration period to the seventh century. an
        ethnographic perspective. edited by Peter Heather
        Studies in historical archaeoethnology. vol. 4
        Woodbridge. Boydell Press. 1999

        In the first contribution, the participants of the symposium on which
        the book is based discuss the question of the origin of the Goths.
        Once again, none of them believed that the old theory of a
        Scandinavian homeland can be supported anymore. Especially, if you
        read the recent books, by Heather, Todd, and Pohl, it is clear that
        the question is not as 'unresolved' as some may want it to see, the
        evidence is already plentiful.

        There is alo no need to read this modern literature with caution
        (unless the author is a hobby historian and journalist like Peter
        Arens, or course).

        Dirk
      • Bertil Haggman
        Thank you, Ingemar, for your latest contribution. Below are a few books to balance off Walter Pohl (who is he, BTW). Bell-Fialkoff, A., _The Role of Migration
        Message 3 of 7 , May 31, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you, Ingemar, for your latest contribution.

          Below are a few books to balance off Walter Pohl (who is
          he, BTW).

          Bell-Fialkoff, A., _The Role of Migration in the History of
          the Eurasian Steppe_, London: Macmillan, 2000.

          Findeisen, Joerg-Peter, _Schweden - Von den Anfaengen bis zur
          Gegenwart_, Regensburg: Verlag Friedrich Pustet, 1998.

          Hermodsson, Lars, _Goterna - ett krigafolk och dess bibel_ ,
          Stockholm, Atlantis, 1993.

          Nordgren, I., Goterkaellan - om goterna i Norden och paa
          kontinenten_, Skara: Vaestergoetlands museums skriftserie nr
          30, 2000.

          Rodin, L. - Lindblom, V. - Klang, K., _Gudatraed och vaestgoetska
          skottkungar - Sveriges bysantiska arv_, Goeteborg: Tre boecker,
          1994.

          _Schaetze der Ostgoten_, Stuttgart: Theiss, 1995.

          _Studia Gotica - Die eisenzeitlichen Verbindungen zwischen Schweden
          und Suedosteuropa - Vortraege beim Gotensymposion im Statens
          Historiska Museum_, Stockholm 1970.

          Tacitus, _Germania_, (with introduction and commentary by J.B. Rives),
          Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1999.

          Gothically

          Bertil



          > There is a more recent book, by a real historian and real experts
          > (not a hobby historian and journalist like Peter Arens), which should
          > be most interesting for those still flogging the Scandinavian origin
          > theory.
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.