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Re: [gothic-l] Weder-Geats

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  • keth@online.no
    ... Maybe in the same way that the Cartagians (PUNIC wars), were of the same origin as the Phoenicians? Other similarities: Rugiland - Migration Period
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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      Anthony Appleyard wrote:

      >We also seem to be back at that old query: were the Geats / Gautar the same
      >people as the Goths?


      Maybe in the same way that the Cartagians (PUNIC wars), were of
      the same origin as the Phoenicians?

      Other similarities:

      Rugiland - Migration Period Niederösterreich
      Rogaland - SW Norway (Jordanes -- Viking Age -- Now)
      Rügen - Baltic coast (how old is the name?)



      Also, we have composite appelatives, such as:

      danr = man from Denmark
      Eydanir = danes who live on islands.
      rygr = man from Rogaland
      holm-rygir = island dwellers of Rogaland.
      Eygotaland = the danish isles
      Reidgotaland = legendary land, either Jutland or Norther Poland
      or in that neighborhood.

      Reidgotaland could be that part of Gotaland where horses are used for transport,
      whereas Eygotaland could be that part where ships are used for transport.

      Further examples:
      Vestrgautar - people from Västergötaland (Sweden)
      Vestr-Agdir - western part of Agdir (s. Norway)
      Austragdir - eastern part of Agdir (S. norway)


      Such designations all refer to the same basic word,
      but are qualified by geographic/topographic first parts.
      Jordanes tells us that the root word is always the name of a group of
      people (tribe).

      Thus, the time-tried nomenclature suggests that they were originally
      the same group or related groups. But I don't know about

      goti = man from Gotland/Götaland (plural gotnar?)
      Gotland = the island
      Gotaland = Eygotaland + Reidgotaland?
      Gautland = todays Götaland.

      (all quotes from the ON dictionary)

      There appears to be a difference between Gotaland and Gautaland (= not the same)
      (but as you go far back in time it probably would be - the question is how far?)

      Best regards
      Keth
    • sig
      Dear Frank, ... Yes, very much so. It s for good reason called the Island of Roses (Gotland is built on lime stone in contrast to the rest of Sweden) and it is
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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        Dear Frank,

        > >Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?
        > I don't know, though I don't think that Gotland is quite South Sweden :)

        Yes, very much so. It's for good reason called the Island of
        Roses (Gotland is built on lime stone in contrast to the rest of
        Sweden) and it is surrounded by water that never freezes. It is
        the number one vacationland in Sweden. You'll find it right to the
        east of Vastergötland in south-central Sweden.

        As everyone who ever visited this great island can testify, this
        is "lamb" territory. There are "lamba-gardi" erected in the south
        of the island in ancient style as part of their cultural heritage.
        Yes, they still use "lamb", so Gotish)
        for sheep!

        Scotland+North England are roughly co-latitudinal with Denmark
        and South Sweden.
        There are more Swedes living there than there are Danes I think.

        Why don't you invest in a map :^))

        Fåraktligen (sheepishly)

        Seigmund

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tore Gannholm
        Frank, From the younger Bronze age Gotland has a needle with a ram head. Regards Tore ... Onela s lake battle is probable the Baltic between Gotland and the
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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          Frank,
          From the younger Bronze age Gotland has a needle with a ram head.
          Regards Tore


          >> Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm@...> wrote (Subject: Re:
          >>Beowolf--the Goth?):-
          >> > Weder is a ram. the one year old sheep male. ... The ram is the national
          >> > symbol of Gotland. Already in the 13th century it was the official seal
          >>of
          >> > the Gotlandic republic. You can see it on http://gotland.luma.com
          >
          >Hmm. A possibility I had never thought of before (not knowing any
          >Gotlanders, y'see . . .;)) But, just off the cuff, how far back before its
          >official attestation could we extend the existence of the Ram symbol? And
          >would an Anglo-Saxon audience have known that? And I think Widsith makes a
          >mention of Onela's lake battle that might correspond with Southern Sweden,
          >though I know I'm getting some names wrong . . .

          Onela's lake battle is probable the Baltic between Gotland and the coast of
          Uppland. Part of the land outside Stockholm was below sealevel




          >
          >>Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?
          >
          >I don't know, though I don't think that Gotland is quite South Sweden :)
          >
          >
          >>We also seem to be back at that old query: were the Geats / Gautar the same
          >>people as the Goths?
          >
          >And what's the old answer?
          >
          >Cheers,
          >Frank
        • Frank Kermes
          ... Hmm. A possibility I had never thought of before (not knowing any Gotlanders, y see . . .;)) But, just off the cuff, how far back before its official
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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            > Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm@...> wrote (Subject: Re:
            >Beowolf--the Goth?):-
            > > Weder is a ram. the one year old sheep male. ... The ram is the national
            > > symbol of Gotland. Already in the 13th century it was the official seal
            >of
            > > the Gotlandic republic. You can see it on http://gotland.luma.com

            Hmm. A possibility I had never thought of before (not knowing any
            Gotlanders, y'see . . .;)) But, just off the cuff, how far back before its
            official attestation could we extend the existence of the Ram symbol? And
            would an Anglo-Saxon audience have known that? And I think Widsith makes a
            mention of Onela's lake battle that might correspond with Southern Sweden,
            though I know I'm getting some names wrong . . .

            >Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?

            I don't know, though I don't think that Gotland is quite South Sweden :)


            >We also seem to be back at that old query: were the Geats / Gautar the same
            >people as the Goths?

            And what's the old answer?

            Cheers,
            Frank
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          • Frank Kermes
            ... Hey, thanks. Though I was being facetious and asking more in a nationalistic sense than geographical . . . More of my silliness invading the discussion.
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 15, 2001
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              >Dear Frank,
              >
              > > >Is there an unusually large amount of sheep-breeding in south Sweden?
              > > I don't know, though I don't think that Gotland is quite South Sweden :)
              >
              > Yes, very much so. It's for good reason called the Island of
              >Roses (Gotland is built on lime stone in contrast to the rest of
              >Sweden) and it is surrounded by water that never freezes. It is
              >the number one vacationland in Sweden. You'll find it right to the
              >east of Vasterg�tland in south-central Sweden.
              >
              > As everyone who ever visited this great island can testify, this
              >is "lamb" territory. There are "lamba-gardi" erected in the south
              >of the island in ancient style as part of their cultural heritage.
              >Yes, they still use "lamb", so Gotish)
              >for sheep!
              >
              > Scotland+North England are roughly co-latitudinal with Denmark
              >and South Sweden.
              >There are more Swedes living there than there are Danes I think.
              >

              Hey, thanks. Though I was being facetious and asking more in a
              nationalistic sense than geographical . . . More of my silliness invading
              the discussion.

              > Why don't you invest in a map :^))

              I have several. It's just that laziness prevents me from actually
              _consulting_ them.

              Cheers,
              Frank
              >
              >F�raktligen (sheepishly)
              >
              >Seigmund
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

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