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Gentile as coterminous with Kuni

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  • Anþanareiks
    Hails allaim! Lets see how applicable I can make this line of thought here: Originally, gentile literal meaning is of the same clan, ethnic group, or nation.
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 1, 2001
      Hails allaim!

      Lets see how applicable I can make this line of thought here:

      Originally, gentile literal meaning is of the same clan, ethnic
      group, or nation. Gentile is seemingly derived from Gens.

      What term does Wulfilas use?
      Mark 16.32
      þiudos sokjand
      gentiles seek

      John 7.35
      þaruh qeþun þai Iudaieis du sis misso: hwadre sa skuli gaggan,
      þei weis ni bigitaima ina?
      nibai in distahein þiudo skuli gaggan,
      jah laisjan þiudos?

      Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go,
      that we shall not find him?
      will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles,
      and teach the Gentiles?

      I might argue kuni would be a more appropriate appelation.
      Gothic kuni meaning ethnic group, generation, tribe.

      The point is> does gentile for Wulfilas mean ethnic group? I have
      read that Jesus did not intend his Gospel for foreigners but rather
      Hebrews. Later with Paul, it was spread to the "gentile" world. If
      that was the case, then the use of Gentile may mean foreigners, i.e.
      non-Hebrew rather then non-Judiac?

      At any rate>

      "Undoubtedly the kuni formed the most important political unit, but
      it was at the same time also a community of descent, unlike the
      Gutthiuda to which it was subordinated. The etymological relationship
      between kuni and gens was thus semantically preserved. A Goth
      belonged to the kuni as an inkunja." Wolfram, HoG, p. 96

      A note: Kuni is Germanic while "race" (i.e. ethnic group, generation,
      tribe) is derive from latin ratio> E French > French race

      Tribe is derived from Latin tribus> Old Breton treb

      From a purely germanic standpoint, the only word to discribe a ethnic
      group, tribe, generation, descent, is kuni.

      I thought it interesting though the etymology of gentile and Wulfilas
      translation of the word into þuidos rather then kuni, which I think
      he uses to translate generation, o this generation.

      St. Luke 3:7
      qaþ þan du þaim atgaggandeim manageim daupjan fram sis:
      kuni nadre,
      hwas gataiknida izwis þliuhan faura þamma anawairþin hatiza?

      Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him,
      O generation of vipers,
      who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?


      Any thoughts why Wulfilas used Þuidos rather then kuni?

      Anþanareiks
    • Anþanareiks
      ... i.e. non-Hebrew rather then non-Judiac? In Genesis, the descndants of Noah s son Japheth were called gentiles. Later,the origin of Gentile as foreigner I
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 1, 2001
        > Originally, gentile literal meaning is of the same clan, ethnic
        > group, or nation. Gentile is seemingly derived from Gens.
        > The point is> does gentile for Wulfilas mean ethnic group? I have
        > read that Jesus did not intend his Gospel for foreigners but rather
        > Hebrews. Later with Paul, it was spread to the "gentile" world. If
        > that was the case, then the use of Gentile may mean foreigners,
        i.e. non-Hebrew rather then non-Judiac?



        In Genesis, the descndants of Noah's son Japheth were called
        gentiles. Later,the origin of Gentile as foreigner I read was in the
        era of Abraham. During this time gentile came to mean those nations
        and peoples who had not descended from Abraham.
        So you see a shift from gentile as indigenous descent to foreigners.
        If this is correct, then kuni as descent, indigenous national group
        would be the appropriate term rather then þuidos as people.



        Anþanareiks
      • MCLSSAA2@fs2.mt.umist.ac.uk
        ... The language to be concerned with here is not Germanic or Latin but the original Hebrew (Old Testament, [goyim]) or Greek (New Testament). the nations is
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 4, 2001
          --- In gothic-l@y..., "Anþanareiks" <anthanaric@h...> wrote:
          > In Genesis, the descndants of Noah's son Japheth were called
          > gentiles. ...

          The language to be concerned with here is not Germanic or Latin but
          the original Hebrew (Old Testament, [goyim]) or Greek (New Testament).
          "the nations" is an obvious expression for a people to use to mean
          "all the people of nations except us".
        • Anþanareiks
          ... Testament). ... The quote was in the New Testiment it would not have been originally writen in Hebrew but Greek I think, Jesus spoke Aramanic not Hebrew.
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 4, 2001
            > the original Hebrew (Old Testament, [goyim]) or Greek (New
            Testament).
            > "the nations" is an obvious expression for a people to use to mean
            > "all the people of nations except us".



            The quote was in the New Testiment it would not have been originally
            writen in Hebrew but Greek I think, Jesus spoke Aramanic not Hebrew.
            The point is the translation from Greek to Gothic, Gentile to Thuidos
            or Kuni.



            Anthanarik
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ordlag_Godvegr





            ___________________________________________________________
            Originally, gentile literal meaning is of the same clan, ethnic
            group, or nation. Gentile is seemingly derived from Gens.

            What term does Wulfilas use?
            Mark 16.32
            þiudos sokjand
            gentiles seek

            I might argue kuni would be a more appropriate appelation.
            Gothic kuni meaning ethnic group, generation, tribe.

            The point is> does gentile for Wulfilas mean ethnic group? I have
            read that Jesus did not intend his Gospel for foreigners but rather
            Hebrews. Later with Paul, it was spread to the "gentile" world. If
            that was the case, then the use of Gentile may mean foreigners, i.e.
            non-Hebrew rather then non-Judiac?

            At any rate>

            "Undoubtedly the kuni formed the most important political unit, but
            it was at the same time also a community of descent, unlike the
            Gutthiuda to which it was subordinated. The etymological relationship
            between kuni and gens was thus semantically preserved. A Goth
            belonged to the kuni as an inkunja." Wolfram, HoG, p. 96

            A note: Kuni is Germanic while "race" (i.e. ethnic group, generation,
            tribe) is derive from latin ratio> E French > French race

            Tribe is derived from Latin tribus> Old Breton treb

            From a purely germanic standpoint, the only word to discribe a ethnic
            group, tribe, generation, descent, is kuni.

            I thought it interesting though the etymology of gentile and Wulfilas
            translation of the word into þuidos rather then kuni, which I think
            he uses to translate generation, o this generation.

            St. Luke 3:7
            qaþ þan du þaim atgaggandeim manageim daupjan fram sis:
            kuni nadre,
            hwas gataiknida izwis þliuhan faura þamma anawairþin hatiza?

            Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him,
            O generation of vipers,
            who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
          • Franz Weissmann
            ... Yes, today the scholars -except the Jews for Jesus , that are not probably scholars- accept doubtless the New Testament was originally written in Greek
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 5, 2001
              --- An�anareiks <anthanaric@...> wrote:
              > > the original Hebrew (Old Testament, [goyim]) or
              > Greek (New
              > Testament).
              > > "the nations" is an obvious expression for a
              > people to use to mean
              > > "all the people of nations except us".
              >
              >
              >
              > The quote was in the New Testiment it would not
              > have been originally
              > writen in Hebrew but Greek I think, Jesus spoke
              > Aramanic not Hebrew.
              > The point is the translation from Greek to Gothic,
              > Gentile to Thuidos
              > or Kuni.
              >
              >
              >
              > Anthanarik
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ordlag_Godvegr
              >
              >
              > HI,

              Yes, today the scholars -except the "Jews for Jesus",
              that are not probably scholars- accept doubtless the
              New Testament was originally written in Greek Koin�,
              i.e. the common, not Classic, Greek spoken in the
              Mediterranean. But, of course, the background is
              semitic.
              "Goi" means normally, without writehere the nuances
              and semantics of the word; "not belonging to the
              People of Israel", also in Modern Hebrew and without
              any pejorative sense.

              The Gothic Bible Translations is indeed a very
              interesting subject and I am enjoying, as always, the
              List

              Regards,

              Francis

              weismann@...
              >
              >
              ___________________________________________________________
              > Originally, gentile literal meaning is of the same
              > clan, ethnic
              > group, or nation. Gentile is seemingly derived from
              > Gens.
              >
              > What term does Wulfilas use?
              > Mark 16.32
              > �iudos sokjand
              > gentiles seek
              >
              > I might argue kuni would be a more appropriate
              > appelation.
              > Gothic kuni meaning ethnic group, generation, tribe.
              >
              >
              > The point is> does gentile for Wulfilas mean ethnic
              > group? I have
              > read that Jesus did not intend his Gospel for
              > foreigners but rather
              > Hebrews. Later with Paul, it was spread to the
              > "gentile" world. If
              > that was the case, then the use of Gentile may mean
              > foreigners, i.e.
              > non-Hebrew rather then non-Judiac?
              >
              > At any rate>
              >
              > "Undoubtedly the kuni formed the most important
              > political unit, but
              > it was at the same time also a community of descent,
              > unlike the
              > Gutthiuda to which it was subordinated. The
              > etymological relationship
              > between kuni and gens was thus semantically
              > preserved. A Goth
              > belonged to the kuni as an inkunja." Wolfram, HoG,
              > p. 96
              >
              > A note: Kuni is Germanic while "race" (i.e. ethnic
              > group, generation,
              > tribe) is derive from latin ratio> E French > French
              > race
              >
              > Tribe is derived from Latin tribus> Old Breton treb
              >
              > From a purely germanic standpoint, the only word to
              > discribe a ethnic
              > group, tribe, generation, descent, is kuni.
              >
              > I thought it interesting though the etymology of
              > gentile and Wulfilas
              > translation of the word into �uidos rather then
              > kuni, which I think
              > he uses to translate generation, o this generation.
              >
              > St. Luke 3:7
              > qa� �an du �aim atgaggandeim manageim daupjan fram
              > sis:
              > kuni nadre,
              > hwas gataiknida izwis �liuhan faura �amma anawair�in
              > hatiza?
              >
              > Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be
              > baptized of him,
              > O generation of vipers,
              > who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
              >
              >
              >
              >


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