Visigoths and Ostrogoths
Have already quoted Jordanes on the Ostrogoths
and Visigoths in the 4th century. But basically
I think the designations are unimportant. More
interesting is that two peoples emerged before
the Visigoths moved to Gaul and Spain.
I will let Ingemar explain this based partly, I guess,
on his excellent recent book on the Goths.
The question of the origin of the Goths has been debated endlessly on
this list. So far no complete evidence has been presented that
places the ethnogenesis of the Goths in northern Poland.
Lately the discussion has evolved into mentioning
names, which are supposed to provide the evidence for
this ethnogenesis. The fact is that further answers may
only be provided by the study of ancient DNA. Some
valuable research has been done in England and
and new evidence may be provided from archaelogical
research in Italy and Spain.
Ingemar's book _Goterkaellan - om goterna
i norden och paa kontinenten_ (2000) is providing a study that
points to a south Scandinavian origin. I would also like to
refer to the excellent _Schaetze der Ostgoten_ (1995), first
recommended to me by Tore. In the latter book there is strong
Polish support for the Scandinavian origin.
_Studia Gotica - Die eisenzeitliche Verbindungen zwischen
Schweden und Suedosteuropa_ (1972) can provide the interested
reader with information on the migration of the Goths from
The story of the opposing views can be found in the archives
of this list which basically is a list for the Gothic language.
> Oskar,They seem not too unimportant as you seem fond to make use of them,
> Have already quoted Jordanes on the Ostrogoths
> and Visigoths in the 4th century. But basically
> I think the designations are unimportant. More
> interesting is that two peoples emerged before
> the Visigoths moved to Gaul and Spain.
and unfortunately I think, anachronistically. Both terms are used quite
frequently in different places, and I think it is time to clarify the issue - for
the sake of it! Considering that the migrations of the Goths, from the Black Sea
region and into the Empire, is of paramount historical importance I think it is of
great worth to get it right. It is important in excavating Gothic identity too if we are
able to discern Visigoths and Ostrogoths prior to the different kingdoms in Gaul/Spain
> I will let Ingemar explain this based partly, I guess,I look forward to that!
> on his excellent recent book on the Goths.
> The question of the origin of the Goths has been debated endlessly on
> this list. So far no complete evidence has been presented that
> places the ethnogenesis of the Goths in northern Poland.
> Lately the discussion has evolved into mentioning
> names, which are supposed to provide the evidence for
> this ethnogenesis. The fact is that further answers may
> only be provided by the study of ancient DNA. Some
> valuable research has been done in England and
> and new evidence may be provided from archaelogical
> research in Italy and Spain.
- Dear Bertil,
my friend Andrzej Kokowsi, who is responsible for "Die Schätze der
Ostgoten", is an excellent archeologist, but unfortunately not a
historian and he did not use (and did not cite) Wolfram's and
Heather's books on the Goths for his historic introduction, but relied
on older historic literature. In the archeological part of the catalogue
he follows the mainstream of modern Polish archeology and defines
the Wielbark culture as autochthonous. His attempt to combine Ernst
Schwarz and Wenskus as historians with his archeological expertise
gives a misleading picture. It was a nice exhibition at Holzminden
(and I gave a lecture on the history of the Goths there which gave a
slightly different view at least to the people who attended it), but I
would not rely on Andrzej Kokowski's historic introduction to the very
fine archeological catalogue he produced for it.
Institut fuer oesterreichische Geschichtsforschung
A 1010 Wien