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Re: Trailing the Eruli in the North

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  • troels_brandt
    ... Yes, but if they got land, Odoaker did not have to pay them in coins. This was probably his way to tie them. ... Exactly - and after earlier admitting my
    Message 1 of 81 , Jan 3, 2002
      --- In gothic-l@y..., "faltin2001" <dirk@s...> wrote:
      >
      > > The Herulian mercenaries of Odoacer got land as wages - or the
      > income
      > > hereof. How do you know in which coinage they got their income?
      >
      > Since they were in Italy they will have received primarily coins of
      > the Italian mints. In fact, Grierson and Blackburn stated in 'Early
      > Medieval Coinage' that the strong increase in Italian mint activity
      > in the late 470s reflected Odoaker's need to pay off his solidiers
      > and mercenaries.


      Yes, but if they got land, Odoaker did not have to pay them in coins.
      This was probably his way to tie them.


      > That is true, but since it was you how wrongly called
      > the Basiliscus coin in the Ottar mound 'a coin of Odoaker'
      > I felt it necessary to clarify this.
      >
      > >I regard the coin in Ottars mound as symbolic.
      >
      >
      > Well I think it shows that this king Ottar or people in his
      > vicinity had some sort of contact with Constantinopel.


      Exactly - and after earlier admitting my misunderstanding I
      understood from you, that the coin was from 476/77. The year 476 AD
      is said to be important in Uppsala's Aun-calender - and symbolic in
      Roman history.


      > > I do not believe the Pannonian Heruls were mercenaries of
      > > Theodoric, as they did not go to Italy after their defeat.
      >
      >
      > The North Danubian Heruls were allies of Theoderic. Their king was
      > made son-in-arms of Theoderic. Whether this resulted in any kind of
      > subsidy payments to bolster his son-in-arms we don't know.


      We know one letter to Roduulf and then the letters to Heruls, Varnies
      and Thuringians showing that Theodoric tried to form alliances
      against the Franks. In my opinion the following events did in no way
      indicate that he succeeded, and even if he did, there is no
      indication that he had to pay for it.

      .............

      I have noticed your comments about the coins. Unfortunately 5 solidi
      and the words "tend to" do not bring me much further. As you earlier
      wrote that ALL Scandinavian solidi are from Constantinopel, I have
      one stupid question: How sure are you about the registration of the
      mints at these Scandinavian solidi?

      Troels
    • faltin2001
      ... on ... used ... Tore, as I told you in private e-mail, the MIBE is a major catalogue of Byzantine coinage and there would not be anything in there that
      Message 81 of 81 , Jan 18, 2002
        --- In gothic-l@y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm@s...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >Tore,
        > >
        > >Fagerlie's book which appeared in the 1960s is unfortunately based
        on
        > >outdated historical and archaeological sources, which not only
        > >influenced, but even drove her interpretations. She linked sporadic
        > >finds to contacts for which there is no evidence and which are not
        > >likely. For example, seeking to link a Leontius coin of Antioch to
        > >the Ostrogoths is highly contrived and not believable. If you read
        > >modern literature on this field you will find that these
        > >interpretations are no longer accepted. The leading expert on
        > >Ostrogothic (and late Roman) coinage M. Metlich stated that
        > >Fagerlie's interpretations are untenable. Her book should not be
        used
        > >to bring order to this discussion, unfortunately.
        > >
        > >Dirk
        > >
        >
        >
        > Dirk,
        > I now have the book mentioned by you,
        >
        > Money of the Incipient
        > Byzantine Empire
        > (Anastasius I- Justinian I, 491-565)
        >
        > Wolfgang Hahn with the collaboration of M.A.Metlich
        >
        > I can't see that there is anything that conflicts with Fagerlie.


        Tore,

        as I told you in private e-mail, the MIBE is a major catalogue of
        Byzantine coinage and there would not be anything in there that would
        contradict Fagerlie, because it is not dealing with the same subject.




        >
        > Metlich deals with coins from Anastasius to Justinian I.
        >
        > Fagerlie deals with coins prior to this.
        >
        > For all the Anastasius solidis the striking seems to have been done
        > in Constantinopel except for some in Thessalonica.
        >
        > According to Metlich none were struck in Italy.




        Believe me, coins in the name of Anastasius were struck at Rome with
        the mint mark COMOB and others. These are the Ostrogothic solidi
        under Theoderic. I have several of those myself. Also, there are a
        few solidi which show the Greek letter 'Theta' as monogram for
        Theoderic. There is no way that Metlich said that no coin in the name
        of Anastasius were struck in Italy. Otherwise, we would have no
        Ostrogothic soldi! To see for yourself go the the following link:

        http://www.dcatalog.de/peus369/antike/antike.htm

        On the left-hand side scroll down to 'Voelkerwanderung' and then
        click on 'Ostrogothisches Koenigreich in Italien'. The first coin
        that comes up is a solidus in the name of Anastasius minted at Rome,
        as explained in the text below and as can be seen from the mint mark
        COMOB.



        > I can only find Fagerlies name in the Bibliography.

        I think she worked mainly in the 1950 and 60s.


        Dirk






        > Tore
        > --
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