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Re: More on the Gothic-Slavic link

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  • dirk@smra.co.uk
    ... the ... Hello Andreas, that seems plausible. I am surprised though that the name Heruli was still known after some 600 years afer they ceized to exist. Or
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 7, 2001
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      --- In gothic-l@y..., andreas.schwarcz@u... wrote:
      > Dear Dirk,
      > yes, I think the case of the Hevelli is similar. The oldest source
      > mentioning them is the Bavarian Geographer ca.845 AD, who calls
      > them Hehfeldi. Next are Widukind of Corvey, I, 35, "Sclavos, qui
      > dicuntur Hevelli" and Thietmar of Merseburg, IV, 29, "Stoderaniam
      > qui Heveldun dicuntur" and a charter of Otto I (MGH DO I 105) of
      > 948 AD "provincia Heveldun". Their name is derived from the river
      > Havel, their proper slavic name seems to have been Stodor'ane.
      > There was a sanctuary of the god Triglav on the Harlungenberg near
      > Brandenburg and that may have had some influence on the
      > historizing misnaming of them as Heruli in the eleventh century.
      > But the citations with Hevelli or Heruli are clearly younger than
      the
      > ones cited above.
      > Kind regards
      > Andreas


      Hello Andreas,

      that seems plausible. I am surprised though that the name Heruli was
      still known after some 600 years afer they ceized to exist. Or from
      another point of view, I am surpised that people like Helmold and/or
      Adam were so familiar with ancient authors like Procopius. But I
      agree, the placename Harlungenberge may have given them the idea of
      linking the Heveller/Heveldi (which was the German name for the
      Stodorane, i.e. Havel-dweller) with the Heruli.

      It makes one wonder to what extent ancient authors like Procopius,
      Jordanes, or even Ptolemy have slipped tribal names and events into
      their narratives only to show their familiarity with older sources.

      cheers,
      Dirk
    • andreas.schwarcz@univie.ac.at
      Dear Oskar, on the whole I agree with Dirk on the Heruli or (philologically better) Eruli. I do not know any single book or monography on the Eruli either, but
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 7, 2001
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        Dear Oskar,
        on the whole I agree with Dirk on the Heruli or (philologically better)
        Eruli. I do not know any single book or monography on the Eruli
        either, but the last and newest word on them is the article "Heruler"
        (philology by G.Neumann, language, history and archeology by
        M.Taylor) in Hoops. Reallexikon der germanischen
        Altertumswissenschaften 2nd ed., vol.14. Berlin, New York 1999,
        pp.468-474, where you will also find a long and exhaustive
        bibliography on them.
        Kind regards
        Andreas Schwarcz
        Ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
        Institut für österreichische Geschichtsforschung
        Universität Wien
        Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
        A-1010 Wien
        Österreich
        Tel.0043/1/42-77/272-16
        Fax 0043/142-77/92-72
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