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Gepids

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  • Bertil Häggman
    Steve, Will later provide you with a few references to classical sources of the Gepids. One is of course Jordanes _Getica_. One explanation of the people name
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 30, 2001
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      Steve,

      Will later provide you with a few references to
      classical sources of the Gepids. One is of course Jordanes _Getica_.

      One explanation of the people name is that it stems from "geptanta" = slow, because they were on the last ship of King Berig to arrive at Gothiscandza.

      Gepidically

      Bertil
    • Bertil Häggman
      Dear listmembers, Further to my comments on the Gepids Jordanes wrote in Getica XVII:94,95: You surely remember that in the begining I said the Goths went
      Message 2 of 18 , May 1, 2001
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        Dear listmembers,

        Further to my comments on the Gepids Jordanes
        wrote in Getica XVII:94,95:

        "You surely remember that in the begining I said
        the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island
        of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only
        three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean,
        namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three
        ships proved to be slower than the others, as is
        usually the case, and thus is said to have given the
        tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means
        slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and
        by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them
        by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace
        their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because,
        as I have said, gepanta means something slow and
        stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous
        name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong,
        for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for
        quick movement of their bodies."

        So it was after all correct that at least Jordanes claimed
        they were slow of mind. But the introduction of a Gepidic
        word, gepanta, meaning slow seems dubious. Rather
        the late Latin gepidus=slow, would be one explanation.

        My personal belief, however, is that gepid is related to the
        god Gaut or Gapt, the Gothic progenitor. Gaut or Gapt is of
        course also another name for Odin.

        Gepidically

        Bertil
      • Alburysteve@aol.com
        Hi Bertil: ... Gepidus is late Latin? My (classical) latin dictionary fails to even include a gep- root. Is it a loan word? Sorry for all the questions. ...
        Message 3 of 18 , May 3, 2001
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          Hi Bertil:

          Many thanks for the extensive quote from Jordanes:

          > Further to my comments on the Gepids Jordanes
          > wrote in Getica XVII:94,95:
          >
          > "You surely remember that in the begining I said
          > the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island
          > of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only
          > three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean,
          > namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three
          > ships proved to be slower than the others, as is
          > usually the case, and thus is said to have given the
          > tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means
          > slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and
          > by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them
          > by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace
          > their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because,
          > as I have said, gepanta means something slow and
          > stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous
          > name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong,
          > for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for
          > quick movement of their bodies."
          >
          > So it was after all correct that at least Jordanes claimed
          > they were slow of mind. But the introduction of a Gepidic
          > word, gepanta, meaning slow seems dubious. Rather
          > the late Latin gepidus=slow, would be one explanation.

          Gepidus is late Latin? My (classical) latin dictionary fails to even include
          a gep- root. Is it a loan word? Sorry for all the questions.

          > My personal belief, however, is that gepid is related to the
          > god Gaut or Gapt, the Gothic progenitor. Gaut or Gapt is of
          > course also another name for Odin.

          I suspected that the tribal name was a corruption of something and this makes
          much sense. My initial reaction to Jordanes' version of Gothic origins was
          to see it as a reflex of the wider creation legend where the world is made
          from the corpse of the giant Ymir. Gapt might be head (haubith), Hulmul the
          "helm" (hilms), Augis the eyes (augo), and Amal the shoulders (ams). Being
          several christian generations removed from the pagan source, it is hard to
          say how jumbled the terms might have become by the time Jordanes (being no
          Snorri) records them. Comparisons have been made between the
          "deconstruction" of Ymir in Norse mythology to similar Vedic reflexes
          (Puhvel's Comparative Mythology:284ff) and, of course, the propensity to
          carry tribal geneologies back to the "first man" is well documented (cf
          Turville-Petre's Myth and Religion of the North, Ch 9).

          Thanks again for all the help.

          Rgds,

          Steve O'Brien
          Albury, Ontario
        • dirk@smra.co.uk
          ... even include ... this makes ... origins was ... is made ... Hulmul the ... Being ... hard to ... (being no ... reflexes ... propensity to ... (cf ... Hello
          Message 4 of 18 , May 3, 2001
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            --- In gothic-l@y..., Alburysteve@a... wrote:
            > Hi Bertil:
            >
            > Many thanks for the extensive quote from Jordanes:
            >
            > > Further to my comments on the Gepids Jordanes
            > > wrote in Getica XVII:94,95:
            > >
            > > "You surely remember that in the begining I said
            > > the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island
            > > of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only
            > > three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean,
            > > namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three
            > > ships proved to be slower than the others, as is
            > > usually the case, and thus is said to have given the
            > > tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means
            > > slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and
            > > by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them
            > > by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace
            > > their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because,
            > > as I have said, gepanta means something slow and
            > > stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous
            > > name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong,
            > > for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for
            > > quick movement of their bodies."
            > >
            > > So it was after all correct that at least Jordanes claimed
            > > they were slow of mind. But the introduction of a Gepidic
            > > word, gepanta, meaning slow seems dubious. Rather
            > > the late Latin gepidus=slow, would be one explanation.
            >
            > Gepidus is late Latin? My (classical) latin dictionary fails to
            even include
            > a gep- root. Is it a loan word? Sorry for all the questions.
            >
            > > My personal belief, however, is that gepid is related to the
            > > god Gaut or Gapt, the Gothic progenitor. Gaut or Gapt is of
            > > course also another name for Odin.
            >
            > I suspected that the tribal name was a corruption of something and
            this makes
            > much sense. My initial reaction to Jordanes' version of Gothic
            origins was
            > to see it as a reflex of the wider creation legend where the world
            is made
            > from the corpse of the giant Ymir. Gapt might be head (haubith),
            Hulmul the
            > "helm" (hilms), Augis the eyes (augo), and Amal the shoulders (ams).
            Being
            > several christian generations removed from the pagan source, it is
            hard to
            > say how jumbled the terms might have become by the time Jordanes
            (being no
            > Snorri) records them. Comparisons have been made between the
            > "deconstruction" of Ymir in Norse mythology to similar Vedic
            reflexes
            > (Puhvel's Comparative Mythology:284ff) and, of course, the
            propensity to
            > carry tribal geneologies back to the "first man" is well documented
            (cf
            > Turville-Petre's Myth and Religion of the North, Ch 9).
            >
            > Thanks again for all the help.
            >
            > Rgds,
            >
            > Steve O'Brien


            Hello Steve,

            ancient authors were apparently also very uncertain about the meaning
            of that name. Isidore of Seville (I think) said that the name Gepids
            comes from Ge-pedes meaning something like foot-soldier. Another
            classical interpretation is Ge-paides, which is supposed to mean
            'Decendents of the Getes' (a non-Germanic people in Dacia).

            Heinrich Sevin (die Gebiden, 1955) argued that the name should really
            be *Gebids* rather than *Gepids*. Sevin calles the settlement areas of
            the Gepids in the Weichsel/Masuren area as Gebidoios. After the
            Gepidic kingdom in Pannonia Sirmiensis had been destroyed by the
            Langobards and Avars, Sevin shows that some of them had been
            forcefully resettled to Italy, others stayed behind in the Avaria,
            where a reported incident with the Khan Bajan and the Byzantine
            emperor shows that they were regarded as subject if not slaves of the
            Avars. Seven argues that some of them may have returned to the old
            Gebidoios where they are 'attested' in the Masur-Germanic culture of
            the 6th/7th century.

            Under Theoderic, Gepids had also been resettled to southern Gaul and
            parts of the Gepids also ended up in the Rhine/Elsass area according
            to Sevin. Interestingly, the Gepids did produce coins for a while in
            the Sirmium area in the 6th century. In fact, I am in contact with a
            numismatist of the Austrian Numismatic Institute in Vienna who argues
            that the issues were in fact rather substantial. Some coins seem to
            show the monogramme and initial of Cunimundus.

            I think most authors nowdays believe that the Gepids formed in the
            Vistula region out of the Goths who did not move to the Black Sea
            area in the 2nd/3rd centuries as they are not mentioned by Tacitus.
            With regards to their name, I suppose we will never now for sure what
            it means.

            cheers
            Dirk



            > Albury, Ontario
          • dirk@smra.co.uk
            Hello again Steve, I forgot one interesting, but not very well known bit of information abou the Gepids. The Chronicles of Salzburg (871AD) about the missions
            Message 5 of 18 , May 3, 2001
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              Hello again Steve,

              I forgot one interesting, but not very well known bit of information
              abou the Gepids. The Chronicles of Salzburg (871AD) about the missions
              of the Bavarians and Carinthians (Conversio Bagaoriorum et
              Carantanorum...) stated that in the slavic Pannonia were the Bavarian
              mission was most active once the Huns drove out the Romans, Goths and
              Gepids (... transfretantes Danubium expulerunt Romanos et Gothos
              atque Gepidos...).

              Most importantly, the chronicle continues to state that many of the
              Gepids were still living there. (...De Gepidis autem quidam adhuc ibi
              resident.) Thus, in 871AD Gepids seem to have still been in
              exsistence in the Pannonian area, where according to the chronicle the
              Bavarians came in frequent contact with them. Some converted Gepids
              apparently came to Bavaria to become priests or monks.

              cheers
              Dirk






              --- In gothic-l@y..., dirk@s... wrote:
              > --- In gothic-l@y..., Alburysteve@a... wrote:
              > > Hi Bertil:
              > >
              > > Many thanks for the extensive quote from Jordanes:
              > >
              > > > Further to my comments on the Gepids Jordanes
              > > > wrote in Getica XVII:94,95:
              > > >
              > > > "You surely remember that in the begining I said
              > > > the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island
              > > > of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only
              > > > three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean,
              > > > namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three
              > > > ships proved to be slower than the others, as is
              > > > usually the case, and thus is said to have given the
              > > > tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means
              > > > slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and
              > > > by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them
              > > > by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace
              > > > their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because,
              > > > as I have said, gepanta means something slow and
              > > > stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous
              > > > name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong,
              > > > for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for
              > > > quick movement of their bodies."
              > > >
              > > > So it was after all correct that at least Jordanes claimed
              > > > they were slow of mind. But the introduction of a Gepidic
              > > > word, gepanta, meaning slow seems dubious. Rather
              > > > the late Latin gepidus=slow, would be one explanation.
              > >
              > > Gepidus is late Latin? My (classical) latin dictionary fails to
              > even include
              > > a gep- root. Is it a loan word? Sorry for all the questions.
              > >
              > > > My personal belief, however, is that gepid is related to the
              > > > god Gaut or Gapt, the Gothic progenitor. Gaut or Gapt is of
              > > > course also another name for Odin.
              > >
              > > I suspected that the tribal name was a corruption of something and
              > this makes
              > > much sense. My initial reaction to Jordanes' version of Gothic
              > origins was
              > > to see it as a reflex of the wider creation legend where the world
              > is made
              > > from the corpse of the giant Ymir. Gapt might be head (haubith),
              > Hulmul the
              > > "helm" (hilms), Augis the eyes (augo), and Amal the shoulders
              (ams).
              > Being
              > > several christian generations removed from the pagan source, it is
              > hard to
              > > say how jumbled the terms might have become by the time Jordanes
              > (being no
              > > Snorri) records them. Comparisons have been made between the
              > > "deconstruction" of Ymir in Norse mythology to similar Vedic
              > reflexes
              > > (Puhvel's Comparative Mythology:284ff) and, of course, the
              > propensity to
              > > carry tribal geneologies back to the "first man" is well
              documented
              > (cf
              > > Turville-Petre's Myth and Religion of the North, Ch 9).
              > >
              > > Thanks again for all the help.
              > >
              > > Rgds,
              > >
              > > Steve O'Brien
              >
              >
              > Hello Steve,
              >
              > ancient authors were apparently also very uncertain about the
              meaning
              > of that name. Isidore of Seville (I think) said that the name Gepids
              > comes from Ge-pedes meaning something like foot-soldier. Another
              > classical interpretation is Ge-paides, which is supposed to mean
              > 'Decendents of the Getes' (a non-Germanic people in Dacia).
              >
              > Heinrich Sevin (die Gebiden, 1955) argued that the name should
              really
              > be *Gebids* rather than *Gepids*. Sevin calles the settlement areas
              of
              > the Gepids in the Weichsel/Masuren area as Gebidoios. After the
              > Gepidic kingdom in Pannonia Sirmiensis had been destroyed by the
              > Langobards and Avars, Sevin shows that some of them had been
              > forcefully resettled to Italy, others stayed behind in the Avaria,
              > where a reported incident with the Khan Bajan and the Byzantine
              > emperor shows that they were regarded as subject if not slaves of
              the
              > Avars. Seven argues that some of them may have returned to the old
              > Gebidoios where they are 'attested' in the Masur-Germanic culture of
              > the 6th/7th century.
              >
              > Under Theoderic, Gepids had also been resettled to southern Gaul and
              > parts of the Gepids also ended up in the Rhine/Elsass area according
              > to Sevin. Interestingly, the Gepids did produce coins for a while in
              > the Sirmium area in the 6th century. In fact, I am in contact with a
              > numismatist of the Austrian Numismatic Institute in Vienna who
              argues
              > that the issues were in fact rather substantial. Some coins seem to
              > show the monogramme and initial of Cunimundus.
              >
              > I think most authors nowdays believe that the Gepids formed in the
              > Vistula region out of the Goths who did not move to the Black Sea
              > area in the 2nd/3rd centuries as they are not mentioned by Tacitus.
              > With regards to their name, I suppose we will never now for sure
              what
              > it means.
              >
              > cheers
              > Dirk
              >
              >
              >
              > > Albury, Ontario
            • Bertil Häggman
              Steve, Neither could I find it in my Latin-Swedish dictionary so it might after all not exist. I did note it in some encyclopedia on Germanic history, but that
              Message 6 of 18 , May 3, 2001
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                Steve,

                Neither could I find it in my Latin-Swedish
                dictionary so it might after all not exist.
                I did note it in some encyclopedia on
                Germanic history, but that statement
                might be incorrect. I have not been able
                to find gepidus in any other connection but
                if I do, I'll report.

                On Gapt we disagree as I see the origin
                of Gaut from the meaning gjuta, goet, gjutit (pour in
                English) of course related to the goet/
                got/gut/geat name.

                The god Gaut is likely a fertility god, a god
                of creation. The Swedish byword for Gaut is
                "avlaren" (if such the word exists in English
                it would be "the begetter" from beget, or maybe
                the multiplier).

                For the "avlaren" meaning see Professor Ake
                Hultcrantz, "Vem är vem i nordisk mytologi", Stockholm
                1991.

                The only problem is of course
                the "p" instead of "t", so I don't know if it is
                linguistically possible.

                Gaut was the father of the Goetar (which are most
                likely the gautoi of for instance Procopius, or the
                gouthai of Ptolemaeus).

                Maybe also one has to reflect on the background of the
                Goetar and Nordic mythology. The Goetar might well have
                emerged already during the Bronze Age while the Nordic
                myths are mainly from Snorri Sturlason, that is there are
                2000 to 3000 years between the emerging Goetar and
                Snorri. The question is if the gepids also if the Gepids
                existed as a seperate people already in Scandza. They
                certainly maintained a separate identity throughout,
                fighting as subjugate, I think, on the side of Attila.
                In 567 AD they were completely crushed by the Langobards
                and disappear from history.

                I have also been wondering if Icelandic "gifdar" are the Gepids?

                Gepidically

                Bertil




                > Gepidus is late Latin? My (classical) latin dictionary fails to even include
                > a gep- root. Is it a loan word? Sorry for all the questions.

                > I suspected that the tribal name was a corruption of something and this makes
                > much sense. My initial reaction to Jordanes' version of Gothic origins was
                > to see it as a reflex of the wider creation legend where the world is made
                > from the corpse of the giant Ymir. Gapt might be head (haubith), Hulmul the
                > "helm" (hilms), Augis the eyes (augo), and Amal the shoulders (ams). Being
                > several christian generations removed from the pagan source, it is hard to
                > say how jumbled the terms might have become by the time Jordanes (being no
                > Snorri) records them. Comparisons have been made between the
                > "deconstruction" of Ymir in Norse mythology to similar Vedic reflexes
                > (Puhvel's Comparative Mythology:284ff) and, of course, the propensity to
                > carry tribal geneologies back to the "first man" is well documented (cf
                > Turville-Petre's Myth and Religion of the North, Ch 9).
              • dirk@smra.co.uk
                Hi Steve, Sorry for this protracted posting, but I am reading a bit around and came across a few more references to the Gepids, which seem to be of some
                Message 7 of 18 , May 4, 2001
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                  Hi Steve, Sorry for this protracted posting, but I am reading a bit
                  around and came across a few more references to the Gepids, which seem
                  to be of some interest and which are not normally mentioned in the
                  mainstream history books.

                  According to a source (Hieronyums: Epistolae) Gepids were among the
                  people who crossed the Rhine near Mainz in 406AD. But while the
                  Vandals, Alans and Suevi continued to move further westwards the
                  Burgundians settled near Worms and the Gepids at the upper Rhine
                  Elsass/Breisgau area.

                  Another source (Prosper Havniensis: Chronica) mentioned that in 455AD
                  Gepids from the Rhine area participated in wars against Burgundians
                  (probably together with Alamanni).

                  And in around 600AD a source (Aethicus, Scriptor anonymus:
                  Cosmographia) states that an area in the Elsass/Breisgau region is
                  called the Gepetho, which may be a reflection of the Gepidic name.

                  After this the traces of the Rhine-Gepids are lost and - just as the
                  Rhone-Gepids (who had been settled their by Theoderic)- they were
                  absorbed into the local population. Also the Gepids in the Po-valley
                  who had been settled their by the Langobards dissappear from the
                  records in the 7th century. That leaves only the Gepids who had stayed
                  in Pannonia and who were in contact with Bavarian missionaries as late
                  as 871AD as reported in the Salzburg chronicles (see earlier posting).

                  All these souces are given bei Heinrich Sevin (Die Gebiden, 1955).

                  cheers
                  Dirk




                  --- In gothic-l@y..., dirk@s... wrote:
                  > Hello again Steve,
                  >
                  > I forgot one interesting, but not very well known bit of information
                  > abou the Gepids. The Chronicles of Salzburg (871AD) about the
                  missions
                  > of the Bavarians and Carinthians (Conversio Bagaoriorum et
                  > Carantanorum...) stated that in the slavic Pannonia were the
                  Bavarian
                  > mission was most active once the Huns drove out the Romans, Goths
                  and
                  > Gepids (... transfretantes Danubium expulerunt Romanos et Gothos
                  > atque Gepidos...).
                  >
                  > Most importantly, the chronicle continues to state that many of the
                  > Gepids were still living there. (...De Gepidis autem quidam adhuc
                  ibi
                  > resident.) Thus, in 871AD Gepids seem to have still been in
                  > exsistence in the Pannonian area, where according to the chronicle
                  the
                  > Bavarians came in frequent contact with them. Some converted Gepids
                  > apparently came to Bavaria to become priests or monks.
                  >
                  > cheers
                  > Dirk
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In gothic-l@y..., dirk@s... wrote:
                  > > --- In gothic-l@y..., Alburysteve@a... wrote:
                  > > > Hi Bertil:
                  > > >
                  > > > Many thanks for the extensive quote from Jordanes:
                  > > >
                  > > > > Further to my comments on the Gepids Jordanes
                  > > > > wrote in Getica XVII:94,95:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > "You surely remember that in the begining I said
                  > > > > the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island
                  > > > > of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only
                  > > > > three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean,
                  > > > > namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three
                  > > > > ships proved to be slower than the others, as is
                  > > > > usually the case, and thus is said to have given the
                  > > > > tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means
                  > > > > slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and
                  > > > > by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them
                  > > > > by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace
                  > > > > their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because,
                  > > > > as I have said, gepanta means something slow and
                  > > > > stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous
                  > > > > name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong,
                  > > > > for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for
                  > > > > quick movement of their bodies."
                  > > > >
                  > > > > So it was after all correct that at least Jordanes claimed
                  > > > > they were slow of mind. But the introduction of a Gepidic
                  > > > > word, gepanta, meaning slow seems dubious. Rather
                  > > > > the late Latin gepidus=slow, would be one explanation.
                  > > >
                  > > > Gepidus is late Latin? My (classical) latin dictionary fails to
                  > > even include
                  > > > a gep- root. Is it a loan word? Sorry for all the questions.
                  > > >
                  > > > > My personal belief, however, is that gepid is related to the
                  > > > > god Gaut or Gapt, the Gothic progenitor. Gaut or Gapt is of
                  > > > > course also another name for Odin.
                  > > >
                  > > > I suspected that the tribal name was a corruption of something
                  and
                  > > this makes
                  > > > much sense. My initial reaction to Jordanes' version of Gothic
                  > > origins was
                  > > > to see it as a reflex of the wider creation legend where the
                  world
                  > > is made
                  > > > from the corpse of the giant Ymir. Gapt might be head
                  (haubith),
                  > > Hulmul the
                  > > > "helm" (hilms), Augis the eyes (augo), and Amal the shoulders
                  > (ams).
                  > > Being
                  > > > several christian generations removed from the pagan source, it
                  is
                  > > hard to
                  > > > say how jumbled the terms might have become by the time Jordanes
                  > > (being no
                  > > > Snorri) records them. Comparisons have been made between the
                  > > > "deconstruction" of Ymir in Norse mythology to similar Vedic
                  > > reflexes
                  > > > (Puhvel's Comparative Mythology:284ff) and, of course, the
                  > > propensity to
                  > > > carry tribal geneologies back to the "first man" is well
                  > documented
                  > > (cf
                  > > > Turville-Petre's Myth and Religion of the North, Ch 9).
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks again for all the help.
                  > > >
                  > > > Rgds,
                  > > >
                  > > > Steve O'Brien
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hello Steve,
                  > >
                  > > ancient authors were apparently also very uncertain about the
                  > meaning
                  > > of that name. Isidore of Seville (I think) said that the name
                  Gepids
                  > > comes from Ge-pedes meaning something like foot-soldier. Another
                  > > classical interpretation is Ge-paides, which is supposed to mean
                  > > 'Decendents of the Getes' (a non-Germanic people in Dacia).
                  > >
                  > > Heinrich Sevin (die Gebiden, 1955) argued that the name should
                  > really
                  > > be *Gebids* rather than *Gepids*. Sevin calles the settlement
                  areas
                  > of
                  > > the Gepids in the Weichsel/Masuren area as Gebidoios. After the
                  > > Gepidic kingdom in Pannonia Sirmiensis had been destroyed by the
                  > > Langobards and Avars, Sevin shows that some of them had been
                  > > forcefully resettled to Italy, others stayed behind in the Avaria,
                  > > where a reported incident with the Khan Bajan and the Byzantine
                  > > emperor shows that they were regarded as subject if not slaves of
                  > the
                  > > Avars. Seven argues that some of them may have returned to the old
                  > > Gebidoios where they are 'attested' in the Masur-Germanic culture
                  of
                  > > the 6th/7th century.
                  > >
                  > > Under Theoderic, Gepids had also been resettled to southern Gaul
                  and
                  > > parts of the Gepids also ended up in the Rhine/Elsass area
                  according
                  > > to Sevin. Interestingly, the Gepids did produce coins for a while
                  in
                  > > the Sirmium area in the 6th century. In fact, I am in contact with
                  a
                  > > numismatist of the Austrian Numismatic Institute in Vienna who
                  > argues
                  > > that the issues were in fact rather substantial. Some coins seem
                  to
                  > > show the monogramme and initial of Cunimundus.
                  > >
                  > > I think most authors nowdays believe that the Gepids formed in the
                  > > Vistula region out of the Goths who did not move to the Black Sea
                  > > area in the 2nd/3rd centuries as they are not mentioned by
                  Tacitus.
                  > > With regards to their name, I suppose we will never now for sure
                  > what
                  > > it means.
                  > >
                  > > cheers
                  > > Dirk
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Albury, Ontario
                • Alburysteve@aol.com
                  ... Indeed, Jordanes makes this same mistake, confusing the Getes, a group of Scythicized Thracians with whom Alexander tangled in his day, with the Goths. ...
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 5, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Dirk:

                    > ancient authors were apparently also very uncertain about the meaning
                    > of that name. Isidore of Seville (I think) said that the name Gepids
                    > comes from Ge-pedes meaning something like foot-soldier. Another
                    > classical interpretation is Ge-paides, which is supposed to mean
                    > 'Decendents of the Getes' (a non-Germanic people in Dacia).

                    Indeed, Jordanes makes this same mistake, confusing the Getes, a group of
                    Scythicized Thracians with whom Alexander tangled in his day, with the Goths.

                    > Heinrich Sevin (die Gebiden, 1955) argued that the name should really
                    > be *Gebids* rather than *Gepids*.

                    Phonetically, this makes sense to me but (alas) I'm in no position to judge
                    it.

                    >Sevin calles the settlement areas of ...

                    Many thanks for this background info.

                    > I think most authors nowdays believe that the Gepids formed in the
                    > Vistula region out of the Goths who did not move to the Black Sea
                    > area in the 2nd/3rd centuries as they are not mentioned by Tacitus.
                    > With regards to their name, I suppose we will never now for sure what
                    > it means.

                    A suitable ending to my quest. Many thanks to all for their help.

                    Rgds,

                    Steve O'Brien
                    Albury, Ontario
                  • keth@online.no
                    I don t know if it was already mentioned, but Iordanes explained the origin of the name Gepidae , in that one of the 3 ships that the original Goths used
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 6, 2001
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                      I don't know if it was already mentioned, but Iordanes explained
                      the origin of the name "Gepidae", in that one of the 3 ships
                      that the original Goths used under their king Berig to emigrate
                      from the island Scanza, was lagging behind the two other ships,
                      and that the name "Gepidae" derives from this; for here Iordanes
                      adds the explanation "nam lingua eorum pigra gepanta dicitur".
                      (pigra = lazy, slow, dull)

                      It is a pity that the number of Gothic words that are found in the
                      Gothic Bible are so few, and that I am unable to find this Gothic
                      word that Iordanes mentions here : gepanta. In fact, I looked
                      both under g as well as under p. The idea of looking under p,
                      derives by analogy from, for example, German, where a word for "fast"
                      (geschwind) is closely related to MHG "swind", because -ge is
                      simply a prefix used to build words, which I assume has been operative
                      in Gothic as well as in Old German. (I don't know what the technical
                      term for such a prefix is. Is there any one who can give a more
                      professional explanation of the phenomenon?)

                      I see, however, that Gothic has very few words that begin on p.
                      But there are many words that begin on f. I also remember from
                      Old Norse that the language often vacillates between p and f for
                      a given sound (e.g. eptir/eftir). Hence it seems to me that one
                      may equally well look for a Gothic word that begins on an f, and
                      has a meaning that is related to slowness. But I was unable to
                      find any. Then it strikes me that sometimes there is also a close
                      relationship between p and b. Hence I should also look for a Gothic
                      word that begins with a b, and means "slow" or something similar.
                      I then recall the Norwegian word for "to wait" = å bie, which
                      I do find in the Gothic dictionary as the verb *beidan. Associated
                      with it are also words like *ga-beidan = to endure, which is actually
                      close enough to the name Gepid that we seek to explain. Could this
                      then be the solution ? (I wonder) ..

                      Another possible solution, that is very similar, lies in the verb *baidjan,
                      that means "to excercise a constraint" (moral), with which there are
                      also associated forms like *gabaidjan.

                      Regards,
                      Keth


                      Dirk wrote :
                      >According to a source (Hieronyums: Epistolae) Gepids were among the
                      >people who crossed the Rhine near Mainz in 406AD. But while the
                      >Vandals, Alans and Suevi continued to move further westwards the
                      >Burgundians settled near Worms and the Gepids at the upper Rhine
                      >Elsass/Breisgau area.
                      >
                      >Another source (Prosper Havniensis: Chronica) mentioned that in 455AD
                      >Gepids from the Rhine area participated in wars against Burgundians
                      >(probably together with Alamanni).
                      >
                      >And in around 600AD a source (Aethicus, Scriptor anonymus:
                      >Cosmographia) states that an area in the Elsass/Breisgau region is
                      >called the Gepetho, which may be a reflection of the Gepidic name.
                      >
                      >After this the traces of the Rhine-Gepids are lost and - just as the
                      >Rhone-Gepids (who had been settled their by Theoderic)- they were
                      >absorbed into the local population. Also the Gepids in the Po-valley
                      >who had been settled their by the Langobards dissappear from the
                      >records in the 7th century. That leaves only the Gepids who had stayed
                      >in Pannonia and who were in contact with Bavarian missionaries as late
                      >as 871AD as reported in the Salzburg chronicles (see earlier posting).
                      >
                      >All these souces are given bei Heinrich Sevin (Die Gebiden, 1955).
                      >
                      >cheers
                      >Dirk
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >--- In gothic-l@y..., dirk@s... wrote:
                      >> Hello again Steve,
                      >>
                      >> I forgot one interesting, but not very well known bit of information
                      >> abou the Gepids. The Chronicles of Salzburg (871AD) about the
                      >missions
                      >> of the Bavarians and Carinthians (Conversio Bagaoriorum et
                      >> Carantanorum...) stated that in the slavic Pannonia were the
                      >Bavarian
                      >> mission was most active once the Huns drove out the Romans, Goths
                      >and
                      >> Gepids (... transfretantes Danubium expulerunt Romanos et Gothos
                      >> atque Gepidos...).
                      >>
                      >> Most importantly, the chronicle continues to state that many of the
                      >> Gepids were still living there. (...De Gepidis autem quidam adhuc
                      >ibi
                      >> resident.) Thus, in 871AD Gepids seem to have still been in
                      >> exsistence in the Pannonian area, where according to the chronicle
                      >the
                      >> Bavarians came in frequent contact with them. Some converted Gepids
                      >> apparently came to Bavaria to become priests or monks.
                      >>
                      >> cheers
                      >> Dirk
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --- In gothic-l@y..., dirk@s... wrote:
                      >> > --- In gothic-l@y..., Alburysteve@a... wrote:
                      >> > > Hi Bertil:
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Many thanks for the extensive quote from Jordanes:
                      >> > >
                      >> > > > Further to my comments on the Gepids Jordanes
                      >> > > > wrote in Getica XVII:94,95:
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > "You surely remember that in the begining I said
                      >> > > > the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island
                      >> > > > of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only
                      >> > > > three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean,
                      >> > > > namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three
                      >> > > > ships proved to be slower than the others, as is
                      >> > > > usually the case, and thus is said to have given the
                      >> > > > tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means
                      >> > > > slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and
                      >> > > > by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them
                      >> > > > by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace
                      >> > > > their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because,
                      >> > > > as I have said, gepanta means something slow and
                      >> > > > stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous
                      >> > > > name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong,
                      >> > > > for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for
                      >> > > > quick movement of their bodies."
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > So it was after all correct that at least Jordanes claimed
                      >> > > > they were slow of mind. But the introduction of a Gepidic
                      >> > > > word, gepanta, meaning slow seems dubious. Rather
                      >> > > > the late Latin gepidus=slow, would be one explanation.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Gepidus is late Latin? My (classical) latin dictionary fails to
                      >> > even include
                      >> > > a gep- root. Is it a loan word? Sorry for all the questions.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > > My personal belief, however, is that gepid is related to the
                      >> > > > god Gaut or Gapt, the Gothic progenitor. Gaut or Gapt is of
                      >> > > > course also another name for Odin.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > I suspected that the tribal name was a corruption of something
                      >and
                      >> > this makes
                      >> > > much sense. My initial reaction to Jordanes' version of Gothic
                      >> > origins was
                      >> > > to see it as a reflex of the wider creation legend where the
                      >world
                      >> > is made
                      >> > > from the corpse of the giant Ymir. Gapt might be head
                      >(haubith),
                      >> > Hulmul the
                      >> > > "helm" (hilms), Augis the eyes (augo), and Amal the shoulders
                      >> (ams).
                      >> > Being
                      >> > > several christian generations removed from the pagan source, it
                      >is
                      >> > hard to
                      >> > > say how jumbled the terms might have become by the time Jordanes
                      >> > (being no
                      >> > > Snorri) records them. Comparisons have been made between the
                      >> > > "deconstruction" of Ymir in Norse mythology to similar Vedic
                      >> > reflexes
                      >> > > (Puhvel's Comparative Mythology:284ff) and, of course, the
                      >> > propensity to
                      >> > > carry tribal geneologies back to the "first man" is well
                      >> documented
                      >> > (cf
                      >> > > Turville-Petre's Myth and Religion of the North, Ch 9).
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Thanks again for all the help.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Rgds,
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Steve O'Brien
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Hello Steve,
                      >> >
                      >> > ancient authors were apparently also very uncertain about the
                      >> meaning
                      >> > of that name. Isidore of Seville (I think) said that the name
                      >Gepids
                      >> > comes from Ge-pedes meaning something like foot-soldier. Another
                      >> > classical interpretation is Ge-paides, which is supposed to mean
                      >> > 'Decendents of the Getes' (a non-Germanic people in Dacia).
                      >> >
                      >> > Heinrich Sevin (die Gebiden, 1955) argued that the name should
                      >> really
                      >> > be *Gebids* rather than *Gepids*. Sevin calles the settlement
                      >areas
                      >> of
                      >> > the Gepids in the Weichsel/Masuren area as Gebidoios. After the
                      >> > Gepidic kingdom in Pannonia Sirmiensis had been destroyed by the
                      >> > Langobards and Avars, Sevin shows that some of them had been
                      >> > forcefully resettled to Italy, others stayed behind in the Avaria,
                      >> > where a reported incident with the Khan Bajan and the Byzantine
                      >> > emperor shows that they were regarded as subject if not slaves of
                      >> the
                      >> > Avars. Seven argues that some of them may have returned to the old
                      >> > Gebidoios where they are 'attested' in the Masur-Germanic culture
                      >of
                      >> > the 6th/7th century.
                      >> >
                      >> > Under Theoderic, Gepids had also been resettled to southern Gaul
                      >and
                      >> > parts of the Gepids also ended up in the Rhine/Elsass area
                      >according
                      >> > to Sevin. Interestingly, the Gepids did produce coins for a while
                      >in
                      >> > the Sirmium area in the 6th century. In fact, I am in contact with
                      >a
                      >> > numismatist of the Austrian Numismatic Institute in Vienna who
                      >> argues
                      >> > that the issues were in fact rather substantial. Some coins seem
                      >to
                      >> > show the monogramme and initial of Cunimundus.
                      >> >
                      >> > I think most authors nowdays believe that the Gepids formed in the
                      >> > Vistula region out of the Goths who did not move to the Black Sea
                      >> > area in the 2nd/3rd centuries as they are not mentioned by
                      >Tacitus.
                      >> > With regards to their name, I suppose we will never now for sure
                      >> what
                      >> > it means.
                      >> >
                      >> > cheers
                      >> > Dirk
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > > Albury, Ontario
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • czobor@cantacuzino.ro
                      ... This is due to the fact that, after the first (common-Germanic) consonant shift, I.E. *b became *p and I.E. *p became *f. In Indo-European *b was a rare
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 7, 2001
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                        --- In gothic-l@y..., keth@o... wrote:

                        > ...
                        > I see, however, that Gothic has very few words that begin on p.
                        > But there are many words that begin on f.

                        This is due to the fact that, after the first (common-Germanic)
                        consonant shift, I.E. *b became *p and I.E. *p became *f. In
                        Indo-European *b was a rare sound, and consequently *p is a rare
                        sound in Germanic.

                        > I also remember from
                        > Old Norse that the language often vacillates between p and f for
                        > a given sound (e.g. eptir/eftir).

                        According to my handbook of Old-Icelandic, "pt" is only a graphy, and
                        it's pronounced [ft].

                        > Hence it seems to me that one
                        > may equally well look for a Gothic word that begins on an f, and
                        > has a meaning that is related to slowness. But I was unable to
                        > find any. Then it strikes me that sometimes there is also a close
                        > relationship between p and b.

                        Indeed, these sounds are related, being both bilabial stops.
                        But Gmc. *b became p at the beginning of words only in some OHG
                        dialects (e.g. pruoder "brother", part "beard").

                        Regarding Iordanes' word "gepanta", it doesn't look very Gothic or
                        Germanic to me. Not only the -p-, but also -nt- is unusual among the
                        Germanic languages (IE *nt > Gmc. *nd or *nth). Maybe it's a
                        misspelling or a corrupted form.

                        Francisc
                      • Bertil Häggman
                        Keth, Yes, I have provided the text of Jordanes in English. J. refers to a Gepidic word gepanta , which there is, I believe, no record of elsewhere. Jordanes
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 7, 2001
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                          Keth,

                          Yes, I have provided the text of Jordanes in
                          English. J. refers to a Gepidic word "gepanta",
                          which there is, I believe, no record of elsewhere.

                          Jordanes wrote in Getica XVII:94,95:

                          "You surely remember that in the begining I said
                          the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island
                          of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only
                          three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean,
                          namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three
                          ships proved to be slower than the others, as is
                          usually the case, and thus is said to have given the
                          tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means
                          slow. Hence it came to pass that gradually and
                          by corruption the name Gepidae was coined for them
                          by way of reproach. For undoubtedly they too trace
                          their origin from the stock of the Goths, but because,
                          as I have said, gepanta means something slow and
                          stolid, the word Gepidae arose as a gratuitous
                          name of reproach. I do not believe this is very far wrong,
                          for they are slow of thought and too sluggish for
                          quick movement of their bodies."

                          In my opinion Jordanes refers to a word in the
                          Gepidic language, not the Gothic.

                          Standing by my opinion that Gepid originates from
                          Gaut/Gapt I wonder if it is possible linguistically to reconstruct
                          gep- from the Gothic word *beidan.?

                          Gepidically

                          Bertil



                          I don't know if it was already mentioned, but Iordanes explained
                          the origin of the name "Gepidae", in that one of the 3 ships
                          that the original Goths used under their king Berig to emigrate
                          from the island Scanza, was lagging behind the two other ships,
                          and that the name "Gepidae" derives from this; for here Iordanes
                          adds the explanation "nam lingua eorum pigra gepanta dicitur".
                          (pigra = lazy, slow, dull)

                          It is a pity that the number of Gothic words that are found in the
                          Gothic Bible are so few, and that I am unable to find this Gothic
                          word that Iordanes mentions here : gepanta. In fact, I looked
                          both under g as well as under p. The idea of looking under p,
                          derives by analogy from, for example, German, where a word for "fast"
                          (geschwind) is closely related to MHG "swind", because -ge is
                          simply a prefix used to build words, which I assume has been operative
                          in Gothic as well as in Old German. (I don't know what the technical
                          term for such a prefix is. Is there any one who can give a more
                          professional explanation of the phenomenon?)

                          I see, however, that Gothic has very few words that begin on p.
                          But there are many words that begin on f. I also remember from
                          Old Norse that the language often vacillates between p and f for
                          a given sound (e.g. eptir/eftir). Hence it seems to me that one
                          may equally well look for a Gothic word that begins on an f, and
                          has a meaning that is related to slowness. But I was unable to
                          find any. Then it strikes me that sometimes there is also a close
                          relationship between p and b. Hence I should also look for a Gothic
                          word that begins with a b, and means "slow" or something similar.
                          I then recall the Norwegian word for "to wait" = å bie, which
                          I do find in the Gothic dictionary as the verb *beidan. Associated
                          with it are also words like *ga-beidan = to endure, which is actually
                          close enough to the name Gepid that we seek to explain. Could this
                          then be the solution ? (I wonder) ..

                          Another possible solution, that is very similar, lies in the verb *baidjan,
                          that means "to excercise a constraint" (moral), with which there are
                          also associated forms like *gabaidjan.
                        • dirk@smra.co.uk
                          ... and ... Hello Francisc, I am not a linguist, but I noticed that in particular Langobards and Bavarians have often replaced b with p . Thus, it is
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 8, 2001
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                            --- In gothic-l@y..., czobor@c... wrote:
                            > --- In gothic-l@y..., keth@o... wrote:
                            >
                            > > ...
                            > > I see, however, that Gothic has very few words that begin on p.
                            > > But there are many words that begin on f.
                            >
                            > This is due to the fact that, after the first (common-Germanic)
                            > consonant shift, I.E. *b became *p and I.E. *p became *f. In
                            > Indo-European *b was a rare sound, and consequently *p is a rare
                            > sound in Germanic.
                            >
                            > > I also remember from
                            > > Old Norse that the language often vacillates between p and f for
                            > > a given sound (e.g. eptir/eftir).
                            >
                            > According to my handbook of Old-Icelandic, "pt" is only a graphy,
                            and
                            > it's pronounced [ft].
                            >
                            > > Hence it seems to me that one
                            > > may equally well look for a Gothic word that begins on an f, and
                            > > has a meaning that is related to slowness. But I was unable to
                            > > find any. Then it strikes me that sometimes there is also a close
                            > > relationship between p and b.
                            >
                            > Indeed, these sounds are related, being both bilabial stops.
                            > But Gmc. *b became p at the beginning of words only in some OHG
                            > dialects (e.g. pruoder "brother", part "beard").
                            >
                            > Regarding Iordanes' word "gepanta", it doesn't look very Gothic or
                            > Germanic to me. Not only the -p-, but also -nt- is unusual among the
                            > Germanic languages (IE *nt > Gmc. *nd or *nth). Maybe it's a
                            > misspelling or a corrupted form.
                            >
                            > Francisc


                            Hello Francisc,

                            I am not a linguist, but I noticed that in particular Langobards and
                            Bavarians have often replaced 'b' with 'p'. Thus, it is Langobardic
                            and Bavarian 'Luitprant' instead of Luitbrand and Aripert instead of
                            Aribert (Haribert). Also, one of the Langobardic origo legends states
                            that they came from the Elbe near Patersprunna (modern Paderborn). An
                            early 9th c. Bavarian text is called something like 'Wessoprunna
                            Prayer' instead of 'Wessobrun'.

                            This feature is still very much noticeable in modern Bavarian. As
                            Langobards and Bavarians were closely related this is not
                            surprising, but could this also have let to a change in the name of
                            the Gepids from perhaps originally Gebids. The author Heinrich Sevin,
                            argues that it is only sources influenced by the Goths that call them
                            Gebids, while other sources prefer Gebids.

                            cheers
                            Dirk
                          • czobor@cantacuzino.ro
                            ... But what is the difference between the Gepidic and the Gothic languages? As I understood, the Gepids are generally regarded as a branch of the Goths. And
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 8, 2001
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                              --- In gothic-l@y..., Bertil Häggman <mvk575b@t...> wrote:
                              > ...
                              > In my opinion Jordanes refers to a word in the
                              > Gepidic language, not the Gothic.
                              > ...

                              But what is the difference between the Gepidic and the Gothic
                              languages?
                              As I understood, the Gepids are generally regarded as a branch of
                              the Goths. And the Gepidic language was probably very closely related
                              to Gothic, or even just a dialect of Gothic. Or maybe I'm wrong?

                              Francisc
                            • czobor@cantacuzino.ro
                              Hello, Dirk I m not a linguist too, it s just a hobby. The replacement of Germanic b with p is a consequence of the second (High-German) consonant shift,
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 8, 2001
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                                Hello, Dirk

                                I'm not a linguist too, it's just a hobby.
                                The replacement of Germanic 'b' with 'p' is a consequence of the
                                second (High-German) consonant shift, and it was most widespread in
                                the Bavarian dialect of High-German (here we can find such forms like
                                peigira "Bavarian", pruodar "brother", part "beard" etc.) In the other
                                High German dialects, we find d>t, but not b>p (and thus we have in
                                Standard German Bayer, Bruder, Bart, etc.). Langobardian has also
                                participated in the second consonant shift, therefore also in this
                                language occurs the shift b>p.
                                But there is no trace of such a shift in East-Germanic languages, such
                                as Gothic or Gepidic. (It is true that in the Crimean Gothic words of
                                Busbecq's list we can find words with consonants shifted as in High
                                German, like 'plut' "blood", but here it could be an influence in some
                                way of High German. But even if we admit such a consonant shift in
                                16th century's Crimean Gothic, there is no evidence thereof in Gothic
                                or Gepidic in the first half of the first millenium).

                                Francisc

                                --- In gothic-l@y..., dirk@s... wrote:
                                > ...
                                > Hello Francisc,
                                >
                                > I am not a linguist, but I noticed that in particular Langobards and
                                > Bavarians have often replaced 'b' with 'p'. Thus, it is Langobardic
                                > and Bavarian 'Luitprant' instead of Luitbrand and Aripert instead of
                                > Aribert (Haribert). Also, one of the Langobardic origo legends
                                states
                                > that they came from the Elbe near Patersprunna (modern Paderborn).
                                An
                                > early 9th c. Bavarian text is called something like 'Wessoprunna
                                > Prayer' instead of 'Wessobrun'.
                                >
                                > This feature is still very much noticeable in modern Bavarian. As
                                > Langobards and Bavarians were closely related this is not
                                > surprising, but could this also have let to a change in the name of
                                > the Gepids from perhaps originally Gebids. The author Heinrich
                                Sevin,
                                > argues that it is only sources influenced by the Goths that call
                                them
                                > Gebids, while other sources prefer Gebids.
                                >
                                > cheers
                                > Dirk
                              • Bertil Häggman
                                Francisc, Am trying to recall Gepidic words except gepanta, if that ever existed. Fastida was a Gepidic king. Frohila and Feva were two other Gepidic kings.
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 8, 2001
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                                  Francisc,

                                  Am trying to recall Gepidic words except gepanta,
                                  if that ever existed. Fastida was a Gepidic king. Frohila
                                  and Feva were two other Gepidic kings. Later there was
                                  Ardaric. Kunimund was a famous Gepidic king.

                                  That is all. Interested in further Gepidic words. Cannot
                                  say anything else on the Gepidic language.

                                  Gepidically

                                  Bertil

                                  But what is the difference between the Gepidic and the Gothic
                                  languages?
                                  As I understood, the Gepids are generally regarded as a branch of
                                  the Goths. And the Gepidic language was probably very closely related
                                  to Gothic, or even just a dialect of Gothic. Or maybe I'm wrong?
                                • czobor@cantacuzino.ro
                                  ... But even these few words are suggesting that Gepidic was very similar to Gothic: Frohila has the Gothic diminutive suffix -ila. Maybe it corresponds to a
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 9, 2001
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                                    --- In gothic-l@y..., Bertil Häggman <mvk575b@t...> wrote:
                                    > Francisc,
                                    >
                                    > Am trying to recall Gepidic words except gepanta,
                                    > if that ever existed. Fastida was a Gepidic king. Frohila
                                    > and Feva were two other Gepidic kings. Later there was
                                    > Ardaric. Kunimund was a famous Gepidic king.
                                    >
                                    > That is all. Interested in further Gepidic words. Cannot
                                    > say anything else on the Gepidic language.
                                    >
                                    > Gepidically
                                    >
                                    > Bertil
                                    >


                                    But even these few words are suggesting that Gepidic was very similar
                                    to Gothic:

                                    Frohila has the Gothic diminutive suffix -ila. Maybe it corresponds to
                                    a Gothic *fraujila or *frawila "little master" (from frauja "master,
                                    lord")
                                    Ardaric has the Gothic ending -ric, in fact -reiks "ruler", like in
                                    Alaric, Theodoric, etc.
                                    Kunimund is composed of kuni (Gothic "race, tribe"), with the ending
                                    -mund ("protector"?), like in Gothic names (Thorismund).

                                    And the fact that the Gepids are considered as branch of the Goths
                                    doesn't suggest that their languages were similar?

                                    Francisc
                                  • Andy
                                    Does anyone know of a monograph about the Gepids?
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 11, 2013
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                                      Does anyone know of a monograph about the Gepids?
                                    • ingemarn2000
                                      Not a monograph but an article suggesting the origin and formation of the Gepids. Okulicz-Kozaryn, Jerzy, 1991,Das Gräberfeld von Weklice. Zur
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jun 12, 2013
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                                        Not a monograph but an article suggesting the origin and formation of the Gepids.

                                        Okulicz-Kozaryn, Jerzy, 1991,Das Gräberfeld von Weklice. Zur Besiedlungsgeschichte des Weichselraums in der römischen Kaiserzeit, Archeologia, Vol. XV, s. 115-127.

                                        Best
                                        Ingemar


                                        --- In gothic-l@yahoogroups.com, "Andy" <atfear@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Does anyone know of a monograph about the Gepids?
                                        >
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