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[gothic-l] Gothic Influence on OE

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  • Le Bateman
    I have been having trouble posting this because I have new email service and I have not gotten the hang of it yet. My main question is How much of an
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 25, 1999
        I have been having trouble posting this because I have new email service and I have not gotten the  hang of it yet. My main question is How much of an influence did Gothic  have on Ealde Englisc? I could see the similarity in Wulfia's Ik and the Ealde Englisc Ic also Norse Ik all of these have a commonality. Would it be proprer to say all of their homeland might have been Paleolithic era Scandia. Perhaps 15,000 or more years ago. Of course I only have one source that brings out this point Palle Lauring's History of Denmark. I might be able to locate another source or two, Turville-Petrie's Myth and Religion of the North, and his Heroic Age of Scandinavia mentions this what page at the moment I cannot cite. The Teutons got their  name from a river in Scandinavia Denmark perhaps. Frith and Troth
      Le

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    • mcarver
      I don t know where you got your info, Le, beside Petrie. But I m sure he didn t mention all the things you did. I d first have to say that the concept of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 25, 1999
        I don't know where you got your info, Le, beside Petrie. But I'm sure
        he didn't mention all the things you did. I'd first have to say that
        the concept of Gothic "influencing" Old English is faulty; it would
        be more correct to say that the two were related, that they share
        a relatively common origin in the unattested proto-language of the Germanic
        language branch of the Indo-European tree. More information may
        be obtained from the following resources:

        Orrin W. Robinson: Old English and Its Closest Relatives : A Survey of
        the Earliest Germanic Languages

        Dennis Green: Language and History in the Early Germanic World

        Wright: Grammar of the Gothic Language

        Bennett, Lehmann: An Introduction to the Gothic Language
        (BTW anybody know that they're releasing a 1999 edition?!)

        Also upcoming soon in Gothica Studies:
        Five Texts in Etruscan : Early Gothic Language of Tyrrhenians and
        Ancient Jutes
        (Berkeley Insights in Linguistics and Semiotics, Vol. 36)
        Ilse Nesbitt Jones(Editor) 1999

        Anyone read this book? It sounds interesting, if indeed it pertains to
        the "real" Goths:
        Goths and the Concept of Gothic in Germany from 1500 to 1750 : Culture
        Language and Architecture
        Sonia Brough, 1985



        Matthaius


        > Le Bateman wrote:
        >
        > I have been having trouble posting this because I have new email
        > service and I have not gotten the hang of it yet. My main question is
        > How much of an influence did Gothic have on Ealde Englisc? I could
        > see the similarity in Wulfia's Ik and the Ealde Englisc Ic also Norse
        > Ik all of these have a commonality. Would it be proprer to say all of
        > their homeland might have been Paleolithic era Scandia. Perhaps 15,000
        > or more years ago. Of course I only have one source that brings out
        > this point Palle Lauring's History of Denmark. I might be able to
        > locate another source or two, Turville-Petrie's Myth and Religion
        > of the North, and his Heroic Age of Scandinavia mentions this what
        > page at the moment I cannot cite. The Teutons got their name from a
        > river in Scandinavia Denmark perhaps. Frith and Troth
        > Le

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      • Tomas Mac an Chrosain
        I have read about the Crimean Goths from the analysis in your past posting and the book by Bennett some years ago. I am curious to know just what happened to
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 26, 1999
          I have read about the Crimean Goths from the analysis in your past
          posting and the book by Bennett some years ago. I am curious to know
          just what happened to the Goths of Eastern Europe who stayed in the area
          of Ukraine and Crimea. If they did survive as late as the 16th or 17th
          century, then their descendants must have been assimilated into
          Ukrainian language. Is there any information about them? The Ossets as
          descendants of Scytho-Sarmations survived in the Caucasus region divided
          on each side of the Russian and Georgian borders. Crimea was under the
          control of the Byzantine Empire for a long time. Did the Byzantine
          empire offer them a place of protection from the incoming Altaic and
          Turkic invasions? Did Goths join up with the Slavs in defending Kiev and
          in time become assimilated?
          At any rate, I tried to order a copy of the Gothic grammars of Wright
          etc. but I was told they were out of print.
          Tom

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        • Grsartor@aol.com
          I got a copy of Wright s Grammar of the Gothic Language not so long ago from Amazon UK. Gerry. ... eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 26, 1999
            I got a copy of Wright's Grammar of the Gothic Language not so long ago from
            Amazon UK.

            Gerry.

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          • Alex Loepp
            Check out this glossary that shows some of the direct correlations between Gothic and Old English...........it s from Wright s Grammar:
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 27, 1999
              Check out this glossary that shows some of the direct correlations between Gothic and Old English...........it's from Wright's Grammar:
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 3:02 PM
              Subject: [gothic-l] Gothic Influence on OE

                I have been having trouble posting this because I have new email service and I have not gotten the  hang of it yet. My main question is How much of an influence did Gothic  have on Ealde Englisc? I could see the similarity in Wulfia's Ik and the Ealde Englisc Ic also Norse Ik all of these have a commonality. Would it be proprer to say all of their homeland might have been Paleolithic era Scandia. Perhaps 15,000 or more years ago. Of course I only have one source that brings out this point Palle Lauring's History of Denmark. I might be able to locate another source or two, Turville-Petrie's Myth and Religion of the North, and his Heroic Age of Scandinavia mentions this what page at the moment I cannot cite. The Teutons got their  name from a river in Scandinavia Denmark perhaps. Frith and Troth
              Le

              eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l
              www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

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            • Mieke van Breukelen
              Sorry for crossposting. Tomas, I am working on the same subject and would be glad to hear if you receive any information on the subject offlist. Mieke van
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 1, 1999
                Sorry for crossposting.

                Tomas,
                I am working on the same subject and would be glad to hear if you receive
                any information on the subject offlist.

                Mieke van Breukelen
                miekeb@...

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Tomas Mac an Chrosain <crosan@...>
                To: gothic-l@egroups.com <gothic-l@egroups.com>
                Date: 26 èþíÿ 1999 ã. 9:38
                Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Gothic Influence on OE


                >I have read about the Crimean Goths from the analysis in your past
                >posting and the book by Bennett some years ago. I am curious to know
                >just what happened to the Goths of Eastern Europe who stayed in the area
                >of Ukraine and Crimea. If they did survive as late as the 16th or 17th
                >century, then their descendants must have been assimilated into
                >Ukrainian language. Is there any information about them? The Ossets as
                >descendants of Scytho-Sarmations survived in the Caucasus region divided
                >on each side of the Russian and Georgian borders. Crimea was under the
                >control of the Byzantine Empire for a long time. Did the Byzantine
                >empire offer them a place of protection from the incoming Altaic and
                >Turkic invasions? Did Goths join up with the Slavs in defending Kiev and
                >in time become assimilated?
                >At any rate, I tried to order a copy of the Gothic grammars of Wright
                >etc. but I was told they were out of print.
                >Tom
                >
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                >
                >
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                >


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              • Sean Crist
                ... Wright s grammar was just reprinted in 1997; I d be quite surprised if there were no copies of that printing left. / __ __ _ _ --Sean Crist
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 1, 1999
                  On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Mieke van Breukelen wrote:

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Tomas Mac an Chrosain <crosan@...>
                  >
                  > >At any rate, I tried to order a copy of the Gothic grammars of Wright
                  > >etc. but I was told they were out of print.

                  Wright's grammar was just reprinted in 1997; I'd be quite surprised if
                  there were no copies of that printing left.

                  \/ __ __ _\_ --Sean Crist (kurisuto@...)
                  --- | | \ / http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/
                  _| ,| ,| -----
                  _| ,| ,| [_]
                  | | | [_]




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                • Tomas Mac an Chrosain
                  Mieke: I ve not been able to research this topic yet. You must be well ahead of me! I am only a beginner at Gothic and I subscribed to this list to help
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 1, 1999
                    Mieke:
                    I've not been able to research this topic yet. You must be well ahead of
                    me! I am only a beginner at Gothic and I subscribed to this list to help
                    motivate me to get started. I have been fascinated with the Goths off
                    and on since the early 90s. I had been in Austin at the Un of Texas
                    library perusing two books on Gothic and the Crimean Gothic book. The
                    destiny of these late Goths has been one of those things that has made
                    me curious for all of these years. So I am interested in the Goths and
                    ancient history of Germanic peoples for a long time..as well as the
                    Celts, Scythians, Thracians ,Tocharians and the other Indo-European
                    speaking peoples.
                    Do let me know what you find out and I hope to see you publish. If and
                    when you do, I'll be interested in ordering a copy!
                    Dank U,
                    Tomas


                    Mieke van Breukelen wrote:
                    >
                    > Sorry for crossposting.
                    >
                    > Tomas,

                    > I am working on the same subject and would be glad to hear if you receive
                    > any information on the subject offlist.
                    >
                    > Mieke van Breukelen
                    > miekeb@...
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Tomas Mac an Chrosain <crosan@...>
                    > To: gothic-l@egroups.com <gothic-l@egroups.com>
                    > Date: 26 èþíÿ 1999 ã. 9:38
                    > Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Gothic Influence on OE
                    >
                    > >I have read about the Crimean Goths from the analysis in your past
                    > >posting and the book by Bennett some years ago. I am curious to know
                    > >just what happened to the Goths of Eastern Europe who stayed in the area
                    > >of Ukraine and Crimea. If they did survive as late as the 16th or 17th
                    > >century, then their descendants must have been assimilated into
                    > >Ukrainian language. Is there any information about them? The Ossets as
                    > >descendants of Scytho-Sarmations survived in the Caucasus region divided
                    > >on each side of the Russian and Georgian borders. Crimea was under the
                    > >control of the Byzantine Empire for a long time. Did the Byzantine
                    > >empire offer them a place of protection from the incoming Altaic and
                    > >Turkic invasions? Did Goths join up with the Slavs in defending Kiev and
                    > >in time become assimilated?
                    > >At any rate, I tried to order a copy of the Gothic grammars of Wright
                    > >etc. but I was told they were out of print.
                    > >Tom

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