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Re: [gothic-l] Hello

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  • Oskar Andersson
    Welcome, ... I don t know what you could possibly mean with this. A supposed blood connection is absurd talk, and the Goths were a VERY polyethnic composition
    Message 1 of 36 , May 23, 2002
      Welcome,

      > Iam new to this group, but Iam have strong interest in the Gothic
      > peoples of Europe. I still to believe that the peoples of southern
      > Sweden, and Gotland, Northern Germany, Western Russia, and English
      > people (distant relation;will be discuused) have Goth blood that runs
      > in their veins.

      I don't know what you could possibly mean with this. A supposed blood
      connection is absurd talk, and the Goths were a VERY polyethnic composition to
      say the least. For instance, the Visigothic ethnogenesis (378-418AD) involved
      peoples like Huns, Taifali and Vandals to a certain degree. The Ostrogoths appearing
      after the fall of Attila and the Hunnic Kingdom (after 454AD) were clearly blended to
      some degree with Huns, and certainly Sarmatian and Alani elements must have been present
      as well.

      Moreover, the first Goths are attested in modern Poland (Wielbark culture, 1st century)
      by Strabo 16-18AD (Gutones), and I don't know about any early connections to English
      people at all - that would be very anachronistic!Please provide a source for such a statement!
      You will find eloquent discussions about a supposed Scandinavian influence on the
      Wielbark culture if you search through the archives of this list!


      They are a very unique group of people, as 300
      > century they conquered nealy all of Scythia, blandeting all Scythia
      > tribes and 'slammed' into the Black sea far south.

      By 250AD the migration had definitely reached the Ukrainian steppes, and Goths are attested in
      Dacia as well (251AD - the defeat of Decius and his army outside Abrittus/Razgrad - modern Bulgary).
      There is no way of saying that the Goths conquered all of the Scythian lands if you take into consideration
      that the Scythian dominion possibly reached as far as the Caspian Sea and Caucasus
      (see Malcolm Todd's latest book!) and to my knowledge the Goths are not attested that far!
      Concerning the extent of Ermenaric's lands (Scythia and Germania according to Jordanes),
      there is once again eloquent discussions on the matter in the archives of this list.


      They also migrated
      > west towards the Rhein river, crossed it, and have emulated with
      > other peoples and other who have split the tribe and established own
      > tribes in Germany, which interculturalted many German tribes and
      > peoples. Then the West Goths, or politically correct the Visigoths,
      > crossed the Rhein to conquer Spain of course. They have been seen
      > very barbaric and one of the worst what the Romans called, but their
      > culture favored the Romans as much as they wanted an Empire like the
      > Romans.

      If you are referring to the famous crossing in 406/407AD, I must inform you that the Goths were no
      attested part of this - the Suevi, Vandals and Alans passed. A major part of the Greutungi had been
      subjugated by the Huns from 375AD and they remained under them until 454AD.
      The Goths didn't cross the river Rhine on their way to Gaul and later Spain. They went through
      Italy and entered Gaul in 412AD, under Athaulf.

      > Al

      Best,
      Oskar
    • Friþureiks
      Hi! This comes very late but I answer anyway. I think it would be better with frijaba instead of frije. The word for life is libains (sf) if i m not totaly
      Message 36 of 36 , Oct 22, 2009
        Hi!
        This comes very late but I answer anyway.
        I think it would be better with frijaba instead of frije.
        The word for life is libains (sf) if i'm not totaly wrong.
        I don't know if giban takes any special case but i'd guess it should be accusative, hence "Ik giba frijaba libain meina" (if dative: libainai meinai)

        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Claire Knudsen-Latta" <clairemargery@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello the list!
        >
        >
        >
        > I am working on a gift for a friend who is a member of the SCA. My
        > experience is in Anglo-Saxon and Old Norse and am having trouble with the
        > lack of vocabulary in Gothic. Would someone who is more apt with the Gothic
        > language please take a look at the below sentence and, once they stop
        > laughing, point me in the direction of correct grammar. I've got the Gothic
        > above and English below. ((th) is being substituted for thorn, my computer
        > is having a day.)
        >
        >
        >
        > Claire
        >
        >
        >
        > Her kaupo ai(th)am mi(th) Wista-waipam. Ik giba frije liban meinai jah
        > andbahti fri(th)au jah hriggam.
        >
        >
        >
        > Here I trade oaths with the Crown of the West. I freely give my life (I
        > wanted 'loyalty' but couldn't find a form of hyldo/hold in Gothic) and
        > service for protection and rings.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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